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Old February 1, 2008, 04:46 AM   #1
Chris Phelps
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Anyone get decent accuracy from an SKS?

Has anyone here been able to get decent accuracy from an SKS? I've been thinking about picking one up... they are cheap enough. I don't want my target to look like it got hit with birdshot, though.
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Old February 1, 2008, 04:56 AM   #2
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I had a brand new yugo without the grenade launcher, and a chinese norinco. Both did fien with wolf. Groups of about 4 or 4.5 inches at 100 was the norm. It's no match rifle, but I found it acceptable for paper punching...
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Old February 1, 2008, 05:06 AM   #3
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4.5 @ 100y? Ouch.
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Old February 1, 2008, 05:10 AM   #4
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Haha I know. But I'm shooting JP Barnaul most of the time. I imagine a handloaded 7.62X39 would do better. I never had a scope on either one either. The Irons are crude to say the least, so your mileage may vary. What is it you want to use the rifle for anyway? I've taken a deer or two with mine. They make a great brush gun when loaded with SP ammo, and a proper capacity mag. It's no m1A for sure.
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Old February 1, 2008, 06:12 AM   #5
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I put TechSights on my "unissued" condition Yugo and it will do 3 MOA regularly, or about 2 MOA for three rounds from a sandbagged rest at 100 yards, if I do my part. Believe it or not, I've shot beer bottles at 200 yards--two bottles in three shots. I then quit when I was ahead and haven't bothered to repeat the feat.

All of this was with Wolf 122 gr FMJ.
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Old February 1, 2008, 07:10 AM   #6
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I am considering adding it to the "coyote rifle" side of my collection. (coyotes are pretty much all I hunt, so it's either 'target rifle' or 'coyote rifle') In order for it to work in that capacity (for me to be happy, anyway), it would have to shoot at least under 2 moa. the closer to 1 moa, the better. I would imagine it just isn't possible, without a ton of money, to get a sub 1 moa SKS. I was reading a writeup I found via Google where someone modded an SKS and got it shooting 1.5 moa. At that point, though, it looks like he had about $400 total invested in it. Who knows. I was just wondering if that was common, or if he just got lucky.
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Old February 1, 2008, 07:15 AM   #7
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I could routinly get 2" or so groups at 100 and 150 yds with my Russian sks with cheap ammo and a cheap scope.My Norinco sks-m is about the same.Thats plenty acurate for me.
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Old February 1, 2008, 07:16 AM   #8
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I took my VG condition Yugo out last week. Shot it Standing/Prone/ and braced prone, and in all three positions was holding 1-1.5" groups at 50 yds.
That was with Wolf.

It is rumored that the Yugos/russian/and Albanian SKS are the most accurate.
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Old February 1, 2008, 12:04 PM   #9
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I can get 3-4" groups at 100yds from a benchrest with my Yugo. You have to remember, these rifles were never built for serious tackdriving accuracy, and most all ammo you find is going to be cheap mass produced stuff. The open sights are also not the best for longer range accuracy either, nothing like an AR or M1A.
The trick is finding one with a really good barrel. Corrosive ammo use has ruined more than one SKS barrel, and for years that's all they used. I think it'd make a great coyote rifle, but I'd limit my shots to less than 100yds and try to find one with a really good bore, and use good ammo. Also, very little scope options work well for the SKS, IMHO, and I've tried a lot of the. I'm now back to iron sights. At 75yds or less it shoots outstanding. Further than that.....my eyesight combined with the sights make it more challenging.
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Old February 1, 2008, 02:22 PM   #10
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Some people get too carried away with bench accuracy.

If a SKS is capable of shooting 5 inch groups at 100 yards it is more than accurate enough to deer hunt with. It is more than accurate enough for combat. It will hit about any real worls target you need to hit at closer ranges.

A rifleman that knows how to shoot a 5MOA rifle is a lot more dangerous in the real world than most bench shooters with their one hole rifles.
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Old February 1, 2008, 02:36 PM   #11
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My yugo will put 10 rounds in 2" at 100 yds. Verified by ABNDOC. I modified it by cutting off the garbage at the muzzle and re-crowning the muzzle. I put it in a fiberglas stock (American Accuracy) and glassbedded it. free floated the barrel added a 6X cheapo scope and mount and locked the mount to the action with set screws. When I can get some brass I will handload for it and I expect 1 MOA.

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Old February 1, 2008, 02:36 PM   #12
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3-4 MOA is good for an SKS with off the shelf ammo. Any claims about much better than that is usually luck or wishful thinking.
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Old February 1, 2008, 03:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Some people get too carried away with bench accuracy.
Agree

Quote:
capable of shooting 5 inch groups at 100 yards it is more than accurate enough to deer hunt with
Disagree. If under the best conditions at a range with sand bags, you only know it is going to hit somewhere in a 5" circle, your margin for error under field conditions is very small on a deer.

Quote:
A rifleman that knows how to shoot a 5MOA rifle is a lot more dangerous in the real world than most bench shooters with their one hole rifles.


And a "rifleman" that knows how to shoot a 1MOA rifle is a lot more dangerous than a rifleman that knows how to shoot a 5MOA rifle....
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Old February 1, 2008, 03:39 PM   #14
Chris Phelps
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Quote:
Some people get too carried away with bench accuracy.

If a SKS is capable of shooting 5 inch groups at 100 yards it is more than accurate enough to deer hunt with. It is more than accurate enough for combat. It will hit about any real worls target you need to hit at closer ranges.

A rifleman that knows how to shoot a 5MOA rifle is a lot more dangerous in the real world than most bench shooters with their one hole rifles.
No offense, but... that doesn't even come close to making sense. Especially considering I never said anything about deer OR combat.

If the rifleman knows how to shoot a 5 moa rifle with any accuracy, he would have to be able to predict the flight path of the bullet before even firing the rifle, then aiming in the right place to compensate. If the rifleman is a human benchrest, he still isn't going to do better than 5" @ 100 yards with a 5 moa rifle. The only way physically possible for your scenerio to hold true in your comparison would be if you were talking about a benchrest shooter that doesn't do well under stress that was placed in a combat situation. Combat is not what I would call a "real world" situation. To me, "real world" refers to any practical hunting application of a rifle. A Benchrest shooter will do 100 times better with a tackdriver than any "Real Rifleman" with a 5 MOA rifle at 100 yards and greater.

Last but not least... if you want to use a 5moa rifle to hunt deer, that is your business.. but it may not be a clean kill. If you are aiming for the chest area at 100 yards, there is a chance the bullet could pass right in front of the deer (Or graze it's chest), or you could hit it in the leg or something.

Any way you slide the cheese, a 5 moa rifle, regardless of who is holding it, will still shoot no better than 5 moa.


Quote:
You have to remember, these rifles were never built for serious tackdriving accuracy, and most all ammo you find is going to be cheap mass produced stuff.
Just because they weren't built for it doesn't mean people haven't found ways to improve the accuracy. Hornady makes bullets that they claim sub MOA accuracy with... provided your rifle is capable of it as well. (I've never heard of a sub moa 7.62 x 39mm, but that's okay.)
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Old February 1, 2008, 04:20 PM   #15
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Isn't the Army standard for rifles 4 MOA?

Anyways, not about the SKS, but concerning bench groups from arfcom:

Quote:
Originally Posted By Molon:
The Trouble With 3-Shot Groups

(The distant prequel to The Trouble With Tribbles)


As our story begins, we find our Hero sitting down to the shooting bench at the 100 yard line at his local range. He is a real Internet Commando. He has watched the movie Heat 87 times, is registered on all of the important Internet firearms forums, knows the difference between a “clip” and a “magazine” and attends every local gun show without fail.

His latest acquisition from the local gun show is a 16” no-name Frankengun that originally belonged to a Delta Force operator who was at the Battle of Mogadishu. (He could tell you the name of the operator, but then he’d have to k……well, you know.) The seller at the gun show let our Hero in on another secret too. Eugene Stoner himself helped the Delta operator assemble this AR-15.

Our hero settles into position on the bench and fires his first 3-shot group. (He only fires 3-shot groups because everyone on the Internet knows you only have to fire 3-shot groups to test your rifle and ammo.)

His first group forms a nice little triangle at the bottom of the 10-ring. Our Hero just knew this was going to be a good day. After all, he was using that XM193 ammunition. A former Seal who was selling beef jerky at the gun show had told our Hero that the Seals used ammo just like XM193 in Viet Nam and that a single shot in the buttocks from this ammo would “blow your head clean off!”

At the cease fire the Commando checks his first target. (Our Hero’s targets are NRA High Power type targets reduced for 100 yards. The X-ring measures 1.5” and the 10-ring measures 3.5”). Much to his satisfaction, his first group measures 1.16”, almost minute of angle! Now most Internet Commando wannabees would have stopped right there and gone home and spent the next 3 hours posting threads on the Internet about their great accomplishment, but not our Hero. He makes the decision….to fire a second group!

group one
www.box.net/shared/static/aiqgob0cvv.jpg

Our Hero has read reports of other Internet Commandos who have been able to achieve sub-minute of angle groups using XM193. After all, this ammo uses “Full Metal Jacket” bullets and is made to “Mil-spec.”

Our Hero carefully watches the bench-rest shooter three lanes down and only fires immediately after the bench-rester does. He does this for three shots and then checks his target at the next cease fire.

Our Hero measures this target three times just to be sure. The group measures 0.93”! Hooah, a sub-minute of angle group! Our Hero is now one of the few, the proud, the real Internet Commandos who can claim to shoot sub-minute of angle groups using XM193!

group two
www.box.net/shared/static/2huoy370my.jpg

There’s just one little problem with that second group our Hero fired. It is centered in a different location on the target than the first one. The group is centered 0.12” above the center of the target and the first group is centered 1.44” below the center of the target. Hmmm…

Well our Hero is a real Internet Commando so he can’t let details bother him. After all, sub-minute of angle is sub-minute of angle!

As our Hero starts to pack up his targets, something in the back of his mind starts to nag at him. He recalls the reports of the other Internet Commandos. They didn’t just shoot sub-minute of angle groups with XM193; they did it “all day long.”

Well, not wishing to be looked down upon by the other Internet Commandos our Hero decides to shoot one more 3-shoot group. After all, if his carbine and ammo could shoot two, sub-minute of angle groups, they could surely do it “all day long.”

So, our Hero settles back into position and again taking his cue from the bench-rester fires a third 3-shot group. Upon retrieving his third target and measuring the group our Hero can not believe his eyes. The group measures 2.5”! How can this be possible? He was using XM193 and not just any XM193. It was the fabled “LOT #3,” the most accurate and hard to come by of all the lots, yet this third group was larger than the first two groups combined! Hmmm… Our Hero wonders how he can ever show his avatar on an internet forum again after firing such a group with XM193.

group three
www.box.net/shared/static/bxxidqe21b.jpg

Then, slowly our Hero starts to recall a word he has heard mentioned many times before on his favorite Internet forum. It starts with an F. F…Fl…Flyer! That’s it, flyer! That low shot down at seven o’clock on the target is a flyer! It’s not the fault of the gun or the ammo, it’s a flyer. It's caused by user error, the loose nut behind the stock, the wind, the sun or any other excuse that can be dreamt of in your philosophy, but not the rifle or ammo.

The flyer is something to be discounted as if it never happened. (Why be concerned with reality when you are an Internet Commando?) Since that shot is discounted, why not discount that whole group as if it never happened? (After all, isn’t that what an Internet Commando does?) Our Hero decides to discount the entire group and throws the target in the trash. He makes a solemn vow to never mention this group to anyone. After all, he is a real Internet Commando.

Upon returning home our Hero makes all the usual posts on the Internet about his sub-minute of angle groups using XM193. True to his solemn vow, he makes no mention of his 2.5” group. At no time does he mention that these groups were 3-shot groups. Nor does he make any mention of the fact that the groups were centered in different locations on the target.

Our Hero ends his day wondering if his grandson, or great-grandson or even great great-grandson will remember the accomplishments of the real Internet Commandos or if their contributions to the shooting world will eventually be lost in time? He even wonders what his progeny might someday be named, James or possibly Tiberius? Hmmm…


Dedicated to DK-Prof for his shining example of "truth in accuracy reporting" in these two threads:

How Accurate is XM193?

Apparently, I suck at shooting.
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Old February 1, 2008, 04:46 PM   #16
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The best I've gotten was 4 MOA, but I've seen more than a few people get 1.5 MOA with them http://www.therallypoint.org/forum/i...p?topic=1671.0
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Old February 1, 2008, 05:50 PM   #17
Bazooka Joe71
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I can consistantly shoot ~4moa with my yugo as well...That's with wolf and some laquer coated russian stuff that I don't know the name of.
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Old February 1, 2008, 06:46 PM   #18
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I had a new, unissued Russian SKS. With iron sights, it would do about 2 inch groups at 50yds with most commercial ammo. My eyes are not that young and I never scoped it. It was okay, but nothing special. I sold it at a large profit.
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Old February 1, 2008, 10:32 PM   #19
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While my SKS is generally accurate, I almost never shoot it off a bench. ABNDOC and I go out to a place we know and shoot at targets of opportunity.(Cans and stuff) The SKS is a hoot to shoot and we all have a great time banging away with cheap surplus ammo. My 2 sons and I all own SKS's and we can put up a pretty good imitation of a rifle squad when we want to.

I don't think I have ever owned a gun that was more pure fun than the SKS. Get one and shoot the bejabbers out of it.
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Old February 1, 2008, 11:34 PM   #20
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I get 2moa with my Yugo in as new condition when I got it.

It was closer to 4moa, but the best thing you can do with an SKS is bed the action properly to take out the wiggle in the stock up that will kill your accuracy.

Sorting out the trigger group also helps. Kivaari does great work on the trigger to smoothen and lighten up the pull. He does a great job if you don't want to do it yourself at a very reasonable price.

http://www.kivaari.com/index.cfm/Welcome

Changing the stock can help too and there plenty of replacement gas tubes that minimise problems.

Finally putting on decent sights will really help. I highly recommend the Tech-sight TS200. I put it on mine and it really helps the accuracy. It hard to beat this and it keeps it zero nicely.

http://www.tech-sights.com/

Some people have got under an inch with hand loads out of their SKS. Not bad for a piece of cheap commie steel.
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Old February 1, 2008, 11:39 PM   #21
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This argument has two parts; 1. Is the SKS capable of MOA accuracy? 2. Is the 7.62x39mm round capable of MOA accuracy? For the first question, consider that the SKS has a rear locking bolt and the entire gas system on the barrel, both problems for consistent barrel harmonics...accuracy. Second, despite having a case similar to the case used for the 6mm PPC benchrest round, I have yet to see anyone achieve similar results from this round. Do a search on the 7.62x39 and you can join the argument. I didn't know these things when I tried to wring the best accuracy from my SKS's, and I have a machine shop. I have two heavy barrel SKS's that average about 1.25 MOA with Lapua FMJ, which I'm not sure is still available, I could never beat that with my handloads, and believe me, I tried everything.
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Old February 2, 2008, 09:05 AM   #22
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You benchrest guys are a strange breed. What good does a rifle that shoots one hole groups do you in the field when you can't even hit the berm without your bench and sandbags?

A good SKS will be 100% reliable and even more reliable than some $1500 US made rifles.

They are more than accurate enough to hit any real world target that you would ever need to hit at the ranges the rifle is designed to be used.

I own Garands AR's and a high dollar M1a as well as a few SKS rifles. Only the SKS rifles have been 100% reliable and have never broken any parts.

I shoot highpower and I can hold the ten ring on the 600 yard target with my AR or M1a but if the **** hits the fan I intend to grab my SKS.
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Old February 2, 2008, 09:15 AM   #23
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My favorite SKS is a "paratrooper" with a synthetic stock and a better than average trigger.

It will group from 2 to 4 inches at 100 yards from prone with a tight sling.

I can bust water filled milk jugs at 300 yards all day long with it.

I can hit good size targets with it out to 500 yards.

No one would want me shooting at them at 600 or 700 with it.

I can do this with an "inaccurate" SKS because I learned a long tome ago to forget a bench even exists.

And they day you guys learn that important lesson you will also learn to shoot.
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Old February 2, 2008, 11:18 AM   #24
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Quote:
Groups of about 4 or 4.5 inches at 100 was the norm.
I have to agree with that. I have about a dozen SKS of various manufactures. Then again, they all have open sights.
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Old February 2, 2008, 11:33 AM   #25
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Quote:
A rifleman that knows how to shoot a 5MOA rifle is a lot more dangerous in the real world than most bench shooters with their one hole rifles.
MythBuster I really have to agree with you. Some of these c**t hair accuracy guys really amuse me with their lack of common since. If I was going to put a round through a guys left eye rather than his right eye and 500 yards, then I might want a rifle that could do that. But I'd want a range finder, a spotter, a wind call, a sand bagged position, etc. In my opinion based upon my combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, I have never seen a shot made at more than 200 yards. Most will be made at 100 yards or less. Reliability is so much more important than c**t hair accuracy. We were always envious of the AK47's as they rarely needed cleaning, and they were plenty accurate at 300 yards when the principles of marksmanship are applied. As for sniping, if one has time to hide, and has the ability to egress with out being killed, a 1moa or less angle rifle could prove useful. But, the 1moa makes no difference whatsoever if there is a gust of wind 200 yards away that one did not feel at ones position. My point is, most kills occur at 100 yards or less. A few dedicated few make kills further away, however, in general, this is not practical, and just DOES NOT occur. I'll take an SKS or an AK-47 any day over an M-16. More knock down power, and plenty accurate if you know how to shoot worth a dookie without sandbags or artificial support.
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