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Old December 2, 2007, 05:54 PM   #1
mike72
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44 spl?

I am new to reloading and have a question about the load for 44 spl. I have bought 210 gr JHP to reload using HP38. The load data I have goes from 200 gr jacketed bullet to 220 gr jacketed bullet. There is nothing about 210 gr bullets. Should I go with the 200gr or 220gr data? Is it common to run across? Also does the gr of the bullet affect the over all length. I did what the instructions said to set the seating die and set a 210 bullet in to a un primer brass. It set at 1.497 not 1.615 like the max length shows. The bullet looks to have set to the same depth in the brass as a factory load so does this make a difference being that 1.615 is the max overall. I do not want to set the bullet to deep.
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Old December 2, 2007, 06:00 PM   #2
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I load 44 Spc but I haven't loaded any jacketed bullets in quite a while. And I've never used the powder you're using (nothing wrong with it, just never have tried it)

My rule of thumb is to never load max powder charges my first run out. If I need/want factory specs, then I'll buy factory ammo. Most of my reloading is for plinking/practice.

With that said, I would err on the side of the lower charge. It should take slightly more powder to push a heavier bullet, but again, look at your charts and see what the pressure and fps is. If they are similar between the two bullets, I would stay somewhere in the middle and only load up twelve to eighteen. Keep notes of how much powder you used, and when you're at the range, make notes of how the round performed.

It normally takes me several shooting trips before I find a load I really like--that's why I only load a few first time out.

As far as bullet length and overall cartridge length, I'm always more concerned with seating depth rather than overall length of cartridge.

There will be others that can/will give you a lot more specific advice on this, I'm sure, but for now hopefully this will address your concerns.

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Old December 2, 2007, 07:55 PM   #3
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I totaly agree with TexasSeaRay

I have loaded 10s of thousands of 44 special for the 6 guns that I own and I will tell you the same that I have told every one else. Always go on the safe side when reloading. I have seen two guns ruined from hand loads and it was a simple act of pushing the recommend loads and in one case the wrong powder. One left an AR15 in many, many pieces and the other a wonderful old (early 60’s) Smith 29 with a cylinder that was much larger than the other and he was shooting 44 SP.
Does the bullet have a canalure? I stay with bullets with a line that runs around them that is called a canalure which is where the end of the case should be crimped into.
As far as seating the bullet look at the depth of the bullet when comparing it to a case without a bullet. You want the bullet deep enough to clear the end of the cylinder BUT you don’t want to compress powder.
In some types of powder, compressing powder can be as dangerous as using to much powder.
Also you dont want to much gap, the powder should fill the case as much as possible so that the primer hole always makes contact with the powder.
The best powder that I have found for target and over all use is HURCO. It’s a little dirty but very accurate.
Have fun and welcome to the 44 Special NUT world, which I am a senior member of.
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Old December 2, 2007, 08:08 PM   #4
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Do not agree with

“It should take slightly more powder to push a heavier bullet,”
That is true if you want to push the heaver bullet at the same velocity, BUT that equals more pressure. In fact the heaver bullet with the same powder charge will also make a heaver pressure. That’s why a heavier bullet takes less powder for a proper load.
I am not at home right now or I would look at all my books for a load that might work for you but use the lighter bullet load and stay 10% under max. Use the min to max load and subtract 10%. Your also going to find that the max load will not give you the best accuracy but that some where near the middle load will. Don’t worry, your pushing a big bullet fast enough to rune any bad guys day.
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Old December 2, 2007, 08:16 PM   #5
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The bullets do have a canalure. That should help with my seating questions. I have a Lee scale and a little dandy powder measure. I checked one to the other to make sure I am using the correct amount of powder. They don't measure the same. The no 9 rotor for the lil dan = 5.0gr but on my lee scale it shows 4.6gr. This is not the amount I am planing to use I am just checking for accuracy. I don't know the one to be correct.
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Old December 2, 2007, 08:19 PM   #6
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Ozzieman,

What are the specific recipes you use... if you don't mind me asking?

I too just want to load 44 Special for plinking. Like to load some JHP and lead, but both on the mild side.
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Old December 2, 2007, 08:25 PM   #7
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mike72,

Be careful there, .4gr can make a difference. Depending on powder and bullet weight, probably not too much if you're loading in the middle, but it might make your loads quite a bit hotter than you had planned. Some more experienced folks will hopefully pipe up here.
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Old December 2, 2007, 09:28 PM   #8
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Are these bullets Sierra 210 JHC .4295 dia ? What firearm ? I load Nosler 200gr JHP(.429 dia) for a S&W 696 with 6.2 WLP-6.5gr Fed 150 of W231, I believe W-231 and HP-38 are the same powder. My guess is that 5.0gr of HP-38 would be close for a starting charge. Seat and crimp in the cannalure.
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Old December 2, 2007, 10:41 PM   #9
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I got the bullets at a show. I don't know the brand but they are .4295 and 210gr. I have a Taurus 2566 titanium snub. The only data I have is a Lee book and it doesn't show a 210gr jacketed bullet just 200gr and 220gr. The 200gr starts at 5.5 and max 6.0 with HP38. I know the data should be out there for this 210gr I just don't know where to find it or if I can adjust this load info to work with this bullet. I read the info on pressure and powder reduction. All of this is very confusing to me.
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Old December 2, 2007, 11:09 PM   #10
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If you cannot find any more definitive data I would start with 5rnds with 5.0gr of HP-38, 5@ 5.2, 5@5.4, and 5@5.6 . I would use a heavy crimp, take a dial caliper with you to check for bullets creeping out of the case during recoil.
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Old December 3, 2007, 07:28 PM   #11
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Thanks for the info. Heavy crimp being .002 or more?
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Old December 3, 2007, 09:44 PM   #12
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Sorry grymster2007

I’m not home right now and have been away for several weeks so I’m not near my books or data sheets. The Hurco for a 240 GR lead bullet was some where in the higher 4's or lower 5 GR if memory serves me but at my age you “must” check a RCBS loading book, it has the load for Hurco and the dead center load worked best.
The neat thing about the Hurco load is that in a good N frame Smith it shoots like an L frame with 38’s.
I will be home this weekend and will reply with the load I found worked best. It worked very well in both N framed Smiths and Charterarms Bulldogs and it spit a 240 Gr bullet out the end of a Charter at 730 FPS.
Remember folks, screwing up hand loads has done more for the ant-gunners in getting rid of guns than anything they have done (blowing up guns) so be careful out there and always stay on the caution side.
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Old December 3, 2007, 09:52 PM   #13
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mike72

Heavy crimps are great if your loading very hot loads but for lighter loads there not that necessary. You need the crimp to be only heavy enough to hold the bullet in the case as the round next to it is being fired.
The heavier the crimp the shorter the life span will be for the case.
Also over crimping the case can cause a deformation in the upper end of the case and make it a poor fit in the chamber.
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Old December 3, 2007, 10:41 PM   #14
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I am using Lee carbide dies. I have tried to set a crimp with the seating die like the paper work said. There is no crimp with this process. It seems to hit a stop like there is no taper to the die. Would it be best to buy a crimp die or could I not adjusting it properly.
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Old December 3, 2007, 11:38 PM   #15
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I am I cannot find info for a 44 spl Taurus 2566 ???
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Old December 4, 2007, 08:06 PM   #16
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Sorry it is a 445 total titanium 44spl ultra lite made in 02. I thought it was like my model 85 38spl with the model number inside the frame. Apparently that number is not the model number.
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Old December 5, 2007, 01:40 AM   #17
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Here's one of my Nos 200gr JHP .44 spl loaded for my 696 ;
reloading 002.jpg The bullets stay put and do not creep forward in the cylinder during recoil, when I was testing this load I would shoot four and the measure the last for a change in the COAL. Your 445 is a lighter gun and a firmer crimp may be needed, I would think 240gr bullets could be a problem for a light revolver.
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Old December 5, 2007, 11:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Sorry grymster2007
Quite all right sir.

Quote:
it spit a 240 Gr bullet out the end of a Charter at 730 FPS
Sounds like what I’m looking for.

Quote:
Here's one of my Nos 200gr JHP .44 spl loaded for my 696
Pretty nice photo... macro is not easy! Is that a taper crimp? Mine look more "rolled". Yours actually looks lighter than the crimp I put on my lead Cowboy bullets. I’m going to load maybe two more sets of 10 each with crimp backed off both times and take some calipers with me when I shoot.
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Old December 5, 2007, 08:56 PM   #19
mike72
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So that's the way it is suppose to look. I set the bullet a little further in to a length of 1.570 and was able to get a .003 crimp on it. Is that considered a heavy crimp? Using the bullet seating die to crimp would that be a tapper crimp or a roll crimp?
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Old December 5, 2007, 10:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Is that a taper crimp?
I use a RCBS #18612 three piece carbide set. As for the crimp in the pic it works well with that bullet if I go much heavier it could distort the case mouth, the sizer die provides good tension on the bullet. The crimp for this 240gr Laser cast looks a little different reloading 006.jpg and the bullets stay put with 6.9gr of Unique, lead is more slick than copper and requires more crimp with heavy loads to hold the bullets in place under recoil while in the cylinder.

There's a right way to do things, and then there's the way I do it.
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Old December 6, 2007, 08:43 PM   #21
mike72
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Thanks for all the info and input. I have a few 44spl ready to test. If all goes well I'll be ready to try my hand with my 45acp next.
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Old December 7, 2007, 11:01 AM   #22
grymster2007
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Quote:
I use a RCBS #18612 three piece carbide set.
I use RCBS also. I'll have to check the model number. The crimp in your latest photo looks more like the crimps I'm getting.

Again; pretty nice shot! I'll have to try some photos of my cartridges.
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Old December 9, 2007, 02:27 AM   #23
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Quote:
Again; pretty nice shot!
Thanks, I don't have a macro lens, I use a 32mm objective from a trashed scope to take the shot, I turned off the flash and used a reading light behind the camera, it would have turned out better if I had used a diffuser.
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Old December 9, 2007, 04:35 PM   #24
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to grymster2007

I’m back from my trip and I had a chance to check out my books
The loads that I used for a charter and all the other 44 sp guns that I use are the following.
Herco was 6.0 Gr. (6.4 was max and 5.8 was min). It was very accurate but a little dirty. Although the book numbers for max/min velocity was 792 and 721 FPS I got an average of 730 fps. The Speer book numbers were taken from the same gun that I was shooting them in which was a charter arms bulldog.
231 was 5.4 GR (Max is 5.7 and min was 5.2), velocities were a little closer to what I was getting Max being 787 and min being 719.
I tried loads from min to max and none showed any signs of pressure but the lower loads were a lot more accurate. The accuracy loads were done out of my custom built gun which is a Smith 28 with the chambers drilled out to 44 sp and a Douglas 3 inch barrel.
Shot in a Ransom rest the Herco put 6 rounds at 50 yards in a circle of less than 1.5 inches. This was done over 12 years ago and I still have the target. The 231 was a hair under 2 inches
Personally I would still use and do the 231 powder since it works the cleanest and is the best powder that I have ever used for a 45ACP.
Again be safe and check out these loads from a good manual.
You can’t tell from the internet who you can trust and who you can’t so the price of a good a good Speer reloading manual can save your gun and your life.
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Old December 9, 2007, 04:45 PM   #25
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6.9gr of Unique, 240gr Laser cast

Since the max load of Unique is 6.3 GR in the Speer manual for a lead 240 GR bullet, this is not the load that he is looking for. The problem with pushing a lead bullet this fast is your going to leave lead in the barrel. These kinds of pressure the lead bullet needs a gas check.
Even a jacked 240 GR bullet with unique the max is 6.3 GR.
For me the right way is the best way.
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