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Old April 23, 2011, 10:24 PM   #1
Fusion
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Recommendations for a ball powder to use in .243?

I'm looking for recommendations for a good ball powder to use in a .243. Right now I'm using IMR 4831 and I love how it shoots. I'm getting sub moa groups, and with Hornady 95 grain SST bullets I'm shooting to the exact same POI as Winchester 100 grain power point ammo. I mean almost exact since both will hit in the bullseye. Federal 100 grain Powershoks hit about .5" low and Remington Core Lokts about 1" high. I love this because I can switch to factory ammo if I need to while out of town on a hunting trip, and I don't have to worry about it.

Now what I don't like about the IMR 4831 is it doesn't meter worth a crap. It's always done this for me, but I forgot how bad it was since I hadn't loaded any .243 in a while and I use ball powders for my other calibers. Now, I'm using a RCBS Uniflow powder measure and I weigh each and every charge. It's just something I like to do to make sure it's perfect. With the ball powders I use 95% of the time, it's perfect and every once in a while I will get one just .1 or .2 grains off from the others, but it's rare. It's really nice as I dump the power onto the scale to measure it and dump it in the case. This isn't what happens when using IMR4831. This thing seems to vary about .8-1 grain each throw. Sometimes it will be too much powder coming out, sometimes to little. I often find myself having to dump the powder back in the Uniflow and do another charge. I often find myself doing this 8-10 times before it comes out with the right about. When I have to do this 8-10 times to just load one bullet it takes forever to load anything. Took me well over an hour today just to charge 25 cases. This is a huge hassle, and I'm ready to get something that doesn't do this. Any advice for a similar performing powder, but that is a ball powder?
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Old April 23, 2011, 10:35 PM   #2
Jim243
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What you need to do is get a trickle charger and set your powder measure just under the weight you want and just trickle in enough granuals to give you what you want on your scale. Perfect each and every time. A little more work but not much and you will know it is correct each and every time.

Personally I use Hornady 105 grain A-Max with 32.5 grains of H-4895. an excelent combination.

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Old April 23, 2011, 11:10 PM   #3
mehavey
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Win760 and/or Win780 look real good from a fill-ratio/pressure/velocity POV (Quickload)

Interestingly, I couldn't find either in most of the (book) manuals. Speer/Nosler/Hornady did show a load for 90gr bullet/W760 and the Winchester site has loads for W760 as well.

Win760
For 243Win/90gr bullet, Nosler's 6th max'd out at 42.0gr/(83% CaseFill)/3,139fps
For 243Win/90gr bullet, Speer 13th max'd out at 41.0gr/2,947fps
For 243Win/90gr bullet, Speer 14th max'd out 43.0gr/3,056fps
For 243Win/87gr bullet, Hornady 6th max's out ar 42.5gr/3,100fps
For 243Win/90gr bullet, Winchester's site max'd out at 43.5gr/(89%CaseFill)/3,185fps

Win780 Supreme (Newer Powder)
For 243Win/90gr bullet, QuickLoad's 55,000psi load predicts: W780'Supreme'/47.7gr (97%CaseFill)/3,068fps

With the varation you see above, get other opinions and work these up carefully starting well under max

Last edited by mehavey; April 23, 2011 at 11:28 PM.
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Old April 23, 2011, 11:25 PM   #4
Fusion
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Thanks for the info I appreciate it.
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Old April 24, 2011, 01:22 AM   #5
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I'm surprised Winchester 780 was suggested here. It's a rarely mentioned powder, that many people still haven't heard of.

My suggestion was going to be:
Winchester 780 (aka: Winchester Supreme 780, Winchester 780 Supreme, Supreme 780, 780 Supreme, W780).

I have (or do still) run it in .30-06, .270 Win, .220 Swift, and .243 Win. I'm quite impressed with its performance in the .220 Swift and .243 Win, and you'll love it if you're a fan of the 4831 burn rate. W780 was designed to be a ball powder equivalent to 4831, but load data is NOT interchangeable. Hodgdon used to be the only data source, but I'm seeing it pop up in a few more places (W780 has been out for 3-4 years now).

I'm running the W780 behind 95 gr SSTs, but Hodgdon's published load is for Partitions:
Code:
95 GR. NOS PART 	Winchester 	Supreme 780 	.243" 	2.650" 	45.1 	2943 	44,100 CUP 	48.0 	3138 	49,800 CUP
Be sure to check their reloading center, for the rest of the info.

(I can't give you my 95 gr SST "pet load", as it's currently being reworked for a new rifle with a longer barrel.)
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Old April 24, 2011, 10:32 AM   #6
Fusion
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Thanks guys sounds like the Winchester 780 is the powder I need to check out.

Also, has anyone used the new Superformance ammo from Hodgon that's supposedly what Hornady uses in their Superformance loads? It's kind of caught my attention too, but at the time same time I'm more looking for accuracy than speed.
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Old April 24, 2011, 12:43 PM   #7
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Superformance is a lower density powder (higher charge weights), that nearly duplicates W780. You get less bang-for-your-buck with Superformance, data is extremely limited right now, and there won't be a lot of data available for quite some time.

I posted my opinion of the powder yesterday, in this thread.
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Old April 24, 2011, 08:45 PM   #8
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IMR 4831 is a great powder, aside from it's cutting action using that dispenser it has no other flaws? In my 30-06 it was very accurate. I always throw .5 grain under and trickle the precise amount to completion for hunting loads. So time was never a problem.

If you are looking for a new powder follow FrankenMauser's advice. I saw one of the best 300 yard 5 shot groups with a bone stock savage model 16 in .243 and Superformance powder. Nosler 70's and federal std primers. Talk about the ultimate coyote load....3 shots touched and the other 2 were about 1/4" away.
Very stable load at freezing temps shooting squirrels. (my middle name is overkill) Use data from the "Annual Hodgdon load magazine" published in Jan each year. It has some accuracy loads using this same powder and .243.

Burn Rates from Hodgdon

123. VihtaVuori N160
124. Hodgdon H4831 & H4831SC
125. Hodgdon SUPERFORMANCE
126. Winchester Supreme 780
127. NORMA MRP
128. Alliant Reloder 22

Read this info from Hodgdon

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/SuperLever.pdf
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Old April 24, 2011, 10:01 PM   #9
GWS
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I've never used Winchester 780, but I have used the older Winchester 760. While velocity isn't up to IMR 4350 standards accuracy is superb in my Remington 600 carbine.
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Old April 24, 2011, 10:27 PM   #10
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I also grew tired of the long stick powders and tried all sorts of spherical powders this spring in various calibers. It worked out pretty well for my .243. Hybrid 100V (not really spherical, but meters well) was moderately effective but not great. W-780 worked much much better. But the hands down winner with both 95 gr SST and 100 gr BTSP was... Ramshot Hunter. It meters great and delivered the best accuracy I have ever attained in that rifle with any powder. I don't have my load data in front of me right now but I kind of recall it was a middle range load.

Remember to use magnum primers with the spherical powders.
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Old April 30, 2011, 11:51 PM   #11
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Oh the Superformance powder is Ball Powder. Just so you know. Meters like water in all measures.
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Old May 1, 2011, 06:12 PM   #12
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I still have a supply of W-785 which has been obsolete since J.C. was a Buck Private . I was told it is the powder Winchester used when designing the Cartridge back in 55 ! I'm going to have to give W-780 a try cause the 785 isn't going to last much longer ! Maybe H-414 or 435 would work for you !
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Old May 1, 2011, 06:34 PM   #13
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Alliant is introducing a new line of spherical rifle powders, the Power-Pro line, in four speeds, from varmint, to light rifle, medium rifle, and magnum rifle. They claim that the powder is made in the USA.

I haven't used any yet, but it might be another option.
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Old May 1, 2011, 10:33 PM   #14
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Try hodgdon hybrid V100. I'm using it with 43gr shooting Berger VLD
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Old May 4, 2011, 02:25 PM   #15
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I use H414/WW760 myself. It can be loaded from 70 grainers to 105s. Very accurate and predictable, good velocity, and flows through the measure like water.
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