The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old January 21, 2008, 02:46 PM   #1
Billy Sparks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC 27105
Posts: 745
MSAR STG-556 Review (Long)

One of my last guns of 2007 was a MSAR STG-556 that I got from WildAlaska. In case you aren’t familiar the MSAR STG-556 it is a clone of a Steyr AUG which is being built by Microtech Small Arms Research, yes the same Microtech that makes knives. As several postings on internet boards point out it is sort of concerning that a company that’s manufacturing knowledge and expertise is in knives has first off branched out into rifles and then into the world of AUGs. But enough wondering, time to see how they did. In case you are not familiar with what they look like here are a few pictures of the rifle.





Right out of the box it is a sinister, neat looking rifle. To say I nearly got mobbed at my local dealer (Triad Gun Source and Indoor Range, got to plug the local guys) is a understatement. The Stg-556 has “new cool gun” written all over it. Combine that with the AUG is not the most seen rifle around and you will have a lot of people asking what it is. It handles surprisingly well for a bull pup. Even though it has a full 16” barrel it is much smaller in length than an AR with the stock full collapsed. The built in 1.5 x optic is easy to acquire, there is a sort of built in sights on top of the optic in the form of a front post and rear notch but they are not that distinct. But the optic can be replaced with a regular rail placed on it for mounting an ACOG, EoTech, Tripower, Aimpoint, etc. The only problem I can see is the charging handle and the front sling attachment point. With a sling attached it looks a little tight for a hand to fit. Picture for reference.



This rifle has a forward assist separate from the charging handle (on original AUGs the charging handle did double duty as the forward assist, or so I am told I have never handled a original AUG) I have never quite got the idea of a forward assist, I mean if the round doesn’t want to go into the chamber why beat it in? Also in the box was a real AUG magazine that the fine folks at Wild West Guns had modified to see if it would work. In case you are wondering the STG-556 will not work with original AUG magazines but uses magazines manufactured by them, although Microtek magazines will work in an original AUG.

Now before I shot any new gun, especially one I am not real familiar with field stripping, I like to field strip it, clean the barrel and lube it. So suitable armed with the manual (yes I use the manual) I trundled off to the basement to break it down and lube. Following the manual I pushed the disassemble button and tried to separate the upper from the lower without success. Yes, it does have an upper (with the barrel and optics) and lower (with trigger group and magazine well), I am not sure if that is the correct terminology but it is what I am going to use. After several minutes of messing and some muttering I realized that the disassemble button does not have a detent in it. So if you push it out and then move the rifle around it partially slides back into place. Once I figured this out and followed the manuals suggestion to point the barrel at the floor, hold onto the butt and push the forward end it came apart. One word of caution if you buy one realize that it is tight out of the box, the second time I field stripped it the latches and buttons moved much easier. Either that or I now knew what I was doing. I cleaned the weapon and tried to reassemble it, yes tried. When I went to remate the user and lower together, it would come with in ¼ on an inch of closing but then stop. After some more muttering I realized the disassemble latch was flopping around, so I held that in the open position but it still wouldn’t close. So what I did was put a light coat of oil on the top of the bolt housing and then did a reverse of the disassemble where I pushed the lower forward while pulling the upper toward it and it worked. Here I want to point out a gripe about the manual, don’t get me wrong the manual was good with lots of pictures but the problem is the pictures were too small to see good detail. With that said at least they don’t do like some companies and the reassemble instructions state “To Reassemble, reverse disassemble directions”. So with the gun back together and lubed it was time to load magazines and head to the range to see how this puppy does.

Finally I was over the cold/virus nose running like a stream and coughing up junk, to head to a local range, Triad Gun Source and Indoor Range. Triad Gun Source is a relatively new range in Rural Hall; it is a converted store front with a 20.5 yard indoor range that the backstop is rifle rated. I know some people will say what good is a 20.5 yard indoor range for a rifle, well seeing as how it was breezy and cool and this place is at least warm I say plenty. I took with me 3 magazines (2 MSAR manufactured ones 1 30 rounder and 1 10 rounder and the WWG modified 30 rounder), all loaded with Lake City surplus ammunition. I pasted a Birchwood Casey Shoot and see target over the center of a humanoid target and ran it out to the 10 yard line. I fired one round and was pleasantly surprised to see it hit just a touch low and to the left of the orange dot I was aiming at. Now before we go one further let me explain the type shooter I am. I am one of those that when I make a good shoot I get so excited that my second round is just as likely to be on the person next to mine target (as some of my scores at local IDPA matches can attest). Therefore when I fired the second shot I wasn’t totally surprise to not see a flash of yellow but then when I fired the third and fourth round and still didn’t see a new splash of yellow it sort of bothered me so I ran the target in. You can imagine my surprise when I look at the target and realize that the reason I don’t have new yellow dots on the target is that they are hitting so close to the original that it is just making the yellow dot slower bigger. To test to see if the stars were just aligned I got the owner of the range loaded up the 10 round magazine and let him try it. Once again at 10ish yards he was able to get all 10 rounds in an approximately 3” circle. This with a rifle he had never handled let alone fired. So was there any problems, yes I had several feed problems with the modified AUG magazine. I think I can get it to work but I would not depend on this if you were using the rifle for anything other than range plinking. The other thing is (for me) how do you change magazines in a timely manner? The magazines and latch are basically between my firing wrist and my shoulder.

Okay to wrap it up. What do I think of the MSAR STG-556? Seeing as how real AUGs are starting in the $2,500 dollar range on GunBroker this is a chance for someone to have an AUGlike (because it is not a 100% Steyr Aug but a clone it is AUGlike) for at least several hundred less. It handles beautifully and I can see when some armies have adopted bullpups, you get small size with a longer barrel length. If my job involved getting in and out of vehicles all day with a rifle this would be my first choice if I could figure out the ergonomics. It has very impressive accuracy and of course it is loaded with “Cool Gun” vibes. The bottom line is doing I like it? Yes, would I buy it again? Yes.
Billy Sparks is offline  
Old January 21, 2008, 05:37 PM   #2
MTMilitiaman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2004
Location: NW Montana
Posts: 1,875
Thanks for the review.

I followed about 30 pages of a topic on AR-15.com discussing this rifle when it first came out, and it seems like every one of them had some kind of feeding problems with the newer rifles. Some even had to send their rifles back shortly after receiving it. Yet most were almost universally impressed with the rifles, which I just don't understand. You'd think if you paid $2K for a rifle, you would expect it to function properly. I have yet to read a single review of this rifle in which it functioned 100% out of the box. Most problems are apparently related to mags, and some reports indicated that the rifle did better after a brief break-in period.

It is all moot for me anyways, as I am not $2K interested in a poodle shooter. But I think if I was going to get a poodle shooter, it would be the FS2000 instead.

Glad you like your rifle.
__________________
"...nothing says 'I WILL shoot every last one of you before you have time to reconsider your poor choices in life' like an AK."
~Dave R.
MTMilitiaman is offline  
Old January 21, 2008, 07:53 PM   #3
Wildalaska
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,174
Quote:
I followed about 30 pages of a topic on AR-15.com discussing this rifle when it first came out, and it seems like every one of them had some kind of feeding problems with the newer rifles. Some even had to send their rifles back shortly after receiving it.
As I understand it from the factory, folks were dremeling the stocks in order to get original AUG mags to work.

Bingo: feed problems.

WildhaveyouhuggedyourMSTARtodayAlaska TM
Wildalaska is offline  
Old January 22, 2008, 07:41 AM   #4
Billy Sparks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC 27105
Posts: 745
Just to be 100% accurate and make sure I am not misunderstood. The rifle worked 100% with MSAR mags it was only with the modified Steyr magazine that I had problems. I played with the modified magazine at the house this weekend and I think I have figured out the problem but until I can get to the range and test out my theory I am not saying.
Billy Sparks is offline  
Old January 22, 2008, 11:36 AM   #5
Wildalaska
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,174
well head out to the range then

Screw work and responsibility, you have guns to shoot!

Wildhaveyouhuggedyourcz85todayAlaska TM
Wildalaska is offline  
Old January 22, 2008, 04:09 PM   #6
MTMilitiaman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2004
Location: NW Montana
Posts: 1,875
Quote:
Screw work and responsibility, you have guns to shoot!
I find that as much sense as that makes to me, it doesn't go over to well with employers.
__________________
"...nothing says 'I WILL shoot every last one of you before you have time to reconsider your poor choices in life' like an AK."
~Dave R.
MTMilitiaman is offline  
Old January 23, 2008, 07:40 AM   #7
Billy Sparks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC 27105
Posts: 745
Quote:
Screw work and responsibility, you have guns to shoot!
Then how could I afford to buy more stuff from you? But seriously I hope to go Friday after work, that is the first night I don't have a meeting after work.
Billy Sparks is offline  
Old January 23, 2008, 08:11 AM   #8
Icopy1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 415
I purchased the Limited Edition version of this rifle straight from Microtech for $2100, shipped. The rifle arrived in September, but I had to send it back because the barrel had a gouge in it. They paid for shipping and sent me a new barrel by next day air, along with a short rail for my troubles. I inserted the barrel to check for fit. When I removed it, I saw the same gouge appearing. A call to Microtech told me that there must be a burr in the receiver. So I sent the entire rifle back, and they were going to send me a new rifle. They paid for shipping. In the meantime, most of the rifles were recalled for FTF and FTE issues. Mine was among the ones being recalled, so I would have had to send it back anyway. Three weeks later, a new rifle arrives at my dealer. I stripped the rifle and noticed that the bolt carrier group was not serial numbered to the rifle as it should have been on the limited editions. I shipped it back to Microtech. I get a personal phone call from Tony, the owner of Microtech to address the issues I had been having. Very nice man by the way. They serial numbered the bolt group to my rifle and sent it back to me. Again by next day air. Now the date is at the end of October, a month after I had received my new rifle. I cleaned and lubed the rifle and headed to the range. I loaded the mags with 55 grain winchester white box, the same brand I use in my Colt 6721 and HK93. Out of 20 rounds, I had 18 FTEs. I sent the rifle back and they refunded my money, including dealer transfer fees.

Sadly, my experience with their rifle wasn't the greatest. But they get an A+ for customer service.
Icopy1 is offline  
Old January 23, 2008, 03:05 PM   #9
Billy Sparks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC 27105
Posts: 745
Frankly reading all of the posts I think the problems have been with the limited edition guns. Mine was not a limited edition gun but just a good old simple MSAR STG-556.
Billy Sparks is offline  
Old January 23, 2008, 05:27 PM   #10
Icopy1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 415
I agree. They had a learning curve on the Limited Edition models. Enjoy your rifle.
Icopy1 is offline  
Old November 11, 2008, 11:16 PM   #11
BOBno1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2008
Location: Garden City, KS
Posts: 12
stg556 new purchase

I'm not an experienced shooter. I wanted a CQB type weapon. I've never felt comfortable bringing an AR up to my shoulder. I bought a MSAR two days after the election. I may need it? The gun shouldered up very nicely. I said to myself, "this is the one". I've only seen an AUG before and had never heard of this gun before. The dealer, Sports Speciality in Colorado Springs, highly recommended the gun. I Google searched MSAR and came up with the firingline forum on the stg556. I see that people have had some problems but I want to say is that my gun performed perfectly right out of the box. I put on an EOtech, sighted it in and began shooting. My first shot on the target was perfect while subsequent shots were within a 3" MOA at 50 yards. As I get used to the MSAR, I will get better. Couln't be more pleased. I bought 4.
BOBno1 is offline  
Old November 12, 2008, 08:54 AM   #12
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 427
I am an experienced shooter and, like you, wanted a carbine primarily for the CQB role. Unfortunately there aren't many .223 bullpups available. Tried my son's FS2000 and didn't care for how it handled for me (YMMV). Tried the STG-556 and I was sold! I now own 2.
The first has been 100% with brass-cased ammo and after 1K rds is almost 100% w/steel-cased ammo (still get the occasional stuck casing every few hundred rds, but that's acceptable for training ammo and it gives me the chance to practice failure drills).
The 2nd had immediate FTE's which MSAR fixed ASAP and now it's 100% with everything I feed it.
I love the way it handles; very quick on-target and very manueverable in close quarters. Heck, I can even do one-handed drills, something I couldn't do w/a full-length carbine. Breakdown is quick & easy w/only the gas piston requiring any cleaning effort.
My final choice for optic (after trying various Aimpoints) was the new Trijicon RX30. Much better than the earlier Reflex series and a huge FOV through the 42mm objective. Reticle washout is still possible under certain rare lighting conditions but you really have to work at it. While not an Aimpoint-killer I think it's a great KISS optic for those who dislike batteries, switches, intensity adjustments, etc.
Tomac
One of my STG's w/the RX30 & LaserMax Uni laser (laser is being replaced w/BUIS):

View through the RX30 at 8am w/the sun at my 3 o'clock:
Tomac is offline  
Old November 12, 2008, 09:46 AM   #13
bclark1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,531
Quote:
well head out to the range then
Screw work and responsibility, you have guns to shoot!
Would you please acquire my employer?

Awesome rifle Billy - glad you're happy with it and thanks for the info.
bclark1 is offline  
Old November 12, 2008, 11:55 AM   #14
BOBno1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2008
Location: Garden City, KS
Posts: 12
Msar Stg 556

Tomac,
Thanks for the response. That RX30 looks cool. I bought the MSAR on impulse. It felt right. I usually study hard before purchasing anything but not this time. So I went to firing line and an aug forum. People were getting a little testy. I am concerned because people were talking about problems with the gun, warranty issues, recalls, product changes and poor customer service. If there has been changes, I would like to know where the four I have are, in the product cycle. Do you or anyone seeing this know about the changes and what about the Civ AUG 3? Is it released? The dealer I bought the stg from has 2 older AUGs and highly praised the MSAR. Maybe he was just spoofin on me.
I want to acessorize the guns further and am thinking about a laser/light next. Suggestions? I saw a picture somewhere on this forum of a MSAR in which the top rail extended forward but was dropped down and then continued forward. It's not MSAR's.
BOBno1 is offline  
Old November 12, 2008, 08:25 PM   #15
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 427
Quote:
Tomac,
Thanks for the response. That RX30 looks cool. I bought the MSAR on impulse. It felt right. I usually study hard before purchasing anything but not this time. So I went to firing line and an aug forum. People were getting a little testy. I am concerned because people were talking about problems with the gun, warranty issues, recalls, product changes and poor customer service. If there has been changes, I would like to know where the four I have are, in the product cycle. Do you or anyone seeing this know about the changes and what about the Civ AUG 3? Is it released? The dealer I bought the stg from has 2 older AUGs and highly praised the MSAR. Maybe he was just spoofin on me.
I want to acessorize the guns further and am thinking about a laser/light next. Suggestions? I saw a picture somewhere on this forum of a MSAR in which the top rail extended forward but was dropped down and then continued forward. It's not MSAR's.
You're welcome. I insist on reliable firearms and if they aren't reliable then I drop 'em in a heartbeat for something better. If I wasn't satisfied w/my STG's then I'd be the first to say so. I'm happy w/MSAR's customer service, I had an unreliable rifle and they made it reliable ASAP and that's the bottom line for me.
IIRC, only a couple of hundred of the very first black Limited Edition STG's had problems that required a recall.
What are the physical features do your STG's? That will tell me which generation you have. I have a Gen.II (forward assist & tulip flash hider) and a Gen.III (forward assist and Jagkommando flash hider like in the pic above). Gen.IV has no forward assist and has gone back to the tulip flash hider.
AUG-3 hasn't been released yet, not even a production picture for people to drool over, latest ETA is 12/08 or 1/09.
A light is easy to add w/the side accessory rail (I really like this position as I can reach the light's rocker switch w/my trigger finger if needbe in case of tapeswitch failure or I want constant-on) and while I tried a TLR-2 (combo light & laser) I didn't like the laser's offset that makes knowing where your bullet will hit problematic. I tried the LaserMax Uni (again, see pic above) and that solved the offset problem but prevented me from using BUIS (which I prefer over a laser). If I were dead-set on having a laser I would probably get the 12" step-down rail and mount a TLR-2 on the stepped-down portion *or* a light on the side accessory rail and a separate laser on the step-down. The step-down rail is from MSAR and it can be ordered here (my fav place for STG accessories): http://www.ratworxusa.com/accessories.html
What other accessories were you considering?
Tomac
Tomac is offline  
Old November 13, 2008, 02:04 AM   #16
BOBno1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2008
Location: Garden City, KS
Posts: 12
My Gen MSAR

Tomac,

I think mine are Gen II. I bought four, one for me, three for other family members. They all are black with the tulip flash hider and forward assist. I started trying to find out about the gun and got nervous because many were knocking the company and the gun at the USAAUG forum (seems the same as this) in the MSAR STG-556 General Discussion forum. I’m calling MSAR tomorrow. I called them today but it was closing time (I got right in). My serial numbers are as follows: 600p001XXX, 600p001XXX, 600p001XXX and 600p000XXX. Mine is the 832 with top rail only for which I got the 512 EOtech (is the 512 model okay?). We have shot xxxx and xxx but not the others. This was a very pleasant experience with no problems whatsoever. I found what appears to be the AUG full auto A3 at http://www.steyrarms.com/index.php?id=35
I appreciate your information about the four generations. I was thinking about that drop down top rail with something (light or laser) forward and below my EOtech, if vision isn’t obscured. I would mount the other of the two (light or laser) on a side rail. There was discussion on one of the forums about a comp trigger offering from MSAR. This interests my as the trigger pull on the MSAR is non discernable, if that’s the right term. I got these guns at Speciality Sports in Colorado Springs. Very large dealer in big Military town. The dealer(owner) said that the MSAR was the finest rifle he sells. He said he has two AUGS. I don’t know if he really means that as I have now found the TPD-AXR at http://www.tpdusa.com/ and the AUG A3. Maybe he was just trying to move product, but he said this at the check out area and wasn’t my salesman.
I would like a case 24" (maybe) from MSAR with the foam already cut out as with the special edition pelican case. Cutouts for gun with accessories on, barrel assembly, 5-42 round mags, spare parts and the cleaning kit. Oh well! What do you think?
Bob

Last edited by BOBno1; November 14, 2008 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Tomac said I should
BOBno1 is offline  
Old November 13, 2008, 09:37 PM   #17
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 427
BOBno1, based upon your serial numbers (and please edit them so the final 3 are XXX instead of the actual numbers) you do have Gen.II's (only difference between them and Gen.III's is the flash hider type).
I prefer the Eotech 512 to all the others due to the greater battery life & AA batteries (most of my kit runs on AA's so that would simplify logistics). However, Eotech has been having a spate of QC problems recently and 2 of the 3 I used to own would drain the batteries while turned off.
If you go w/the step-down rail then I'd suggest putting both light & laser on there if possible because that leaves less on the right side to snag on things. However, I don't consider it that big a deal for my needs as I keep the taclight on the right side (I do like being able to reach the taclight rocker switch w/my trigger finger) so set it up whatever way best suits your needs.
Unfortunately the STG suffers from the typical bullpup trigger but it does improve significantly w/use. The only aftermarket trigger adjustment I'm aware of is the Trigger Tamer which reduces pull by about 1/3. However, some have reported reset problems when using the Trigger Tamer while others have no difficulties.
As far as a case goes I just use a soft case for folding stock rifles (in fact, mine are Russian & made for the AK-74) and the STG, mags & accessories fit just fine.
Keep us posted!...
Tomac
Tomac is offline  
Old November 14, 2008, 09:55 PM   #18
BOBno1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2008
Location: Garden City, KS
Posts: 12
My GEN MSAR

Okay Tomac, I got your message (thanks) but I’ll post here. I was trying to paste a website address into my post and I lost my completed reply twice.
1. You’ve created the GENS. Yes, mine are GEN II. Is GEN I the special editions (pelicans)? GEN II is FA + tulip FH. GEN III is FA + other FH(which people didn’t like). GEN IV is no FA + tulip FH. I could advise these people as I was in the manufacturing business for 33 years.
2. I would like to have no FA. I talked to Keith (the new gunsmith?). He said I could upgrade to the new stock for $300. I’m gonna jump on that one. As they keep changing production on a whim, they should allow owners to upgrade at cost. I would estimate cost to be $80 unless they had to work the plastic castings afterwards. Then the cost might be around $125. If they have to do all this in-house that’s a different story. I like stuff clean and smooth. I call that swoop design.
3. They should have a cap with machined threads to match the suppressor threads and cover them for damage control. They also need to change their cocking handle (knuckle buster). I know how to change it.
4. After reading your responses to me, and I appreciate them very much, I think I would like to go with the drop down rail and put a combo light/laser on the lower rail. But I don’t want to obscure my view through the EOtech. So you recommend the TLR-2?
5. I love my MSAR.
6. On the competition trigger group, customer service said if that happened it would be on the 24” barreled rifle. That means it will happen. I guess I’ll just go out and get another MSAR so I can have a competition trigger.
7. There has been a lot of bashing of the STG and MSAR, the company. Unwarranted! I’ve had no problem reaching them and visiting with whomever I wished to talk to. They are new and growing very fast. It is hard to manage rapid growth. As much as they don’t want to, they should slow down and take a deep breath. According to MSAR, they have had one official recall and that was, their words not mine, the first 80-90 of the special editions. As stated by them, the only other problems were with trunions and extractors. The posts speak differently, I know, but for someone to start out saying that 40% of their production has been recalled is not true.
8. From reading the posts, the competitive environment seems to be the FN2000, TPD-AXR, MSAR STG556 and the STEYR AUG A3. To each his own. If the aug3 had been on the shelf that day, I probably would have purchased 4 of them. As a new production item, they will have some problems too. Pictures and specs are at: http://www.steyrarms.com/index.php?id=35. I sent an email to Steyr about the A3 and we’ve exchanged several emails. Jack with customer service says the semi-auto A3 will ship to dealers on or before 01/15/09.
9. I’ve always loved the look of the Steyr Aug. Steyr as a company is a little strange to me. As one Steyr loyalist said “I’ve been waiting 15 years for them to do something”. In visiting (email) with a marketing guy, I thought it very strange that there is one dealer in Kansas and none in Colorado. The product is coming out in January and they’re rustling up dealers at this late stage of the game. I think MSAR will be very successful and they are set up to change on a dime. Steyr is the one who has their hands full. I wish them luck as well.
__________________
Robert A. Williams
Garden City, KS
BOBno1 is offline  
Old November 14, 2008, 10:44 PM   #19
KChen986
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Location: Ninja Mall
Posts: 818
What type of MOA are people getting with the STG-556?
KChen986 is offline  
Old November 14, 2008, 11:12 PM   #20
Chui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 28, 2004
Posts: 1,657
An aside: I wish it took AR mags...
__________________
"Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." ~ William Pitt, 1783
Chui is offline  
Old November 15, 2008, 10:51 AM   #21
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 427
BOBno1,
1) Wish I could take credit for creating the Gens, but I borrowed the concept from someone else (it does make it easier to differentiate between the different models, doesn't it?)
2) If you don't want the FA then by all means pick up a Gen.IV. Personally, I find the FA to be like my appendix, I forget it's there unless someone mentions it.
3) Yeah, the charging handle could be better, what change did you have in mind? IIRC the gas system timing on the STG makes just attaching a suppressor to a stock bbl problematic, you're better off buying one of their custom bbls w/the suppressor already attached & the gas system pre-tuned for the suppressor. After all, it is a QD bbl and only takes a few seconds to swap.
4) You're quite welcome. What I like about the TLR-2 is that you have only a single tapeswitch to worry about so no confusion as to whether or not you're turning on the laser or the light and it can be set for laser only, light only or both laser & light.
5) Ditto. That's why I have two of them now!
6) I've found the trigger improves significantly w/use. While not particularly well-suited for precision distance work, that's not what the STG was designed for in the first place. However, I'll be keeping an eye out for reports on how well the competition trigger works and if the eventual price would be worth upgrading to.
7) I've had 2 issues w/my STG's, both w/an earlier Gen.II. First problem was constant FTE's & MSAR fixed it up ASAP and now it eats anything I feed it. After appx 800rds the extractor broke but again, MSAR made good pronto on replacing it and including a couple of spares "just in case". I'm happy w/their customer service so far but I'll keep an eye on the extractor as that seems to be the most widely reported problem.
8) Agreed. However, in light of the uncertain political future in this country I do like that the STG is 100% US-made which means I don't have to worry about an Executive Order banning the importation of parts for my rifles. It's unfortunate that FN won't sell FS2000/PS90 parts to their customers.
9) It's funny, but when I first saw/handled an AUG a few decades ago I didn't care for the design at all. Now (wisdom comes w/age?) I really appreciate the compactness, ergonomics, ease of maintenance & handling characteristics of the design. From here on in it's bullpups for me, baby! Let's hope that Steyr isn't so late to the party that there isn't a sufficient market left for them to profit w/the A3.
Tomac
KChen986: I haven't specifically shot for group size but when sighting in my earlier Aimpoint w/2moa dot I was getting 1" 3-shot groups at 50yds using Prvi Partizan 55gr M193.
Chui: I can understand the desire to have it use AR mags (especially if you already have a large quantity on hand) but I don't own any AR mags and find the MSAR mags extremely tough & reliable (although pricier than AR mags). However, I've heard that MSAR is planning on releasing a model that takes AR mags (perhaps just a stock upgrade???)
Tomac is offline  
Old November 15, 2008, 05:43 PM   #22
BOBno1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2008
Location: Garden City, KS
Posts: 12
I Love my MSAR

Tomac,

Responses to your response (This is great)

2) Really, its fine the way it is but I would like to have one. I guess it kind of bothers me that when I bought my guns, GEN IV was already on the market. It's ridiculous to charge $300 for the stock to a person who didn't know he wasn't buying current production. I'm just funny that way. I bet people are getting them for nothing.
3a) Do you have a recommendation for a suppressor setup? What do I have to do to have one on my gun? What reason would I give my Sherriff for getting one and am I then on a special list?
4) How tall is the TLR-2? Exact if possible.
6) The gunsmith (Kevin) seemed to indicate that if there was to be a CTG that it would only be on the 24” barreled rifle. Maybe someone could nail him down on the issue and post it here.
8) Agree
9) I love my MSAR

3b) Preface-I designed agricultural products for 15 years. I have a knack for product development. Having said that, I never paid any attention to gun design, external or internal.
The charging handle is just something I wondered about.
• Assuming it should have a spring, why does the charging handle have vertical travel.
• The vertical travel doesn’t come down enough.
• I think that it should be reversed. The spring pressure should be the opposite of what it is. Wherever it needs to rest in the up position is where there should be a stop and the spring pressure would put it there.
• The vertical axis travel should be twice as much as it is now but in the other direction. I’ve already scraped my knuckles pulling back on the charging handle.
I could be wrong on all of this as I say I don’t understand how everything is supposed to work, but that’s my opinion.
__________________
Robert A. Williams
Garden City, KS
BOBno1 is offline  
Old November 15, 2008, 06:10 PM   #23
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 427
BOBno1,
Here's my response to your response to my response to your questions (this could get outta hand fast!...)
2) Agreed, but at least MSAR is listening to its customer base and making changes based upon what the customers want instead of a "take it or leave it" attitude.
3a) Contact MSAR direct for a price quote on a bbl w/preattached suppressor, this would solve the timing/gas pressure issues associated w/just using an adapter on the end of your current bbl. Personally I have no need for a suppressor as that's a good deal of expense plus custom subsonic ammo is needed for best results. If I had a ton of cash then maybe but since I don't I'll settle for more mags, ammo, etc...
4) TLR-2 measures 1.75" high from the top of the laser down to the top of the rail it's attached to.
6) It was my understanding the CTG was for a special "designated marksman" varient of the STG. I have no idea if the hammer pack would easily interchange into a std STG. If the trigger pull was too light then I would consider that a hazard to safe shooting in a stress-filled tactical situation where fine motor control is the first thing that goes out the window.
3b) How do you work the charging handle? I turn my offhand palm-up and grab it with the pinky & ring finger. I'm well aware of how easy it is to snag/drag/slice/dice fingers & knuckles on the STG which is why I worked hard on my optics to keep the left side as clear as possible. Here's a shot of the left side of the STG when I was experimenting w/an Aimpoint CompM4 w/the QRP-II base reversed so the QD knob was on the right instead of the left:

The only reason for charging handle vertical travel that I can come up with is to allow you to manually lock the bolt open. I suppose you could redesign the handle for faster/easier access & manipulation but then you'd run into possible durability issues (like w/the FS2000's charging handle) or risk having it stick out so far it snags on webbing/gear. However, if anyone can come up w/a better charging handle design then count me in!
Tomac

Last edited by Tomac; November 16, 2008 at 05:19 PM.
Tomac is offline  
Old November 15, 2008, 09:04 PM   #24
kozak6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,322
Have a look:

http://www.steyrarms.com/

If Steyr ever does get around to building them, I wonder how they will compare.
kozak6 is offline  
Old November 19, 2008, 09:33 PM   #25
oneeyenurse
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2008
Posts: 3
Has anyone picked one up recently? I'm really interested in getting one.
oneeyenurse is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14999 seconds with 7 queries