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Old February 26, 2009, 05:18 PM   #26
6x6pinz
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when it comes to small game, most shooting takes place at 35yds and in. I would estimate the average shots take place around 30yds. Dove and quail are around 35yds to 40yds. Now what I will not argue is the 12ga will reach out for farther ranges. I have not attempted to hunt pheasant with my 410's. I have only used 20's and 12 for them. Duck and geese require the 12ga in 3 or 3 1/2 just to have the payload in steel shot required to bring down the tougher birds.
I can tell you that my hunting buddies really hate when I take the 410's in the field. They can not stand being out shot by a 410. Where as I don't consider the 410 a kids gun but rather a more advanced shooters gun. If you are able to shoot well the 410 can really bring home the game. Early dove season you will find me afield with my O/U 410 as it just seems to naturally swing and get on target much easier than any other shotgun I own.
It should also be noted that I reload my own shells (12, 20 and 410 anyway). I believe that using a consistant speed round that is suited to your shotgun shooting style is the key.
You will notice that at no time have I said the 410 is superior or equal in the hands of an average shooter. It takes a certain level of skill to use a 410 effectively and that is why I feel the 12ga is so popular, it makes up for sloppy shooting skills and those who don't want to wait for the ideal shots. I know the last statement might offend some but there is a reason they feel the need for so much excessive payload to take something as light as a dove, quail, rabbit and most predators (animal types).
just my opinions andyou are of course welcome to disagree.
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Old February 26, 2009, 07:10 PM   #27
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re:6x6pinz

Are you taling about 410 gauge shotguns?
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Old February 26, 2009, 07:18 PM   #28
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The Safir and most American 410 shotguns are of course caliber not gauge. The 410 would equate to something in the 67 or 68 gauge. European countries run a bunch of different gauges that we don't even get to see here. Most of them are considerably smaller than our normal shtogun. Without doing the math a 410 gauge shotgun would have a bore about 1/4" in diameter, my guess, and not worth the time to figure it out.
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Old February 26, 2009, 10:16 PM   #29
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Another good story

KC - that story made em smile. If this thread has anything, it sure has some good stories.
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Old February 26, 2009, 10:29 PM   #30
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Had they made this when I was a kid I would have been agonizingly obsessed with them so as to have done even worse in school than I did... Since I cut my teeth on a .410 bolt action I would have had visions of the millions of doves, pigeons and pheasant that would fall from the skies straight into the pot already cleaned!
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Old February 26, 2009, 11:06 PM   #31
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re:6x6pinz

You do make a lot of sense. I agree with you that a .410 shotgun is a viable option. But the OP states that he found a 410 gauge AR type shotgun. A 410 gauge shotgun would be about as usefull a .22 rimfire birdhot rounds.
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Old February 27, 2009, 12:08 AM   #32
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I have pretty much given up on trying to get people to understand that it is not correct to refer to a 410 gauge. Far too many people either don't know or don't care to know much about the 410 shotguns. Sad but at least it makes for some good deals on old used ones. The tough part is finding an old one in good shape.
I am a sucker for a gimmick 410 shotgun. If they would make a Garand in 410 I would probably own one of them as well. I had one of the snake charmer 410's back in the 80's, today I wish I had never sold it. I used to carry it under my cammo suits when deer hunting to pick up the ocassional squirrel when things were slow.
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Old February 27, 2009, 05:22 AM   #33
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an expert's gun

Quote:
t takes a certain level of skill to use a 410 effectively
+1. I just reread these posts. That comment is certainly true. While frequently recommended to beginners because of generally lighter firearms and less recoil, the .410 caliber SGs have been accurately called expert's guns because of the inherent limitations that the small shot charge imposes.
I disagree, but only mildly, with the idea that the 12 ga. is so popular because it makes up for sloppy shooting. However much that may be true, the denser pattern of the 12 ga. at any range makes the possiblity of a humane kill more certain. This is especially true at distances where a .410 pattern may be thin enough to have bird sized holes in it. If we need two pellets to kill a grouse at X yards, then the 12 may be a better choice with twice as many pellets in the pattern.
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Old February 27, 2009, 06:09 AM   #34
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Quote:
You do make a lot of sense. I agree with you that a .410 shotgun is a viable option. But the OP states that he found a 410 gauge AR type shotgun.
You're being asinine, and I think you know it, too.
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Old February 27, 2009, 07:49 AM   #35
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Quote:
If we need two pellets to kill a grouse at X yards, then the 12 may be a better choice with twice as many pellets in the pattern.
Exactly why I use my 12's for duck, geese and larger birds. I am not trying to say the 410 should replace all shotguns just that it gets a bad rap. I personally like not having to spend a lot of time taking excessive amounts of shot out of the meat of small game just to make it edible. The 410 has limited uses and when used properly is more than effective.

I just think it is hilarious that people use the excuse the there are more rouds available for the 12 than the 410. Who really uses door buster rounds or dragons breath for anything more than fun?, which is what they say the 410 is only good for.
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Old February 27, 2009, 08:53 AM   #36
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Bird Size

But, wouldn't a larger bird be hit with more pellets at any given distance shot at with any given sized shotgun?
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Old February 27, 2009, 11:49 AM   #37
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bigger birds equal bigger bone and a need for larger shot. Larger shot would equal fewer per round. Also larger birds are generally taken at longer distances. Waterfowl here are required to be taken with non toxic shot, usually lighter than lead pellet for pellet. All things combined, more pellets are required to bring down the larger birds. You have to use the right firearm for the intended prey. I don't know anyone using 50cal rifles for rabbit, at least the ones they intend to eat I use my 410's for dove, quail, rabbit, predatory animals and rifled slugs for javelina. This is where the 410 works best for me. The rounds are easier to carry in the field and the shotguns are generally lighter making them easier to carry also. Now add in the cool factor of an AR platform (which is advertised as one of the easiest point and shoot platforms available) with challenge of the 410 and you have a great hunting experience in my book.
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Old March 9, 2009, 06:09 PM   #38
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A little time on my hands so I went to the range. I was out shooting clays this past weekend and managed 48 out of 50 clays with the Safir. This got me to thinking about the patterning of the pellets and of course you can't go to the range with a 410 without taking some slugs.
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Old March 13, 2009, 05:06 PM   #39
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Boy do I ever want me one of them there four ten gauge scatter rifles!!!

I'd even pay one thousand dollars fer it!

Quote:
A 410 gauge shotgun would be about as usefull a .22 rimfire birdhot rounds.
But what is a BIRDHOT round?
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Old March 13, 2009, 05:13 PM   #40
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cool thing is they have anounced that a 556 and 57 upper will be available for them within the next year. This will make it one awesome shotgun rifle combo.
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Old July 14, 2011, 09:07 AM   #41
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The Myth is over

Dear friends,

The .410 AR Gun being discussed here is made by us, Safir Arms.
This is a unique AR-15 gun. No one has it in USA. It is not a clone, it is not a look alike, like some others in the market. It is true AR-15 Compatible and interchangeable with other AR Platform Guns. The gun is for big game hunting at 300 Yards, Home defense and Style. It is not Ugly looking piece of Iron. It is a style, must hold in the hand to feel the difference.

Saifr Arms is located in Willingboro NJ with two additional factories operating in Turkey.

The gun does not cost $1000 as someone wrote above. The gun can be purchase from us or any of our dealers at MSRP $799.00. if you have questions we love to answer.

here are some pictures,

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Old July 14, 2011, 09:19 AM   #42
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More pictures from Safir Arms T-14

T-14 Classic

T-14-COMPACT



T-14 AR-15 compatible Upper


T-14 Classic S


T-14 Compact-S
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Old July 14, 2011, 10:35 AM   #43
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I guess the 410 Shotgun is for the sloppy shooters who can't do it all with a smoothbore .22 Garden Gun...
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Old July 14, 2011, 10:50 AM   #44
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After over three-years this thread is starting to smell like SPAM!!!
Quote:
The gun is for big game hunting at 300 Yards
Youbetcha... with all those pics, where's the one of a killer group in a 300-yd target?
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Old July 14, 2011, 11:31 AM   #45
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MKA 1919 is the same thing in 12 ga. We have 2 in stock where I work.
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Old July 14, 2011, 05:02 PM   #46
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Quote:
The gun is for big game hunting at 300 Yards
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Old July 14, 2011, 05:23 PM   #47
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Quote:
I was out shooting clays this past weekend
Pasture clays or actual trap or skeet or sporting clays?

With the handle and sights, it is about as useful as t*ts on a bull

If you want a oddball, fun, plinking gun, have at it - but for any type of serious use, there are better choices
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Old July 14, 2011, 10:14 PM   #48
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Closed, due to the aroma of fresh Spam wafting about....
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