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Old November 30, 2007, 12:31 AM   #1
poor_red_neck
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Join Date: November 22, 2007
Location: Smithfield/Selma, NC
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Constantly shooting up and to the left?

So I had a range visit today. Shot roughly 400 rounds.

Gun is a Taurus 24/7 Pro in .40
10 yards at full life size target
Ammo: Winchester 165 grain FMJ


The sights are on dead exactly. I put the gun in a rest, and it is exactly where a Heine sight should be. Took a little while to get it right left to right, but it is dead on.

I'm shooting at 10 yards, and about 1 1/2 inches up and to the left.

First shot is always dead on, then they start to travel.

No rapid shots, no double taps.

Now after a good volley, I will remove the magazine, cycle the action and dry fire. I'm actually dipping the gun down to the right in anticipation of the recoil. How am I still shotting up to the left?

I have a tight group, just not where I want it.

I'm not one who wants to shoot competitively, and if you look at my targets, I'm pretty deadly, hitting any vital areas I aim at (heart, gut organs, head).

Another problem is after about 20 rounds, I'll get a random shot waaay left. I've practiced my technique, I'm holding the weapon properly, trying to keep a loose grab on it, and let the gun do what it wants to do. I've tried the death grip and it does not work for me. I prefer to hold it a little loose. Like a wet bar of soap. That way the gun will move where it needs to move, but getting back on target is something I just can't seem to do.

Now I am new to shooting, and have put close to 4000 rounds threw my pistol as of tonight. I'm afraid that practicing is going to do nothing for me, as if I'm doing it the wrong way, I'm just going to keep learning the wrong way and correcting it later will just become more difficult.

There is really nowhere around me that offers classes in my price range. I can always goto blackwater, but my god their classes are expensive.

I've seen a target posted here before, with a "pie chart" type grid laying out what's happening when your bullets are trailing in that direction. No luck finding it though.

Any suggestions?
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Old November 30, 2007, 09:37 AM   #2
3gunfreak
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Try a little more finger on the trigger. Sounds like you may be pushing the weapon on the trigger break. The trigger should be on the pad of your trigger finger(where your finger print is).

Also try when you reset the trigger for a second shot, only let the trigger come forward just enough to reset the trigger. You should feel a crisp "click" that is as far as you need to go. Once it clicks you are ready for your second shot.

Try practicing pulling the trigger straight back. It is natural for humans to curl their fingers like your making a fist. This is tranferred to the trigger causing you to pull or push the trigger, whatever the case may be. Try bending your first finger at the second knuckle so that your finger forms a right angle(keeping your first and second digit straight). It is kind of uncomfortable but it is good training for pulling your finger straight back.

I am not an expert by no means but I shoot a lot(competitively and for work) and these are some of the little tricks and exercises that instuctors have passsed on to me.

Happy shooting.....don't get frustrated and don't forget to breathe. Slow and controlled.....speed will come later.
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Old November 30, 2007, 11:52 PM   #3
poor_red_neck
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Now that I think about it, I may need to put more finger on there.

When I FIRST started shooting, I was putting the trigger on the first knuckle. Then after watching several videos online, learned that you want to use the tip of the finger as my pistol is DA/SA combo. The trigger pull goes back about 95% before the firing pin fires. I don't know if the "soft" trigger pull is a SA or DA.

What would a glock be considered? Where the trigger pull is pretty stiff?

It didn't take me too long to get used to the trigger on the taurus. I know when its going to release every time.

So are you saying to not let the trigger go all the way forward after the shot? To leave it "half way" pressed in? I think I'm just not interpreting it correctly. I'm letting the trigger go all the way back to its home position then pulling the trigger again.

I'll try centering the trigger between the joint and tip. I had it positioned a little more close to the tip of the finger.





I'm also kind of stuck at a crossroad.

As I've said, the "death grip" does not work for me. I'm very inaccurate. My room mate shoots this way, with this weak hand basically pressing backward on his strong hand. His strong hand is trying to push forward, and weak hand is going opposite. Recoil does not seem to affect him as much. Works great for him, does NOTHING for me.

So after much research, I tried the "wet bar of soap" grip. Just enough pressure on the grip to keep it steady, but loose enough that the gun will move in the direction it wants to. Works great for me not anticipating or trying to over correct the recoil coming back, but leaves the 2nd shot taking tooo long to get back on target.
Well, with FMJ target ammo with a mild load, it doesn't really bother me that much. It still is too much recoil to get my second shot lined up as fast as I would like to.
Now if you throw my Speer Gold Dots JHP into the mix.... I can feel it is a much more potent round. I think they are both 165 grain though. I tried a magazine of 2 FMJ, then 2 JHP Gold dots, then 2 more FMJ to see if there really was a difference. My god yes. The gold dots are not +P.... atleast I don't think they are. They feel and sound alot more potent though.

Thanks for the advice, I'll work on the trigger finger a little more.

I notice you're in NC. Where abouts? I'm really hoping somebody does a CAR/IPDS class in the area soon.
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Old December 2, 2007, 10:52 PM   #4
3gunfreak
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Try this with a clear weapon. During your dry firing exercises, after you pull the trigger slowly let off the trigger. You will feel (and sometimes hear a click). That's the firing pin resetting itself. That is as far as you need to go. You can pull the trigger for the second shot. If you practice this you will be less apt to snatch the trigger. Slow, steady constant pressure on the trigger.

As for the grip, that is something I have found to have fixed with practice. You don't won't to choke it but you don't want a light grip( I have seen pistols not cycle because of a loose grip). Remember your hand is part of the mechanics. The gun wants to go backward when fired. Your hand is the backstop that stops it and allows the slide to cycle properly.

Glocks are easy to learn on (I have 3 myself 35,33,22)
The internal safety gives them a long trigger pull. Sometime the anticipation as you are slowly pulling the trigger make you want to snatch the trigger. Once you get past that and become comfortable with the shot, the rest is cake.

By, the way Raleigh. I shoot IDPA in Granville County as my work and honey-doo schedule will allow. There are a few IDPA pistol matches in Raleigh.
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Old December 3, 2007, 01:14 AM   #5
poor_red_neck
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Join Date: November 22, 2007
Location: Smithfield/Selma, NC
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The problem with dry firing my taurus, is it's a SA/DA combo.

It's single action after the first cycle, but after that resorts to double action, making a much stiffer trigger pull. You have to re-cock the slide to get it back to "single action" mode like you were firing. I think I have those two correct... single action = very far easy trigger pull and double action = stiff trigger pull because the trigger is physically cocking the firing pin. Right?

Anywho, it makes dry firing the weapon very difficult as I have to reset it after each "shot."
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Old December 5, 2007, 10:25 AM   #6
TBR
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This may be the target you're looking for

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...5&d=1192490230

I found it in this thread, posted by armored man, in post # 35 http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...=261181&page=2

it is the last attachment on the bottom of his post.
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Old December 16, 2007, 07:35 PM   #7
TargetTerror
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2 things jump to mind: 1) you are flinching in some form or 2) you are accurate but the gun recoils differently in your grip than in a rest.

Flinching has been covered by other people, but if you are not sure, try shooting off of the bench. Be VERY conscious of your trigger pull - slow and deliberate. See if you are still off by the same amount.

Another issue could be that you are 100% consistent, but the gun just shoots to a different POI in your hand v in a rest. You said that you sighted in the gun "in a rest." I'm assuming that this means some sort of ransom rest arrangement, or something where you aren't holding the gun 100% on your own? If so, the way that the gun interacts with the rest can be different enough from how it recoils in your hand to throw off the POI. For this reason, I just shoot for consistency/groups and move my sights accordingly. yes, this is harder with fixed sights, but set your windage and then adjust your elevation as necessary.

To see for sure if this is the case, you need to shoot the gun from you hands with your arms in a rest. A sandbag rest works best. Hold the gun as you normally would, then rest your wrists on the bag. Put your wrists such that they are well supported, but the gun isn't 100% supported by your hand, not the rest itself.
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