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Old January 13, 2008, 04:55 PM   #1
dmxx99
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I saw this 12 gauge ammo what do you think of it as a defense load?

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=377126
I saw this shotgun ammo on a sportsman guide magazine and thought to myself "one .65 caliber ball plus six .30 caliber buckshot balls at 1300 fps this looks like the perfect defense load for my 870".
What do you think?
I do have defense ammo for my shotgun but I like to experiment whenever I can with different types of ammo instead of plain 00 buckshot to see what is best.
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Old January 13, 2008, 05:36 PM   #2
Bill DeShivs
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The concept of duplex projectiles is an old one and is a sound concept.
Pattern some and see how they work.
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Old January 13, 2008, 07:47 PM   #3
Dfariswheel
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This dates back to the early days of guns.

In the Revolutionary war, the muskets were often ordered to be loaded with "Buck and Ball".
A large solid ball and several buckshot.

It can still work, but the larger ball or slug tends to disrupt the pattern, so you may have patterns with holes in it due to the larger slug disrupting it.
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Old January 13, 2008, 10:40 PM   #4
rem870hunter
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i saw the same shells several months ago on gunbroker.com. around the same price or maybe a dollar cheaper. i am thinking about getting a box or 2 and trying them. i would like to see what happens at hunting and HD ranges.
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Old January 13, 2008, 11:09 PM   #5
Maser
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Looks like it's gonna have a beefy recoil even as a 2 3/4" load.
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Old January 14, 2008, 02:28 AM   #6
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I don't see the point:

if the penetration of the ball is needed (due to distance or what have you), then the #1 buck won't penetrate enough and is useless;

if the #1 buck is adequate (as it would be at most in-house ranges), then the heavy ball is slug-like overkill, and it would make more sense to have additional #1 buckshot in its place (which create multiple wound channels and thus a higher chance of hitting a vital spot)

Seems like a solution in search of a problem to me.
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Old January 14, 2008, 07:03 AM   #7
Double Naught Spy
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#1 buckshot size

Quote:
Seems like a solution in search of a problem to me.
Maybe you don't understand the complexities of the problem.

First, there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to self defense. You can't stop an attacker too much in a life or death situation. Second, the buck and ball concept worked well enough because it made a single loading useful at multiple distances. Third, the load will give penetration through more barrier types than just the buckshot.

You are assuming that home defense will only be at short range and barrier free for everyone and that simply isn't the case
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Old January 14, 2008, 07:06 AM   #8
rem870hunter
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i forgot to mention this important bit

please keep in mind that the idea of a load like this is over 200 years old. the american revolutionary war soldiers and militia used this in battle. the british and their allies/mercenaries typically marched shoulder to shoulder in a tight line . the british were armed with muskets and the american soldiers were too but many also had rifles. it may have developed to inflict more wounds or to kill more soldiers. either way, it was a kinda like a shotgun versus a rifle within 100 yards. it was also volley type firing . one side shoots then reloads while the other side was shooting at them. it went back and forth until one side lost too many men and gave up or until most of the men lay dead or wounded on the battlefield.
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Old January 14, 2008, 01:10 PM   #9
.45 COLT
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If the ball strikes the target, then the buck is not necessary, but in many situations the ball may be off target, or there may be multiple targets. The idea of Ball and Buck is, as noted, sound and very old. I load a lot of "unusual" shotgun loads. My 2 3/4" Ball and Buck is a .69" Ball and three 00 Buckshot. For 3", I add another three Buck.

The idea in the ammunition cited seems to be get a few more Buck in the load and still keep the weight to 1 1/2 ounces. It might work very well for its intended purpose.

DC
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Old January 14, 2008, 03:03 PM   #10
dmxx99
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Maybe one of these days I will combine .72 caliber ball and #4 buck shot behind it.
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Old January 14, 2008, 10:00 PM   #11
workinwifdakids
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The concept does call to the earliest days of America, so I think it's a sound concept. By 'sound concept' I'm saying it's within the realm of an acceptable self-defense round. It's not some 'exotic' round crammed with kerosene-soaked flechettes interspersed with rat feces and an innocent sounding name like "Blink and Die, Scum."

BTW, you're paying less than a dollar a round, so I'd pick up a box!
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Old January 15, 2008, 07:27 PM   #12
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I think I will stick with buckshot. I use 00 or 1 buck.
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Old January 24, 2008, 08:18 PM   #13
wnycollector
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here is a great review that a friend of mine did on this type of shotgun ammo.
www.gunweek.com/2007/feature0815.html
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Old January 28, 2008, 04:59 AM   #14
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Centurion Multi-Defense Buckshot works just fine - out of my 18" 870 with an extended ported choke tube. Patterns great at 25 yds. and the "kick" ain't that bad. Expect that any BG who might be on the receiving end may wish he'd never got into the situation.

I keep 3 rds. of the Centurion Multi-defense shells backed up by 3 "normal" 00 shells.
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Old January 28, 2008, 05:32 AM   #15
Rigby1962
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One of the reasons I like the shotgun for HD is the use of #1 buck or smaller. While there is no guarantee that you will not penetrate a couple of layers of drywall your chances go down. To where at least if you do through, hopefully there wont be much energy left to do to much damage on the other side. To me the use of a single large projectile defeats one of the benefits of the shotgun.
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Old January 30, 2008, 08:43 PM   #16
BubbaZinetti
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I agree w/ Neophyte, too much penetration for indoors. Just stick to #1 buck, at close range it'll be more than adequate, with less likelihood of getting a neighbor involved via collateral damage
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Old May 9, 2009, 11:32 PM   #17
PAINTBALLFREAK
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i use a 50 call. Ball with no. 4 buck pellets behind it with nitro powder

allso rio brand 00 buck lots of kick tho
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Old May 14, 2009, 06:08 PM   #18
A_McDougal
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The concept of no-plumbing outhouses has been around for a long time, and is technically sound, but I'm going to stick with the flush toilet.
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Old May 14, 2009, 07:07 PM   #19
1911 Shooter
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# 2 lead makes a nice, self defense load.
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