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Old September 23, 2007, 10:43 AM   #1
Acosta
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Hotel clerk shoots robber - Video

Caught on tape

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Police said a desk clerk shot a man who was attempting to rob an east side motel on Saturday night.

Officers said that shortly before 9:30 p.m., a man walked into the Super 8 Motel, located at 2055 Brice Rd., showed a gun and demanded money.

Police said the desk clerk on duty then shot the alleged robber, Antoine Stephens.

Stephens, 20, was transported to Grant Medical Center and was in serious condition on Sunday morning, NBC 4 reported.

Police said he would be charged with aggravated robbery.
3 shots fired, all 3 hit the bad guy, gun was a glock 23, 40cal with 165g Gold dots

no charges filed agenst shooter, badguy went to prison.


This is a nice video of self-defense at work. What can you learn from it?

Last edited by Acosta; September 23, 2007 at 12:18 PM.
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Old September 23, 2007, 11:04 AM   #2
ooreach
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fits what i've heard and seen
1. It will happen when you least expect it. (Just walked in)
2. In a gun fight have a gun to fight with (clerk did)
3. Most defensive shootings 3-5 shots
4. 3 for 3 in a stressful situation is way ABOVE normal (police don't shoot that well)
5. But with 3 in em' the BG still gets to live and go to jail.
Great story to bring up. Very cool that the good guy got one. I just can't help but remember what I read once " having a gun doesn't mean you'll win in a gun fight, but atleast your odds are 50/50 compared to no gun with odds of 0/100 ".
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Old September 23, 2007, 12:00 PM   #3
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May wanna change the thread title to include Hotel Clerk Shoots Robber as I almost posted the same thing here today...
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Old September 23, 2007, 12:47 PM   #4
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And this ineptitude explains why I carry a

four inch .357 magnum.
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Old September 23, 2007, 02:15 PM   #5
chris in va
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That has to be one of the most amazing videos I've ever seen.

Permit holder was obviously well trained. I'm impressed.

Awful close to that kid though.

Did the BG try to shoot, because clerk ducked after drawing his Glock...

BTW is it possible to save this video on my computer? I have a feeling it will be yanked from YouTube somehow.
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Old September 23, 2007, 02:46 PM   #6
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That was pretty close to that kid, bet her ears were ringing after that.
I think the clerk did a great job but Its hard to tell whats going on especialy witout audio.
Im not saying his shooting Isnt justafiable, a guy pulled a gun on him and Im sure he felt his life was in danger.
When the clerk pulled his gun the BG turned and ran, clerk shot him 3 times in the back.
Which could turn into a problem in court, I guess depending on which state he's in.
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Old September 23, 2007, 03:00 PM   #7
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Please don't dwell on a permit holder! The man was armed and chose to protect his self. You do not need a permit to have a firearm in your place of business and or establishment. This is your property! Maybe some states but not most! The more times this happens , the more the bone heads will think twice before doing what they do!

Another instance that being armed had benifits, Gun laws would have disarmed this person and made him a victim.

I look forward to my copy of the American Rifleman coming each month just for the Armed Citizen section!
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Old September 23, 2007, 03:07 PM   #8
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That was fantastic. He then uses the girl to occlude the BG's view of his draw...

I feel sorry for the mother with the baby, though... she was almost in the way. She needs to duck and cover!

I was thinking maybe the clerks were trying to comply with demands, but since the woman and baby don't look like anything unusual is going on, maybe that's not it?

If you want to save it to your hard drive, you can use keepvid:

http://keepvid.com/

You will need an FLV player (FLV is a movie format that the Flash player understands). You can use the Video LAN Client (VLC) to play them after it's downloaded:

http://www.videolan.org/

To use keepvid, you will want to go to the youtube link below, then copy the URL in your URL bar. Paste that at keepvid, and you will get a download link.

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Old September 23, 2007, 03:17 PM   #9
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Score one for the good guys.
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Old September 23, 2007, 03:48 PM   #10
homefires
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Please don't dwell on a permit holder! The man was armed and chose to protect his self. You do not need a permit to have a firearm in your place of business and or establishment. This is your property! Maybe some states but not most! The more times this happens , the more the bone heads will think twice before doing what they do!

Another instance that being armed had benifits, Gun laws would have disarmed this person and made him a victim.

I look forward to my copy of the American Rifleman coming each month just for the Armed Citizen section!
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Old September 23, 2007, 08:03 PM   #11
Acosta
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!!!

Here in FL shooting someone in the back it's a big mistake. Just let him go, but keep a good eye on him. I wonder why he didn't shoot when they were face to face.
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Old September 23, 2007, 08:16 PM   #12
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Shooting someone in the back is perfectly fine if they have a gun pointed at you while they are running away

Good video. Hard to say what the scumbag was doing off camera..
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Old September 23, 2007, 08:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Police said a desk clerk shot a man who was attempting to rob an east side motel on Saturday night.
This happened Saturday night? Maybe he intentionally didn't say which Saturday night .

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...ighlight=motel

Old news.
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Old September 23, 2007, 11:37 PM   #14
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I have to agree with a couple of my cronies who thought the lady and little girl were entirely too close to be taking a shot at the guy while he was running away.

I will agree that you can't really tell if the guy was trying to shoot while he was running off or not AND the guy had a decent angle to avoid the innocents.

I learned a really important lesson about choosing a shooting angle at an action pistol match recently...in once scenario I gave a "bad guy" a Mozambique at ten yards, all three shots hit but the "no shoot" behind him took one round in the chest and head (not sure where the third one went).

Also surprising that those three .40 cals didn't turn off the BG's lights forever...I still love my 180 grain HP's though.
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Old September 24, 2007, 01:37 AM   #15
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Good thing the robber didn't grab the kid as a hostage/shield!

If he had, I wonder what the clerk would have done then?

I also like how the mom just stood there while the robber made his demands, like a good sheeple, rather than getting the hell away.
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Old September 24, 2007, 05:54 PM   #16
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If they had been my wife and child I would have been just a little bit angry with that gun-toting clerk!

The thief should have been given the damned money and allowed to leave the building. Then, if the clerk were still hot to engage, he should have gone for the bad guy where other people wouldn't have to risk becoming, 'collateral damage' themselves.

In this instance I see the motel's insurance company being worth far more than the clerk's gun. I feel so strongly about this that, if I had actually been there, I might very well have drawn; but, I certainly would NOT have revealed the weapon until after I heard the first shot. (Which would, probably, never have come!)

You've got to know, 'When' and, 'When NOT' to start shooting. In spite of its happy ending, this video is an example of, 'When NOT' to start a gunfight.
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Old September 24, 2007, 11:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
I certainly would NOT have revealed the weapon until after I heard the first shot. (Which would, probably, never have come!)
Maybe there were cues that the robber was likely to shoot. It's tough when we can't hear audio and can't even see the bad guy until he's running away.

I feel like he should at least get the benefit of the doubt. I.e., it's hard to say, "No, he should not have shot."

I'm inclined to agree with you given the presence of the woman and child, but I'm not so inclined that I'd dismiss the possibility that there is more to be known that what is seen in the video.

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Old September 24, 2007, 11:38 PM   #18
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Just downloaded and reviewed it. Pretty clear the woman with child was totally clueless, and, the guy had indicated somehow to empty the drawer, or, this video is faked.

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Old September 25, 2007, 12:33 AM   #19
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I would have shot the guy.

Lets think about this for a second. half the time, a robber will shoot a witness to prevent them from being able to ID them. A hotel 9pm at night, with a guy wearing a mask. Clearly up to no good. I'd rather get the upper hand in that kind of situation, because it's a 50/50 chance the guy will harm you in some way.

And watching the video, looked like the robber was trying to get behind the counter?

I wouldnt wait for him to make the first shot..
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Old September 25, 2007, 07:43 AM   #20
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Not to ruin a good thread, but did anyone else besides Capt. Charlie notice the date on this video? Definitely old news, but great video. Does anyone have the link to the original news story?
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Old September 25, 2007, 08:22 AM   #21
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Quoted from MyXD40 "Shooting someone in the back is perfectly fine if they have a gun pointed at you while they are running away Good video. Hard to say what the scumbag was doing off camera.."

Bleeding would be my guess .
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Old September 25, 2007, 09:00 AM   #22
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This is several months old making its rounds again. But still good.
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Old September 25, 2007, 09:11 AM   #23
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Yeah, it's an old video. First time I saw it was quite awhile ago. This said:

Quote:
Maybe there were cues that the robber was likely to shoot. It's tough when we can't hear audio and can't even see the bad guy until he's running away.
Nope, watch the video, the only cue that someone was about to start shooting comes from the man who got up out of his chair and walked behind a female coworker in order to shield his draw.

(How considerate!)

The clerk/gunman in this video placed 3 other people at severe risk: (1) The woman he used as a, ‘body shield’, (2) the woman standing right next to the robber, and (3) the baby in her arms.

That gunfight could have, ‘gone South’ in a heartbeat. People who carry deadly weapons need to be able to read other people very well. Otherwise they can turn your life or their own into an, ‘arcade shooting gallery’ at the slightest provocation.

Personally, I see no justifiable evidence for that clerk/gunman to open up with his G-23 at the moment when he did. Instead I see indications that the robber actually wasn’t ready to initiate a gun battle. All the bad guy wanted was the money; and, he proved it the instant the first shot was fired.

Videos like this annoy me because I see as much danger in them of having renewed calls to disarm the American public as I do from robbers with guns. Surely the thought has occurred to you that somewhere, high up in a government building, sitting in a posh corner office, is a high ranking bureaucratic official who regularly advises that the best way to ultimately disarm the American public is to give them all guns they want and, then, let them shoot each other to smithereens.

When the public outcry finally becomes loud enough an overwhelming majority of citizens (the, 'sheeple' who outnumber us by better than 20 to 1) will demand all guns be taken off the streets.

Videos that demonstrate ill-considered shooting incidents like this, only serve such a disadvantageous outcome. That clerk shouldn’t have started shooting until the bad guy clearly revealed an open hostile intent. If, 'Mr. Motel' is truly passionate about gunfighting, then, all he had to do is follow the robber outside – Heck, even barroom brawlers are man enough to do that!

Quote:
Lets think about this for a second. half the time, a robber will shoot a witness to prevent them from being able to ID them. A hotel 9pm at night, with a guy wearing a mask. Clearly up to no good. I'd rather get the upper hand in that kind of situation, because it's a 50/50 chance the guy will harm you in some way.
Yeah, where'd you get those statistics from? All I can say is; 'Outstanding personal judgment!' Ruthlessly gun down a mother, a middle-aged woman, and an overeager young man. (Do you think the BG would have let the baby have it, too?) Frankly, I don’t see any evidence, at all, of the bad guy trying to get over the counter – look behind it, maybe, but not getting ready to go over it.

I’ll give you this, though, IF he had attempted to jump the counter … well, then, I might have taken him in midair! I would have had the right angle and the necessary height needed to make the shot without endangering everyone else in the room; AND, I am good enough to put, at least, 3 into him before he hit the floor. (Not bragging - It's just what I do!)

Don’t like this video. The only lessons to be learned from it are, ‘what NOT to do’. (And, you know, lots of times it takes MORE courage NOT to immediately act than it does to just start shooting the way this clerk did. Clearly he had no regard for the safety or wellbeing of anyone else in the room except himself.)
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Old September 25, 2007, 10:13 AM   #24
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To me it looks like the clerk drew his weapon and the BG fired at him as you see the clerk duck down and then return fire. If you replay it over and over slowly you will see what I'm refering to. It was a good shoot. Can't understand why so many people on here blame the clerk as being in the wrong and takeing the Bg's side.:barf: If someone comes into your place of business with a gun then you have the right to defend yourself whether he's running away or not. Because by bringing a gun into rob you he's already commited to useing violence to get what he wants.
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Old September 25, 2007, 10:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Personally, I see no justifiable evidence for that clerk/gunman to open up with his G-23 at the moment when he did. Instead I see indications that the robber actually wasn’t ready to initiate a gun battle.
That's kind of what I said, actually -- I don't "see" anything either. Quite importantly, none of us can "hear" anything. Also, if demands are made at some point, we can't see it because the robber is off the screen.

Who knows what he said. If he said, "I'm going to kill you all and take the money," shooting is quite justified.

I'm not arguing that he's entirely justified... I'm arguing that there could well be extenuating elements of the situation that are not clear in the video.

Preponderance of the evidence points to it being hasty on the part of the clerk. But it's not 100% certain.

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