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Old November 25, 2007, 03:38 AM   #1
superfast61821
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talk about overgunned.....looking for a fight.

tonight i started at a new post. this site is an unarmed post that i had previously worked at Armed and with a partner for a different company. Apperantly due to finances they opted to go with a unarmed company and guard. Anyhow i get to work to be trained and the guy training me proceeds to tell me how bad the place is and that he never comes out here without a gun. then he shows me all the guns he has on his person totaling 3 9mm and one .22lr

Granted the place is a dump and i don't leave my front door typically without a firearm however i don't break the law or company policies. In IL it's illegal to conceal a loaded weapon so already dudes breaking the law but i was just thinking how would a lawyer look at his personal arsenal if he used just one of the firearms to defend himself.
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Old November 25, 2007, 07:36 AM   #2
Tanzer
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In IL it's illegal to conceal a loaded weapon
Seems like it answers itself.
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Old November 25, 2007, 09:03 AM   #3
joab
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how would a lawyer look at his personal arsenal if he used just one of the firearms to defend himself.
Wouldn't that be four separate charges of carrying a concealed weapon
What would be worse is how the jury is going to look at his personal arsenal

But then I have been known to carry a similar compliment
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Old November 25, 2007, 09:28 PM   #4
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I would find another job ASAP. Neither the location nor the coworker are safe to be near.
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Old November 25, 2007, 11:53 PM   #5
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He is a felon and is the kind of guy who will ruin it for all of us. Chairborne commandos will ruin CCW for the rest of us. this guy should be locked up!!
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Old November 26, 2007, 12:25 AM   #6
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Well, on the other hand this guy may survive a deadly encounter in order to be charged by the authorities. You have to survive in order to be heard in court. Tried by 12 or carried by 6. He is making his choice. You can follow his lead or not. Your choice.

Without knowing all of the details, I refuse to second guess his choice.
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Old November 26, 2007, 01:10 AM   #7
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A lawyer would lick his chops and count up the charges he could tack on in addition to what the police already have. Not to mention the ammo he's giving to the anti's. A liberal jury would be so terrified by the thought of this guy packing 4 weapons I don't even want to think about the sentences they'd lay down.

One of our other members said "judged by 12 or carried by 6"...that is the realist point of view. I guess I'd rather be crying in jail than dead BUT I'd explore my options to get out of that situation and into one where I was comfortable without carrying OR allowed by law to carry.

On a personal note, if I need a small arsenal to feel like I'm safe in my job AND I'm not on SWAT I'd just have to find another job. I know it's not that easy but my life is worth a little more struggle.
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Old November 26, 2007, 03:39 AM   #8
BillCA
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You said this was in Illinois, so this isn't a gun-friendly state. Even still, he may not be in for a CCW violation if the site is private property and the customer doesn't complain.

IF the site really is a poop-hole, and you think you should be armed, you must show your employer why. Find out, for instance, how many assaults occurred in the previous 12 months. How many felony arrests were made. How many calls to police were made. Include any reports of guards being injured, of course. Present that to your boss, indicating that for employee safety guards should be armed due to the number of incidents at the site, including (then list the number of each category).

An accurate report of the local crime/threat condtions puts your employer on notice. A good company will share the info with the client and recommend upgrading the service. If something happens to you, it may then be possible to put some liability on both the company and the client.
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Old November 26, 2007, 04:48 AM   #9
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Their are companies out their they don't want you to carry anything that can be used as a weapon because of libility. It's cheeper to bury you than pay out big bucks in a law suit. I'v worked in the security business along time and have seen some "real" winners. their are the typical warm body "Rent a Guard" noticed I did not use "Rent a Cop" companies because a private person is not a COP theirfore cannot be a rent a cop. Back to the subject matter. Their are some good security companies that hire well trained pro's that pay better . So if your going to stay in this industry invest in yourself and get in the better company.
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Old November 26, 2007, 08:45 AM   #10
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An accurate report of the local crime/threat condtions puts your employer on notice. A good company will share the info with the client and recommend upgrading the service. If something happens to you, it may then be possible to put some liability on both the company and the client.
Bill, I'm the last person on earth to be considered a kiss-a*s, but doggon' it, you manage to make sense in the most tactful ways. You are hereby invited to Christmas dinner to deal with my sister-in-law (bring your hearing protection).
superfast61821, Stack the deck in your favor. Companies are hard to understand when you look upwards from the bottom. The guys in the corner offices walk around mumbling; "Profits-lawsuits=bad", but they are removed from the trenches, and need things to get past the boneheads in the cubicles who mumble; "Look good, make it look good, avoid issues". They need it in the center of their desk, not an inch to the left or right.
Bill's suggestion is worth more than one try. If it doesn't help, stop and think of how much that company would help you if you did get in a jam. In the mean time, ask your partner not to tell you any more info about his arsenal. You know too much already.
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Old November 26, 2007, 10:16 AM   #11
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Quit. You can always get another job, you can never get another life.
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Old November 26, 2007, 10:33 AM   #12
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Sounds like he may have been fluffing his own feathers. Doesn't sound like he knows you all that much, and is showing everything? WOW he is so cool he just doesn't have one but three on him. Really, who shows anyone what they are trully concealing for defense? O.K. so show one if you must, but come on, only a blow hard would show all his cards.
Looks so cool in the movies when they de-gun and end up with 20 different pieces lying on the table. For me personally, if I have on my ankle, nobody needs to know it.....especially if they have seen the one on my hip.
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Old November 26, 2007, 10:47 AM   #13
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With or without a CCW, you will want to carry in certain situations. If you are walking down the street, for instance, you dont want to risk getting caught illegally possessing a firearm. For instance, what if you get hit by a car? The police get involved, and you are busted for the security of carrying illegally.

Now if you have good cause to get into the ****, there isnt anything wrong with carrying illegally. You may get arrested, you might do time, but you took the extra precaution needed to keep from getting clipped at least. Security work, corner store register work, liquor stores, etc. All of these situations (for me) would warrant a peice with or without a permit.

Judged/carried might sound like a "cool" thing to live by, but in all honesty, there is no point in dying when you -could- have survived, regardless of the consequences. I would much rather be arrested after the fact than to get shot down in a store, the street, or the security site. Many feel the same way.

At the end of the day - look at it the same way the bad guys do. "Hes not going to know im packing, the cops arent going to know im packing. Only I know im packing until I pull it out - then I have the advantage of surprise." Surprise the bad guys with a peice, especially if you work "unarmed security".
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Old November 26, 2007, 12:51 PM   #14
Tanzer
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Now if you have good cause to get into the ****, there isnt anything wrong with carrying illegally. You may get arrested, you might do time, but you took the extra precaution needed to keep from getting clipped at least.
Yeah, and my wife can go on welfare, and I can learn how to make a shank...
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Old November 26, 2007, 08:25 PM   #15
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Right on Tanzer and dont forget bubba likes to be the daddy in the shower!! Its very stupid to carry when its against the law. You are looking for a felony and will never be able to carry or own a gun again.
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Old November 29, 2007, 03:42 PM   #16
Kruniac
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Yeah, and my wife can go on welfare, and I can learn how to make a shank...
So you would rather be dead? Lets talk REAL here - if you needed a firearm, and you didnt have one, and died... who really loses?

If you have a firearm, and survive, you do time. Presuming you dont get caught up in something or act like a maniac, you get released, you have a tarnished record, you cant own a firearm, but you are ALIVE. Which is better?

Im not talking about walking down the street with a gun in your pants either. I mean responsible gun owners who carry in dangerous (or potentially so) situations to protect themselves.

A buddy of mine, James, is an avid gun collector. He used to drive me over to WV to check out a buddy of his' gun shop, and we even once got to blow off a few rounds from a Sten, Mac-10, and a suppressed .22 pistol. He carries whenever he leaves the house, travels back and forth across state lines, and has never had to use his peice once.

If he got into a life-or-death situation, he has something to defend himself with. Not in a Clint Eastwood way, not in a "Be Aware" way, but in a "This guy is pulling a gun while looking at me sitting in my car, I had better react" way.

Think about it - would you really want to have your family lose you entirely, or lose you for illegally carrying. Forget any other options, because the reality of it is that sometimes it comes down to the simple statement - "You have a gun. You dont have a gun." Its that simple.
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Old December 1, 2007, 10:09 AM   #17
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When the law is wrong the law need to be broken repeatedly until it goes away. 2nd rules.
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Old December 1, 2007, 11:14 AM   #18
Tanzer
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Think about it - would you really want to have your family lose you entirely, or lose you for illegally carrying. Forget any other options, because the reality of it is that sometimes it comes down to the simple statement - "You have a gun. You dont have a gun." Its that simple.
You mention reality. I think the reality is that you are at least as likely to be found carrying illegaly as you are to need to use that weapon. Sure, If I knew there'd be a threat that day, I'd bring a weapon, and if I knew that I'd be in a fender-bender that day, I'd leave it home, because the cop at the scene is way too likely to find it. Back to reality. If I need to work, and it's illegal to protect myself, and I'm in a dangerous job, reality dictates that I need to seek other employment, not roll the dice every day; Snake eyes, you get shot, roll 2 sixes, you get busted, anything else, it's a "normal" day. I don't like those odds.
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When the law is wrong the law need to be broken repeatedly until it goes away. 2nd rules.
Broken? Challeged I can understand, but broken? I'm guessing you make reference to the Constitution, in which constructed our laws after a declaration that broke the King of England's laws, but I don't think there's a provision in there that claims we have the right to break any of our society's laws we don't agree with. I feel that the right to bear arms is proper, and that government infringement on that right should be challenged. I think I'm on the side of "good", but there's a lot of people in this country, and the law governs all of us. What about those on what we consider the "wrong" side? They would fall under the same general outline that you noted above. There's a lot of pedophiles out there. Could they get together and decide that 12 years old is old enough according to their way of thinking, then break the law because;
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When the law is wrong the law need to be broken repeatedly until it goes away.
Can't follow you on that one.
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