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Old December 10, 2007, 06:52 PM   #1
scaryFORDman
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Your info and opinion is needed

I am a 40 y/o man who killed my 1st deer this year with a 12 ga Mossberg.
Everyone is telling me to geta muzzleloader and hunt deer with it.
Give me your recomendations for my 1st smokepole for around $200
I also noticed that some utilize percussion caps and others 209 shotgun primers......is there ANY advantage from one to the other?
I have looked at several different kinds, I sorta liked the Transitions with the drop breech, or the Break open CVA Wolf.
I am looking for some education on this topic, help a brother out...will ya?
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Old December 10, 2007, 07:38 PM   #2
Hawg
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Find a good used Thomson Center Hawken or Renegade and forget about the modern crap.................Well you asked for opinions, you got one. My cousin hunts with a Wolf, she likes it, that's all I know about it.
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Old December 10, 2007, 07:41 PM   #3
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And I'm going to suggest you look at some of the modern rifles.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...bcategory&rid=
Mainly cause they fit your budget.
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Old December 10, 2007, 08:32 PM   #4
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By looking at the list of guns you have, seems that the muzzleloader you want to buy would be your primary deer hunting weapon.

You have two choices, the more traditional side hammer, or a modern rifle. The sidehammer, I would pick up a used TC Hawkins on one of the gun auctions for $200 to $250.

If you choose the modern way, I would consider spending a little more money. I like the Traditions Pursuit Pro 50 caliber, easy to use and easy to clean, very accurate.
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Old December 11, 2007, 01:18 AM   #5
arcticap
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For the beginner, the price of the gun really isn't important.
What's important is learning how to do it and buying all of the accessories that you need.
You have to keep them clean or they will rust or not shoot well because they get too fouled up with powder and/or plastic residue. It can be a lot of work.
The modern #209 guns shoot plastic sabots with bullets and have to be swabbed out very often, like every 2 or 3 shots or they can't be loaded & fired anymore. But when clean they are more accurate for long range hunting and shooting. They are also a little bit more reliable for the beginner. But the bullets are a lot more expensive.
The Traditional sidehammer guns shoot #11 caps and have a medium twist for shooting patched round balls, sabots or pure lead conical bullets. They can usually be loaded and fired more easily and more times between swabbing and needing to be cleaned. It depends on how much powder is loaded into it, but for plinking fun, target shooting and hunting up to 65 - 75 yards (100 yards if you're gun is really good), then traditional guns are way more fun.
Load less powder and you can have fun shooting all afternoon, and round balls and patches are cheap, or cast your own.
But the premium saboted bullets are a little too expensive to shoot the inlines all afternoon.
Once you choose what kind of rifle that you want to shoot, then you can ask your friends to teach you how to use it, or come back here and ask us.
If you want to look at some decent guns at some of the lowest prices, click on the link below. Consider the nickel Traditions .50 Deerhunter the Lyman Deerstalker or Trade Rifle for starters, or buy an inline and shoot the more expensive bullets. A .54 caliber 225 grain round ball will shoot an elk if you wanted too. It's so much fun, your friends will wish that they were shooting one, and some even have very nice wood stocks.
I shoot an inline for deer hunting, but 99% of the time I just shoot patched round balls with reduced powder loads.
This outfit also has flat rate shipping until the end of December. See what you like the best. Click on muzzleloading in the left hand column to take you to the BP rifles, and visit the company websites to get more info. on the rifles, or just ask us.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/

Last edited by arcticap; December 11, 2007 at 01:50 AM.
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Old December 11, 2007, 03:32 PM   #6
Pahoo
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Quote:
How good is good enough???
I know a fellow who hunts with an in-line .54 pistol and that's his choice. In the end, I feel you are looking for performance and results for the task at hand. You have to determine what your expectations are. Round balls are limited to "Mass" and mass kills. But then again, more deer have been killed with round balls than conicals. Make the choice that you feel will meet or exceed your expectations as well as your budget and effort. I hunt with both but for different reasons and expectations. Your part of the country is much like mine and both would work well for you. You are probably going to mount a scope and traditionals are harder to fit but not impossible. Review previous posts and talk to your buddies, then make your best choice. My serious hunters are in-lines and my passion, is in Traditionals. Not much help, Am I ???
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Old December 12, 2007, 07:55 AM   #7
biermkr
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Congratulations on your first deer, I also took my first deer this year at the age of 41.
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Old December 12, 2007, 07:40 PM   #8
scaryFORDman
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would anyone care to comment on the difference between percussion caps and 209 primers? Advantages? disadvantages?
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Old December 12, 2007, 08:12 PM   #9
Pahoo
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Basically:
#11 primer Cap;
Mostly used in traditional rifles with loose powder. Just about the minimum ignition and not recomended for three 50/50 pellets. Harder to handle, less fire, may fail in wet weather. Not very expensive.

Musket Cap; Hotter ignition than the #11, easier to handle. For the most part, just a bigger #11. Not very expensive.

#206 Shotgun primer; Latest and greatest, So far the hottest ignition. Recommended for those three 50/50 pellets. More expensive more weather proof. Some are hard to control as reportedly it's force starts pushing your shot string before full ignition. You will find reduced power 209's and advertised as muzzleloading primers.

Now, as I've stated before in other replies, I recommend that you get one of the books by Sam Fadala. He is very good and goes into great detail about the shot string as well as priming systems. Well worth the money. You talk as if you have a choice and that might not be the case as it all depends on your choice of rifles. Most inlines now require 209's and nothing else. Good luck and be safe!!!
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Old December 12, 2007, 08:19 PM   #10
Throckmorton
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Pellets vs granular powder

The newer inlines can use the pelletized powders.The sidelocks cannot.
The pellets are easier to handle...just drop the appropriate number of them down the barrel.

The inlines are easier to clean..you cannot remove the rear plug on most sidelock guns that I know of.

Having said that I shoot a sidleock gun and would never own an inline.Just my likes,yours may vary.
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Old December 12, 2007, 09:57 PM   #11
Hawg
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Quote:
The inlines are easier to clean..you cannot remove the rear plug on most sidelock guns that I know of.
I can clean my sidelock faster than my cousin can clean her inline.
You can but it's tough to remove but why would you want to? It's not necessary.
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Old December 12, 2007, 10:37 PM   #12
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Before you decide on an inline, check your state's laws FIRST. Some states outlaw such for hunting. Other states require traditional caps and/or exposed to the elements.

I hunt with Hawken replicas and love them.

Pops
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Old December 12, 2007, 10:47 PM   #13
44capnball
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There's a lot of choices out there, but you asked for opinions so here goes.

I like the Minie Ball and a 54 or 58 caliber sidelock. I would take one of these over an Inline any day. But, to each his own. It might help if you could try a friend's rifle first, maybe you could try one of each type. If highest velocity is all you're after then the inline is what a lot of people choose. What the big sidelocks lack in velocity they make up for in giant hunks of lead with momentum. They're also fun.

Any decent muzzleloader, 45 caliber or above will take deer cleanly with a proper shot and the right load. So choose something you really like to shoot.

My .58 Minie Ball bullets weigh about 590 grains cast with pure lead. I think it is lyman 575213. It is a big slug. More accurate than a shotgun slug. I also shoot a 300-some-odd grain conical that's very accurate.
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Old December 13, 2007, 03:44 AM   #14
arcticap
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It's not the #11 cap per se, but the proximity of the flash to the powder that causes some of the misfire problems in traditional guns, along with keeping the nipple clean and in good shape. Alternate nipples for using different ignition caps are available.
I have an inline that uses #11 caps and I never had a misfire with it, even shooting it out after the end of a hunting season.
Some sidelocks have optional fast twist barrels available to purchase for shooting sabots or conicals, and in different calibers and with or without rifling.
Then there are smoothbore rifles too, that can also be used as shotguns for turkey, fowling and small game.
There are several less common actions like the underhammers and mule ear locks that are considered by many to have faster and more direct ignitions than sidelocks, and rival the inlines. Both are historically earlier designs from about the 1830's or shortly thereafter, and which were still being produced recently.

The Mossberg 500 has an optional muzzle loading barrel available, although there may be inexpensive rifles available for the same price, it works well.







http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=861787

Read 2 reviews from Midway:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductrev...oductid=861787

(8-32 to 10-32 thread adaptors are easy to find and cost only $2-$3)
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Old December 13, 2007, 08:02 AM   #15
biermkr
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I have the Mossberg muzzle loader barrel. I shoot pure lead lubed with my own recipe, hollow point and hollow base 385 grain bullets with loose 777 ffg powder. It works great. The only drawback is cleaning the receiver and action after shooting (I normally do this anyway when I use the shotgun for waterfowl if it gets wet, so I am pretty quick at putting it back together). It does require disassembly of the action parts (not trigger group) to clean really well. The barrel is a snap to clean. Remove and clean with hot soapy water and a bore mop. The breech plug does not come out, but is still easy to clean.

Last edited by biermkr; December 13, 2007 at 08:08 AM. Reason: added more info
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Old December 28, 2007, 04:47 PM   #16
llriffel
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everyone has mad real good commits in reguards to your question for me I would have to say ask yourself if you want to go modern or triditional for me it has to be the later my reasion for going bp is the chalenge of the old days plus. once you make the choice of modern or triditional then you will get some even better ideas and advice from the this forum and they give good advice and have helped me
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