proper ball size for .44 1851 Pietta

M14MSgt · January 28, 2008, 04:35 PM

The manual says to use a .451 diameter ball...but tried and won't fit. Too big I guess. Can't even get it to seat enough to get it under the rammer. Will a ..440 (.45) work?

sundance44s · January 28, 2008, 05:40 PM

Sounds like you may have a 36 cal Navy ...the .451 ball is the smallest of the revolver 44 cal. Take look at the stampings on the barrel ..some where its stamped 44 cal or 36 cal .

Hawg · January 28, 2008, 06:31 PM

.454 is the usual size for a .44, .451 usually doesn't shave any lead. Are you sure the gun is a .44? Are you sure the balls you have are .451?

mykeal · January 28, 2008, 07:58 PM

Well, wait a minute. What's the definition of "it won't fit"? A .451 ball will appear to not fit into the chamber of a .44 cal gun as it is intentionally oversize. If you don't know that it has to be forced in, you'd easily make the mistake of thinking it's too big.

The ball will be oversize for the chamber, but just slightly. If you just set it in the chamber mouth it will almost go halfway in. That's intentional; the ball should be slightly oversize and be a press fit into the chamber, shaving a small ring of lead as it is forced into place.

If the ball fits less than 1/3 of the way in the chamber then it may well be that the gun is not a .44 cal. The caliber should be stamped on the barrel.

Chris_B · January 28, 2008, 08:00 PM

get calipers from Home Depot, measure ball

Hawg · January 28, 2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Well, wait a minute. What's the definition of "it won't fit"?

He said it wouldn't even fit under the ram.

CraigC · January 28, 2008, 09:09 PM

Since when is the 1851 Navy a .44???

M14MSgt · January 28, 2008, 09:15 PM

it is a .44 and a .451 does not set 1/2 down. I cannot even rotate the cylinder so a ball is beneath the rammer. Midway USA sells the Pietta 1851 Navy in .44 caliber as well as .36.

jwhistler · January 28, 2008, 09:19 PM

I've always thought that (navy) meant 36 cal and that (army) was 44 cal

Hawg · January 28, 2008, 09:19 PM

Yeah, Pietta makes a 51 in .44 but they're the only ones that do. Colt never did. A black mark against Pietta but I'll forgiv'em for it.

Hawg · January 28, 2008, 09:20 PM

Quote:

it is a .44 and a .451 does not set 1/2 down. I cannot even rotate the cylinder so a ball is beneath the rammer. Midway USA sells the Pietta 1851 Navy in .44 caliber as well as .36.

Sounds like you got a .36.

M14MSgt · January 28, 2008, 11:46 PM

I can only go on what is plainly written on the barrell which is BLACKPOWDER ONLY .44 CAL. It was listed on Midway's website as a .44, and it says in plain lettering .44. Are you suggesting Pietta manufactured a .36 and then engraved .44 on it? I suppose that could be the case. I am just hesitant to try and fire it if the ball is too large for the chamber and barrel. That is why I went down to the size ball I purchased.

l.cutler · January 29, 2008, 11:39 AM

I am a bit confused. The ball is not supposed to go halfway in without being rammed. There should be plenty of space under the rammer. Are you loading one chamber at a time, then ramming that one chamber or trying to place a ball in each chamber before ramming? I believe Cabela's website has a video on loading the blackpowder revolver, you may want to check it out.

CraigC · January 29, 2008, 01:13 PM

I believe you in regards to the markings but markings don't make it so. Pietta's are not regarded as the highest of quality or QC. It would not suprise me if your gun has a .44 barrel but a .36 cylinder. Stranger things have happened. Luckily Midway's customer service is excellent if it is indeed the case.

mykeal · January 29, 2008, 03:44 PM

I just happen to have both a .36 cal 1851 Navy and a .44 cal 1851 Navy, plus a .451 round ball (I miked the ball to check it). I put the ball in the chamber mouth of both pistols with the loading lever retracted:

and with the loading lever deployed:

In the case of the .44 the ball goes in just short of halfway (I. Cutler, please note I said ALMOST half way) and in the case of the .36 it's about 1/3 of the way in. Also note there is plenty of space under the loading lever for the cylinder to rotate into loading position in both cases.

Hope this helps.

l.cutler · January 29, 2008, 04:49 PM

Mykeal, I was referring to the original poster who said a .451 would not sit half way in. I agree 100% with your post. Nice photos, ought to help clarify things.

mykeal · January 29, 2008, 06:42 PM

I.Cutler - I understand and apologize.

M14MSgt · January 29, 2008, 08:54 PM

my situation more resembles the .44 photos.

mykeal · January 29, 2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

my situation more resembles the .44 photos.

Ok, if that's the case, the .451 ball should fit in your revolver. I do not understand the issue with the loading lever. If it looks like this:

then it should easily fit under the loading lever like this:

What am I missing?

jwhistler · January 30, 2008, 04:31 AM

do you think he may have to much powder in the cylinder for the ball to seat

sundance44s · January 30, 2008, 02:21 PM

That was my next question ....how much powder did you put in that hole ??

armedandsafe · January 30, 2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

do you think he may have to much powder in the cylinder for the ball to seat

OR, if he is using a wad, that wad must be tamped first.

Pops

January 28, 2008, 04:35 PM	#1
M14MSgt Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2007 Location: Lancaster CA Posts: 105	proper ball size for .44 1851 Pietta The manual says to use a .451 diameter ball...but tried and won't fit. Too big I guess. Can't even get it to seat enough to get it under the rammer. Will a ..440 (.45) work?

January 29, 2008, 03:44 PM	#15
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	A picture is worth a thousand words... I just happen to have both a .36 cal 1851 Navy and a .44 cal 1851 Navy, plus a .451 round ball (I miked the ball to check it). I put the ball in the chamber mouth of both pistols with the loading lever retracted: and with the loading lever deployed: In the case of the .44 the ball goes in just short of halfway (I. Cutler, please note I said ALMOST half way) and in the case of the .36 it's about 1/3 of the way in. Also note there is plenty of space under the loading lever for the cylinder to rotate into loading position in both cases. Hope this helps.

January 28, 2008, 05:40 PM	#2
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	Sounds like you may have a 36 cal Navy ...the .451 ball is the smallest of the revolver 44 cal. Take look at the stampings on the barrel ..some where its stamped 44 cal or 36 cal .

January 28, 2008, 06:31 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	.454 is the usual size for a .44, .451 usually doesn't shave any lead. Are you sure the gun is a .44? Are you sure the balls you have are .451?

January 28, 2008, 07:58 PM	#4
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Well, wait a minute. What's the definition of "it won't fit"? A .451 ball will appear to not fit into the chamber of a .44 cal gun as it is intentionally oversize. If you don't know that it has to be forced in, you'd easily make the mistake of thinking it's too big. The ball will be oversize for the chamber, but just slightly. If you just set it in the chamber mouth it will almost go halfway in. That's intentional; the ball should be slightly oversize and be a press fit into the chamber, shaving a small ring of lead as it is forced into place. If the ball fits less than 1/3 of the way in the chamber then it may well be that the gun is not a .44 cal. The caliber should be stamped on the barrel.

January 28, 2008, 08:00 PM	#5
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	get calipers from Home Depot, measure ball

January 28, 2008, 09:09 PM	#7
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	Since when is the 1851 Navy a .44???

January 28, 2008, 09:15 PM	#8
M14MSgt Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2007 Location: Lancaster CA Posts: 105	it is a .44 and a .451 does not set 1/2 down. I cannot even rotate the cylinder so a ball is beneath the rammer. Midway USA sells the Pietta 1851 Navy in .44 caliber as well as .36.

January 28, 2008, 09:19 PM	#9
jwhistler Junior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: fort worth Posts: 4	I've always thought that (navy) meant 36 cal and that (army) was 44 cal

January 28, 2008, 11:46 PM	#12
M14MSgt Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2007 Location: Lancaster CA Posts: 105	I can only go on what is plainly written on the barrell which is BLACKPOWDER ONLY .44 CAL. It was listed on Midway's website as a .44, and it says in plain lettering .44. Are you suggesting Pietta manufactured a .36 and then engraved .44 on it? I suppose that could be the case. I am just hesitant to try and fire it if the ball is too large for the chamber and barrel. That is why I went down to the size ball I purchased.

January 29, 2008, 11:39 AM	#13
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	I am a bit confused. The ball is not supposed to go halfway in without being rammed. There should be plenty of space under the rammer. Are you loading one chamber at a time, then ramming that one chamber or trying to place a ball in each chamber before ramming? I believe Cabela's website has a video on loading the blackpowder revolver, you may want to check it out.

January 29, 2008, 01:13 PM	#14
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	I believe you in regards to the markings but markings don't make it so. Pietta's are not regarded as the highest of quality or QC. It would not suprise me if your gun has a .44 barrel but a .36 cylinder. Stranger things have happened. Luckily Midway's customer service is excellent if it is indeed the case.

January 29, 2008, 04:49 PM	#16
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	Mykeal, I was referring to the original poster who said a .451 would not sit half way in. I agree 100% with your post. Nice photos, ought to help clarify things.

January 29, 2008, 06:42 PM	#17
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	I.Cutler - I understand and apologize.

January 29, 2008, 08:54 PM	#18
M14MSgt Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2007 Location: Lancaster CA Posts: 105	my situation more resembles the .44 photos.

January 30, 2008, 04:31 AM	#20
jwhistler Junior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: fort worth Posts: 4	do you think he may have to much powder in the cylinder for the ball to seat

January 30, 2008, 02:21 PM	#21
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	That was my next question ....how much powder did you put in that hole ??