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Old November 27, 2007, 12:19 AM   #1
rem870hunter
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inline rifle problem or not?

i have a traditions tracker 209 in .50 cal. i have hunted with it since 2001. until last year it never gave me trouble. it misfired 2 times, the first time, i loaded it early in the morning carried it all day in the woods. dry cold day, no rain or snow. i took the primer out closed the bolt. i left the powder and bullet inside. cased it and it sat muzzle up in my closet for 2 days. took it out in the woods again. went to shoot to empty at the end. it made an off sound, i piece of burning embers(powder??) flew out of the barrel. bullet did'nt hit what i was aiming for. my dad took it home and cleaned it . loaded and carried it the next day.went to empty by shooting and had the same results. i shot it earlier yesterday. the first 3 did'nt fire right. i capped it 3 times before loading. the next 4 fired good. and hit their targets too. after that the next 3 i shot went all ove the place. firing right too is it possible that i need to fire a fouling shot then load the barrel? either 50 grain or 100 grains under a patch or an actual shot with bullet. the date on powder is from august 2001. it has been kept in a cool dry basement. the primers are good too. from 2004. the first 3 bullets went down fairly easy. it got tighter after that. after cleaning the rifle a light swab of wonderlube goes down inside. this is a habit my father has i picked up. could this be the problem? not a tight enough gas seal until barrel is dirty?
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Old November 27, 2007, 03:43 PM   #2
arcticap
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You don't mention which type or brand of powder you were using, but having a squeaky clean barrel shouldn't affect ignition.
There have been reports of inconsistent ignition and accuracy problems with some forms of APP due to age, storage and with using solid sticks versus loose powder. Is the powder sticky or gummy at all?
It's not the discontinued Goex Clear Shot powder, is it? Lots of folks complained about that powder!
Swabbing the old bore butter out of the barrel and making sure that the flash channel in the breech plug is open before you load the powder would help to insure that ignition isn't being blocked somehow.
After that, the performance issues usually either involve the powder itself or what happens during cleaning;
Powder fouling getting pushed down into the breech, or excess oil, solvent, water, lube accumulating in the barrel.
Some folks foul their barrel just by shooting off a primer, others don't take fouling shoots at all and prefer loading a clean barrel.

Are you shooting bullets with plastic sabots or plain pure lead conical bullets? What size/weight are they?
Some folks use wool Wonder Wad bore buttons under plain conical bullets as a gas check, or other types of over powder wads.

Covering the muzzle with tape or a balloon helps to keep moisture out of the barrel during hunting season. And bringing an ice cold rifle into the warm house at night can cause condensation to form inside the barrel which may hurt the powder. Many folks leave their gun outside at night to prevent barrel condensation.

Sounds like your powder may not be too good though. Are you cleaning out the flash channel?
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Old November 27, 2007, 03:56 PM   #3
Pahoo
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  • Check to see how much mud you are getting between shots, if any??
Need a more complete description of your "Shot String" but I am seeing incomplete combustion as I feel you are pushing out too much unignited powder.
  • What and how much propellant are you using?
  • What projectile are you using and how heavy is it?
  • What primer are you using?
  • What was the condition of your bore before loading?
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Old November 27, 2007, 11:08 PM   #4
rem870hunter
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hogdon pyrodex 50 grain pellets. 2 per loading
250 grain lead R.E.A.L. bullet
federal shotgun 209 primer
bore clean and heavily swabbed with wonderlube.

(my fault for not looking. normally its a light swab of it.)


capped 2 times before loading, always

i looked at paperwork inside pellet box. a few hours ago. it says if i use lead conical bullets i must use a wad between powder and bullet. otherwise what happened will happen. called local shop they don't carry them. suggested sabots. was thinking of getting some to tryout. was told because of the 1-28" twist of the barrel the sabots are better than lead ball or bullets. the rifle was designed for them he also said.

i just bought today CCI 209 shogun primers
1 box of 777 powder pellets


will be going to store in the morning to look at sabots. he has a cheapshot brand in 240 grain lead bullet in a plastic sabot. 20 pack for 6.95.

an idea i have is can i just use a patch with a little bit of wonderlube on it. between the powder and the bullet? what i don't really understand is. back in 2001 my father and i sighted the rifles in with the lead bullets. sighted in 2 inches high and 50 yards. the shots that fired right the other day went 2inches high and 1 and 1/2 inches left. shooting at 50 yards. why then was there no trouble but last year there is? and this year?
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Old November 28, 2007, 02:34 PM   #5
arcticap
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You've got to be careful shooting conicals. They start out tight at the muzzle but get much looser as they are rammed down the bore. Then the bullet & pellets can slide up the barrel too if you carry the rifle pointed down. While this might not have happened with the REAL bullet, if it does you can ring or slightly bulge your barrel and ruin it's accuracy.
So a rifle carried around hunting after it's loaded with a conical can be risky. It often needs to be carried with the muzzle straight up in the air to help keep the load down in the bottom of the barrel.
You're probably better off with sabots if you can keep your barrel clean, but why put a lubed patch underneath it? A very, very thin coating of bore butter part way down the bore after the sabot is loaded may be an option to increase accuracy consistency of the first shot if necessary, but when it's really cold the lube can get stiff and increase pressure if you use too much. Try a clean barrel first since sabots load tight, and swab as often as possible so you don't get a bad crud ring. Maybe you can use the conical for easier loading if you need a follow up shot in the field without swabbing. Even a small piece of balled up newspaper can be used as a homemade over powder wad. Just don't make it too tight and flatten it down in the bottom of the bore before ramming the conical. It might create some burning embers after firing so try not to start a fire in the woods.
TC makes a new solvent just for cleaning 777, and the 777 pellets are said to burn dirtier than the loose powder. It can also recoil harder.
Is there any way to use a nipple pick on your #209 nipple between shots to help keep it clear?
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Old November 29, 2007, 11:28 PM   #6
rem870hunter
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i bought a box of sabots. t/c brand cheap shot. 240 lead hp bullet.

hopefully be able to try them in the morning. my dad bought a few packs of powerbelts to try too.

i heard the 777 is good but dirty. shot 4 loads of them and 4 loads of the pyrodex pellets that were old from 2001. at 50 yards the first 2 misfired. i tried 2 of the old loads. the fired good. but bullet went high then low. i shot some at 25 yards thinking maybe its the scope. i put 2 right next each other in a 9 inch paper plate. to the left 1 inch of center and 3 inches above center.


the rifle was'nt to bad cleaning. i ran 3 hot soapy soaking wet patches through the barrel. first 1 was coal black the other 2 weren't too bad . i did'nt even have to use the bore brush. will post results after trying the sabots.

if this don't work. i am gonna have to use a cva hawken hunter, or missouri ranger rifle. with open sights. both haven't been fired in over 5 years.
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Old November 30, 2007, 09:02 PM   #7
rem870hunter
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problem solved.............

i am pretty sure the problem is solved. i shot some of the sabots a few hours ago. all ignited and fired fine. shot first 2 at 25 yards at a 9" paper plate. both hit right next to each other. 4" above center at 12 o'clock. then shot 2 at 50 yards. both went 8" above plate at 11 and 12 o'clock. i adjusted scope down 6". scope adjustment is 1/4" at 100 yards. shot 2 more they went 2" above plate. i ran 2 dry patches and a bore brush through. then reassembled it. shot 2 more. they hit 4" above center of plate. 1 at 12 o'clock on plate and 1 at 12 o'clock 2" to the right outside of the plate. i cleaned it good and swabbed bore with wonderlube1000. i am going to try a few more shots tomorrow if possible . i used all new 777 powder pellets and new 209 primers. i am hoping to get a good group 1 to 1 and 1/2" above center at 50 yards. thank you all for your info and help.
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