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Old January 20, 2008, 10:02 AM   #1
Sriracha
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Do .22 conversion kits help in training?

Hi everyone,
I am considering getting a CZ Kadet .22 conversion kit for my CZ-75B. What are your experiences training with .22 kits? Am I better off just spending the money on more 9mm ammo? I realize that it is important to train with recoil, but is there enough value in training with a .22 for pointing, target acquisition, and trigger pull?

Also, how crucial is it for training that I get a .22 conversion kit rather than another .22 handgun? (The Kadet kit costs around $300, while a new Ruger 22/45 runs about $220 here...)

Thanks for your advice,
Sr.
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Old January 20, 2008, 10:45 AM   #2
STLRN
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Yes, but can not be used exclusively without the normal full power upper.

They help with weapons handling, sight alignment and trigger control, but not with learning to control recoil.
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Old January 20, 2008, 11:25 AM   #3
tlm225
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Absolutely. There are a couple of benefits. They allow more trigger time for less ammo cost. Quality practice allows the fundamentals to become ingrained. A partner of mine has arthritis in his wrist. After 30-40 rounds of full power stuff the pain causes him to begin flinching. The .22 adapter for his Glock allows him to shoot almost unlimited rounds and he finishes his sessions with about 25 rounds of "the real thing". Since he started doing this his scores have gone up significantly, including those with full power ammo.

As for myself, 30 years ago I was a pretty good handgun shooter but had plenty of room for improvement. I bought a S&W model 17 (K-22) and put thousands of rounds through it. The accuracy of the K-22 and the abundant practice paid off.
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Old January 20, 2008, 11:33 AM   #4
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My Ciener 1911 kit teachs me how to quickly and effectively clear FTEs and FTFs, often multiple times per mag! Yay!

OTOH, my snubnose .22 revolver is a _fantastic_ aid for a snub .38: Cheaper, easier on my hand, and half the time reloading.
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Old January 20, 2008, 01:09 PM   #5
chris in va
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I've had two Ruger 22/45's. Neither impressed me much to be honest. Ergos were not that great and just never warmed up to the gun. I picked up a Kadet kit for my 75 and I shoot it more than any other of my pistols combined. Got it drilled/tapped and put a red dot on it for more fun. Extremely reliable, moreso than the 9mm it resides on.

Keep in mind too it's very accurate with the fixed barrel. Once I got the red dot sighted in, hitting a bowling pin at 80 yards measured is not a problem.
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Old January 20, 2008, 01:44 PM   #6
Hard Ball
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Yes, they certainly do.
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Old January 20, 2008, 02:04 PM   #7
jmorris
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They will, but so will dry firing. I’ve got a Colt ace conversion for a 1911 that has a floating chamber to increase felt recoil (feels about like a 9mm 1911). It has a steel slide, so the slide lock functions as normal and uses a 14# recoil spring that feels closer to “the real thing” than other conversion kits. I also have an advantage arms 22 conversion for a glock that is quite accurate as well; however, it has an aluminum slide that is quite a bit lighter than the factory slide (it feels more like an air soft than the Glock). Although it doesn’t like all brands of 22, it runs like a top with bulk Winchester. If at first your 22 (conversion or other wise) doesn’t run don’t give up just try different ammo.
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Old January 22, 2008, 10:32 PM   #8
chopz
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i kinda wish my cz was more accurate than my mkII target, because it is so much fun to shoot. and whenever i shoot the cz i almost always shoot it in .22 for a while before changing it over to 9mm. maybe if i could afford a brick of 9mm a week i'd feel differently.
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Old January 22, 2008, 11:14 PM   #9
smalltownguy
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glock 30 advantage arms kit

multiple chances to shoot, less noise to annoy the neighbors and ammo prices cant be beat
i agree with the need for full power rounds each range trip
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Old January 23, 2008, 05:01 AM   #10
Jeff22
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.22 conversion units as an aid in training

A reliable .22 conversion unit is a very useful accessory. A conversion unit/rim fire adaptor allows you to practice with yourgun for much less cost -- it's still your gun, your grip, your trigger, and your sights. Practice with a dis-simular .22 handgun can still be of benefit, but practice with a conversion unit will probably be of more utility.

Over the years I've accumulated .22 conversion units for my AR-15, M1911A1, Browning HP and Beretta M9, and have a variety of S&W .22 revolvers that are the same frame size as some of my bigger guns. I shoot .22s in practice all the time.

If thrift requires you to use .22s for practice, or if circumstance compels you to shoot on an indoor range with a mild steel backstop that will only accommodate .22s, then conversion units are very useful. They are also useful as a trainer gun for a new shooter.

For my own use, I found it best to do accuracy drills with the .22s. The grip and trigger and sights are the same but the recoil is so much less that I found that rapid fire or multiple target practice was somewhat limited utility. With the .22s, I usually shoot on the NRA B34 (1/2 scale) or B29 or TQ20 (1/3rd scale) targets at 50 feet.
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Old January 28, 2008, 02:28 AM   #11
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I like big guns. I always try and have a 22lr that is about the same barrel length as the bigger gun, and similar in design.

Helps a ton with figuring out what's wrong with my shooting technique, or, what's right with it.

Do this with both rifles and pistols. Try and have the same scope, trigger, etc. on the rifles, and, the same design on the pistols....
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Old January 28, 2008, 07:04 PM   #12
ckd
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I'm a huge fan of 22lr conversion kits. I have trained, and some of my LEO trainer friends have found, that for first time shooters, especially those with limited upper body strength, a conversion kit work as great training wheels for live fire drills. Though I've only used the Advantage Arms LE Glock kits, any reliable conversion kit is a wise investment.
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Old January 28, 2008, 07:16 PM   #13
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I got one for my 1911 and it has helped me somewhat in the short time I've had it. I'm getting one for my glock.
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Old January 28, 2008, 10:22 PM   #14
Deaf Smith
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Yes!

I have an AACK .22 unit form my GLock 17 competiton gun and it does help!
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Old January 28, 2008, 11:05 PM   #15
SIGSHR
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I have the Ciener units for my Browning HP and M1911, wish I had gotten them years ago. Have a CZ and Kadet on layaway. Would like to get a Colt
unit with the floating chamber, surpised no one else has offered that. Wish I could fund coversion units for my S&W M-639.
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Old February 10, 2008, 07:40 AM   #16
Jeff22
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.22 conversion units

Sig just introduced a .22 conversion unit for the P226 pistol at the SHOT show in Las Vegas last weekend.

It's estimated to cost $300 to $350. No word yet on when it might actually be available.

Conversions for other models of Sig pistols are under development.

I'm so happy I can't stand it.
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Old February 10, 2008, 07:07 PM   #17
chris in va
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Nice. I wonder if it's based on the Mosquito though. Hopefully they'll have the bugs worked out.
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Old February 10, 2008, 07:34 PM   #18
orionengnr
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Quote:
My Ciener 1911 kit teachs me how to quickly and effectively clear FTEs and FTFs, often multiple times per mag! Yay!
I have heard that sentiment often enough that I just took my $250 and spent it on a Ruger MkII that works perfectly.

I have put a lot of rounds through it and it definitely translates to an improvement in my centerfire pistol shooting, even if the grip angle isn't exactly the same and the controls are not identical...

I experienced the same thing when I bought an S&W M-17 to supplement my revolver shooting. Unfortunately, financial setbacks caused me to sell it a litle while back. Maybe someday I'll own another.
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Old February 13, 2008, 12:21 AM   #19
Jeff22
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Col. Jeff Cooper on .22 conversion units

USE OF THE .22 HANDGUN IN TRAINING
By Col. Jeff Cooper
From Cooper on Handguns (1st edition) (Los Angeles, Calif; Peterson Publishing Co, 1974)


"As a trainer, the .22 is quite efficient, though it does not entirely suffice for a full course of instruction, as the student must become accustomed to the greater recoil and louder report of a full duty load. Several good service auto pistols may be fitted with a .22 caliber attachment which permits practice and sport shooting with the small cartridge. This is an excellent idea, in view of the high and increasing cost of center-fire ammunition." -- Page 32
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"The use of the .22 as a trainer is often recommended. If the objective is target shooting, this is an excellent idea. Most target shooting is restricted to the old fashioned, one handed dueling stance, and encourages a limp grip. Recoil is a definite consideration here, and by starting a beginner out on a .22, he can be taught sight alignment and trigger control before he is introduced to bounce and blast. However, if one starts a student out directly with the Weaver Stance, this is not a serious matter, except with those few individuals who are simply demoralized by shooting. I have encountered some of these in teaching (interestingly, all were men) but I could do nothing with them with the .22 either, so it was no help in such cases." --Page 101
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The .22 caliber Combat Masterpiece (S&W 18) is essentially a 4 inch K-22. It is useful primarily as a sub-caliber trainer for users of the service revolvers of identical configuration (S&W 15 & S&W 67)"
--Page 170
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Several of the more prominent service autos of the world may be fitted with attachments that permit them to fire the .22 long rifle cartridge. Examples include the U.S.45 Government model, the German P38, and the Swiss Sig 210. This is a splendid notion, as it permits inexpensive practice with the duty weapon, and further qualifies it for use in situations where the center-fire cartridge is overly noisy or destructive, as on some indoor ranges. I think a .22 conversion kit should be available for any service auto, and that the lack of such an attachment is a very serious drawback, which should be given much weight in the choice of a sidearm. Practice with the .22 conversion device does NOT take the place of center-fire practice, but it helps, and center-fire ammunition is so expensive and hard to procure that many people simply give up the idea of a proper training program. The .22 converter is a good solution to this problem." --Page 179
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