The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 5, 2011, 04:21 PM   #4651
BrownTrout
Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 31
Thanks Dave

@ Dave, I really appreciate the information. Would anyone be able to estimate a value?

Bluing is very nice, I'd say 95%, grips are very nice too.

But I'm wondering if I overpaid...
BrownTrout is offline  
Old November 5, 2011, 05:46 PM   #4652
Dave Anderson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2011
Posts: 295
Generally I don't do value estimates, I doubt anyone would be prepared to estimate value without at least some good quality photos. I can suggest a couple of pros and cons.

Cons first:

1. Based on your information it appears there is no collector value. Military collectors want unaltered examples, and in any case U.S. collectors naturally tend to be more interested in revolvers made for and used by U.S. armed forces.

2. M&P revolvers prior to s/n V769000 (about December 1944) had an older style spring-powered hammer block which could on occasion stick and not function as intended. A new more positive hammer block was designed at the request of the U.S. Navy after a sailor was killed when a revolver was dropped onto a steel deck. With the older hammer block I'd only carry with an empty chamber under the hammer.

3. Although it's been done thousands of times I personally wouldn't shoot .38 Specials in one of these converted .38 S&Ws.

Pros:

1. It is an S&W and it is not junk. At the time it was made it was equal in quality and finish to S&W commercial production. Even those made in later years under wartime pressure were every bit as good in terms of steel quality, heat treatment, parts fit and operation, just without the fine polish and blue finish.

2. Checkered grips with the diamond pattern around the grip screw would be correct for the time this was made. They may well be the original grips and as such would have collector value in themselves.

3. You say the barrel length is 2 3/8", which means it likely retains the front lug into which the ejector rod latches. Those shortened to 2" lost the lug in the process, meaning the cylinder locked only at the back. Assuming I bought a converted model at all, I'd much rather have one with the front lockup intact.

4. You say the crown and front sight appear to be factory. Again assuming this is a conversion, this suggests the job was well done.

Without photos I doubt anyone would want to hazard an estimate; even with photos an estimate would only be over a fairly broad range. I will say if I saw it for sale at a gunshop, it would be the grips I'd be most interested in.

Also just one further point, M&P revolvers made for Britain were mostly with 5" barrels, though 4" and 6" barrels are known as well. Roy Jinks says the Victory models made in .38 Special for U.S. sales were mostly made with 4" barrels but some made with 2" barrels and the appropriate-length ejector. I've never seen one, even in photos, but I've read there are some examples owned by collectors.
Dave Anderson is offline  
Old November 6, 2011, 08:50 PM   #4653
BrownTrout
Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 31
Dave - Thanks so much for the information, although I must admit I was hoping it was something rare, rather than a cut piece.

I will get some photos for you. I re-examined the front sight and barrel crown... my goodness they did a good job if it's not factory.

I'll provide photos of the gun (and the GRIPS... might be the best part of this deal). I'll concentrate a few photos on the bbl. end and front sight for your evaluation...

In any case I suppose I can get some repro fake stag grips or something, sell the checkered ones on gunbroker and recoup some cash w/o seriously damaging the collectibility of the gun.

I paid $233 for it... too much?



Edit: the bbl. does NOT retain the lug, (Frownie-face) but there is seriously no evidence that a lug was ground off (pics of this too, to come). Also there is a filled area on the butt where the lanyard ring was... if that means anything.


Double-Edit: since firing .38 Spec. might not be the best idea, can I still shoot .38 S&W in this thing?
BrownTrout is offline  
Old November 7, 2011, 08:03 PM   #4654
BrownTrout
Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 31
Pics for you Dave!

Attachment 75265

Attachment 75266

Attachment 75267

Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; November 30, 2013 at 11:47 AM.
BrownTrout is offline  
Old November 7, 2011, 10:28 PM   #4655
Dave Anderson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2011
Posts: 295
Brown Trout: pictures

Agree, the workmanship on the shortened barrel/front sight was well done. I'm sure it was not done at the S&W factory. The factory would never remove the front lug for the ejector rod. Also I've never seen a front sight like that one on an S&W. However there were other good gunsmiths besides those at S&W.

The grips look correct for the era and are of the style used from 1929-1941. If the left grip panel is as nice as the right-side one the they would certainly be of interest to collectors. A very knowledgeable collector friend estimated $50-75. Considering the good condition, a collector who really wanted them might go even higher.

The revolver most likely had a lanyard loop in the butt at one time; the loop has been removed and the hole filled.

Since you paid $233 for it I don't see you losing any money on the deal. I know collectors who would pay $250 just to get the grips, and would do as you suggest; put a set of non-collectible grips on and resell the revolver.

The issue of shooting .38 Specials in these converted revolvers is debatable. Personally I wouldn't but then I have other revolvers. I know shooters and collectors whose opinions I respect who have no problem with shooting standard (i.e. not +P) .38 Specials in these converted revolvers. Certainly in quality of steel, heat treatment and workmanship they are the same as .38 Special K-frames of the same era.

You'll get different opinions also on shooting .38 S&W cartridges in these converted chambers. Some sources say they work fine, others say accuracy is considerably reduced. Since I've never tried it I can't offer an opinion.
Dave Anderson is offline  
Old November 8, 2011, 02:18 PM   #4656
*Paladin*
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2
Ok, first off this is my first post here at the Firing Line. Name is Steve. Active duty military stationed in Idaho. Anyway, on to the question!

I have an old Smith & Wesson round butt with a 4" bbl. It's a nickle plated gun, with the following roll-marked on the top of the barrel:

Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass USA
Patented Oct 8 1901 Dec 17 1901
Feb 8 (or 6?) 1906 Sept 14 1909 Dec 29 191x (last number unreadable)

Rollmarked on the rt side of the bbl is:
38 S&W SPECIAL CTG

Rollmarked on the left side of bbl is:
SMITH & WESSON

Rollmarked on the bottom of the butt and cylinder is the SN#
303xxx

There are 3 screws on the right sideplate, one at the front of the trigger guard, one on the lower frontstrap and one on the cylinder latch. The barrel is pinned.

Can anyone tell me about this gun? I got it for free years ago. It's probably not worth a darn because there is little plating left on the sideplate and several other spots. I'm just looking for an approx date of manufacture and model.

Thanks for your help! -Steve

Last edited by *Paladin*; November 8, 2011 at 03:48 PM.
*Paladin* is offline  
Old November 8, 2011, 07:58 PM   #4657
laytonj1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,464
Quote:
SN# 303xxx
.38 Military & Police 4th Change.
SN dates it to around 1920, just before S&W started heat treating the cylinders.
These went on to become the Model 10 when S&W began assigning models numbers in 1957.

Jim
laytonj1 is offline  
Old November 8, 2011, 08:22 PM   #4658
*Paladin*
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2
Thanks Jim!
__________________
-Steve
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Rifle Instructor
RIP TSgt Jason Norton and SSgt Brian McElroy. KIA near Taji, Iraq-22 Jan 06. Never forgotten...
*Paladin* is offline  
Old November 8, 2011, 11:22 PM   #4659
Shoktronic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2011
Posts: 1
Inherited S&W Model 36

Hi guys. I went all through this thread hoping to find some info on a pistol I inherited. Its stamped a model 36 with a 2" barrel. It has a round butt and what I am assuming are diamond grips (diamond cross cuts and large diamond shap where screw inserts). The serial number has me puzzled. The inside on the grip on the left has 35xxx. Just above it is what looks to be a 9 that is in a sideways orientation. 35xxx is also located just in front of the cylinder with a R stamped below it. On the bottom of the grip is 237xxx.

Any help would be appreciated. Also if anyone knows what kind of loads I can fire out of this safely would also be apprecated.
Shoktronic is offline  
Old November 9, 2011, 12:42 AM   #4660
Dave Anderson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2011
Posts: 295
Shoktronic re Model 36

The number on the bottom of the grip 237XXX is the serial number. The other numbers are assembly/parts numbers. The model was originally called the Chiefs Special and was the first to use the new "J" frame size. S/N 1 was completed on October 24, 1950. When S&W began using model numbers in 1957 the Chiefs Special was assigned model number 36.

I don't have exact year by year dates for the model 36, but can narrow it down a bit. The first of the Chiefs Specials to get the model 36 stamping was s/n 125000 in 1957. S&W made a change in how the mainspring and hammer connect on Sept. 12, 1962 at approximately s/n 295000.

A reasonable estimate for year of production would be 1960. The grips you describe would be correct for the time frame. These compact J-frame revolvers were tremendously popular when first introduced and remain so to this day.

Assuming it is in sound condition it can safely be used with any standard pressure .38 Special ammunition.
Dave Anderson is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 07:17 AM   #4661
twhidd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2005
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 790
Model 10-7

Can someone help me with a date on this one please. Model 10-7 and the serial on the grip is ADP58XX. Thanks.
__________________
Todd
NRA Life Member
twhidd is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 01:56 PM   #4662
harleyguy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2011
Posts: 1
model 36

I have a model 36 serial # 162xxx and I would like to know what year it was made
harleyguy is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 03:14 PM   #4663
laytonj1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,464
Quote:
ADP58XX
Late 1983.

Quote:
model 36 serial # 162xxx
Serial numbers ran from 125000 in 1957 to 295000 in 1962.

Jim
laytonj1 is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 07:32 PM   #4664
coldcanuck
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2010
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Posts: 6
model 14 ppc

I just picked up a model 14 that has been modified for PPC. It appears to be a "no dash" 4 screw model with ser# K414XXX. Can anybody tell me what the DOB might be? Thanks!!
coldcanuck is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 08:56 PM   #4665
laytonj1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,464
Quote:
K414XXX
1960.
SN's ran from K386805 to K429894 that year.
4 screw would be correct but it might be a 14-1. The change over to -1 was around 1959/60. It should be marked on the frame just forward of the cylinder, visable only when the cylinder is open.

Jim
laytonj1 is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 01:34 AM   #4666
coldcanuck
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2010
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Posts: 6
4 screw 14

Thanks Jim, I double checked and the model # stamped there is no dash.
coldcanuck is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 11:46 AM   #4667
SgtSkiddz
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2011
Posts: 2
I just aquired a M629 it is my first S&W. As many others on here are asking, I just thought I'd inquire as to the info on mine.

S# N879XXX
SgtSkiddz is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 12:12 PM   #4668
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near Ohio, Indiana.
Posts: 3,505
M36 serial, DOB?

Can anyone give me the DOB of a S&W 36 (no dash), serial number 1J01XXX ?
__________________
Sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes you only pay more for what you get.
Three shots are not a "group"...they are a "few".

If the Bible is the literal, infallible, unerring word of God...where are all those witches I am supposed to kill?
dahermit is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 12:56 PM   #4669
laytonj1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,464
Quote:
S# N879XXX
The N8xxxxx serial numbers ran from 1980 to 1983.

Quote:
serial number 1J01XXX
1982.
Serial numbers ran from J915401 to 1J18600 that year.

Jim
laytonj1 is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 07:09 PM   #4670
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near Ohio, Indiana.
Posts: 3,505
Thanks Jim.
__________________
Sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes you only pay more for what you get.
Three shots are not a "group"...they are a "few".

If the Bible is the literal, infallible, unerring word of God...where are all those witches I am supposed to kill?
dahermit is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 01:17 AM   #4671
SgtSkiddz
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2011
Posts: 2
Thanks Jim!
SgtSkiddz is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 04:55 PM   #4672
Zezet
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2011
Posts: 4
.38 special

I have recently have been given a .38 Special S&W Revolver, and wanted to know a little information on it. Details I know about it currently:

Barrel is around 6 inches, says S&W CTG.
I did a little google searching, it seems to be a long colt.
Numbers I could find on the gun what seems to be a serial and model.
Serial: 72128
Model: 641
Handle seems to be a custom handle, round.
6 bullet revolver

Thanks for any information you can help me with on the gun, I think it is a fine gun to keep for my personal use.
Zezet is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 06:27 PM   #4673
laytonj1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,464
Zezet,

The chambering is .38 S&W Special (38 Special).

Need to figure out the model and serial number.
Serial number will be located here:
Include any letters.


If made post 1957 then model number here:
This is a 629-1.

Jim
laytonj1 is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 06:44 PM   #4674
Zezet
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2011
Posts: 4
Jim, the handle has been replaced, or has a plastic casing on it, I don't know if it wise to remove.
I see it shows Mod 64-1

Serial is D660035

*Edit* I was able to take the cover off to find out.
Zezet is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 06:57 PM   #4675
laytonj1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,464
Quote:
Serial is D660035
The model 64 is a stainless steel version of the model 10 (.38 Military & Police).
The SN dates it to 1974.

Jim
laytonj1 is offline  
Reply

Tags
s&w 686

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.75745 seconds with 8 queries