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Old September 19, 2007, 07:21 PM   #1
Jason607
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AR-10 vs. AR-15 Pros and Cons

I have been wanting a AR rifle for a long time now. I am trying to decide which to get between the AR-10 and the AR-15. Basically, I am looking for a SHTF gun. What are the pro's and cons between the AR-10 and AR-15?

I have a mini-14 and I have been trying to "AR" it with the AR Style stocks, flashhiders, ect and just not at all satisfied. So a couple weeks ago I though "Who am I kidding, get the real thing" is the only way I am going to feel satisfied. I miss the feel of the M16, but I like the shorter barreled and collapsable stock. At first, I thought the AR looked incomplete without the carry handle, but the look of the flat top grows and makes the carry handle look "old".

Thanks.
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Old September 19, 2007, 07:38 PM   #2
SR420
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After a few different AR15 type rifles I decided to give the AR-10A4 a try... I like the .308 / 7.62mm x 51 NATO.
Here it is with a 16" carbine upper, flip up sights, a Millet DMS-1 in a LaRue mount and a new 25 round CMI mag.

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Old September 19, 2007, 08:24 PM   #3
Jason607
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Cool rifle, but what do you like and dislike about the AR-10 compared to the AR-15 since you have both.
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Old September 19, 2007, 08:57 PM   #4
gunzblazin
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They both have advantages.

I have both rifles, or at least clones of each rifle. I have a bushmaster xm-15 and a DPMS SASS .308. The .308 is way more powerful of a rifle of course. I mean just compare the size of the .223 cartridge to the .308. Then there is the ammo capacity tradeoff. So you have to ask yourself what you want, more ammo.....or more power. My .223 can hold 30 (or more if you buy a c-mag) but my .308 is only 19 rounds. Both rifles are going to give you what you want on the accuracy side if you are comparing the carbine versions of each rifle. Much more accurate than a mini. And then there is the cost of ammunition. Depends what you want. Both of my rifles have never jammed once. The .223 has about 1500 rounds through it and the .308 has about 100. Right now the rifles that I'm drooling over are all gas piston type rifles. I'm just sick of cleaning bolts and bolt carriers. You may want to look at some of them before you lay down your hard-earned money for a new SHTF rifle. They should be much easier to maintain.
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Old September 19, 2007, 09:16 PM   #5
Jason607
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I want an AK style as well, it's just the AR has had me longer and stronger. I will probally get both in the long run. I have considered one down the middle in 6.8 or 6.5 but the ammo is damn expensive. I think what I want is a compact AR-15 with a reddot/acog and a larger AR-10 with the 20" barrel and a scope.
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Old September 19, 2007, 09:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Cool rifle, but what do you like and dislike about the AR-10 compared to the AR-15 since you have both.
I traded my AR-15 type for the AR-10 type because I wanted just one caliber for all of my rifles.
gunzblazin covered the pros and cons of both and brought up a good point about gas piston type rifles.
I have the AR-10, but I shoot and rely on my M14s.
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Old September 19, 2007, 09:33 PM   #7
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?

Are those the only differences? Caliber? Aside from the obvious changes that go with caliber...
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Old September 19, 2007, 10:07 PM   #8
FirstFreedom
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Ammo expense: edge goes to AR15

Mag availability & cost: slam dunk going to AR15. AR10 mags are expensive, hard to find, and don't work without some dremeling on the BHO nub. AR15 mags are cheap and plentiful. With other "AR10" style rifles, like the DPMS .308, the mags may very well work better and be cheaper - I don't know.

The cartridge itself: the AR10 shoots a seriously powerful bullet, vs. the AR15 being a so-called "poodle-shooter" - but it's plenty effective on thin skinned game up to deer size, including bad men - it's just not the penetrator or longrange round that the AR10 shoots.

They're about the same size - both are very ergo. But the AR10 is less ergo when it's owned in a config that is sensible to its chambering (i.e. with a 20" bbl) - a 16" bbl doesn't make much sense on an AR10, due to recoil & blast. But in an ergo package (16" bbl), an AR15 is a nice balance in tight places.
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Old September 19, 2007, 11:37 PM   #9
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Have you considered...

Hi Jason. Have you considered the FAL rifle? This board leans heavily towards the M14 and AK platform but not alot of attention is given this fine rifle around here (at least I think since it is my favorite ) Probably because most here are Americans (M14).

Here you have a proven design (in over 90 countries)! Mags are a dime a dozen and cheap, no grinding required. Gas piston operation vs. direct impingement. And you can build on the finest FAL receivers made (DSA).

The rifle pictured uses a DSA type 1 receiver and a Belgian made 458mm (18") chrome lined "para" barrel. The lower is DSA 7075 aluminum. This complete setup weighs more than 1lb. less than a friends AR10. It it fast, light (for a battle rifle) and accurate.



I wouldn't have brought this one up but you mentioned that you had been considering other platforms.

Best of luck in your quest.
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Old September 19, 2007, 11:49 PM   #10
Jason607
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Yeah, that looks like a cool weapon. I might have to look into one of those. I think what I want is a good compact AR-15, and then get something else in the larger caliber.

Thanks for all the info, I feel pretty sure what I want.

The mini-14 is fun, but if I knew what I know now, I would have spent the extra money and gotten a AR in the first place.
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Old September 20, 2007, 12:28 AM   #11
ostrobothnian
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Sounds familiar

I made the same decision you are making last year about this time. The AR has become one of my favorite rifles to shoot since then. It's almost TOO easy and definitely a fun rifle to shoot. The thing just does what it is supposed to do just like "plug and play". You won't be disappointed in the AR (as long as the quality is there).

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Old September 20, 2007, 05:45 AM   #12
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My DPMS LR 308B has been totally reliable and very accurate. The only problem I have with it is that I don't have enough time to shoot it as much as I want to. (There must be a better way of financing my bad habits than working all the time.)

Roger
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Old September 20, 2007, 12:36 PM   #13
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The AR15's tend to be more refined, there is just more better quality parts available and the parts among manufacturers as a whole are more uniform. AR10 designs tend to have slight variations from manufacturer to manufacturer meaning that one companies AR10 parts won't always be interchangeable with anothers.

Plenty of inexpensive mags available for AR15's.

In .308, I think I would look at an FAL.
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Old September 20, 2007, 09:26 PM   #14
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Yeah, I'm kinda in the same boat. I'm leaning towards the AR-10 as I just like the .308 and since I own a .308 bolt gun I think that is what I'm going to do so I can just stock pile .308 for both or reload for both. I am leaning towards the Armalite which now produces 25rd mages for the .308.

Now my brothers logic is this, when the zombies attack he will be able to resupply his ammo for his AR-15 by going to the local PD since that is what they carry are picking it up off of their dead bodies in the streets. My thinking is if it is that bad I'm bugging out deep into the swamps as zombies don't like the mosquitos and gators from what I have been told, plus they don't swim that well.
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Old September 21, 2007, 05:15 AM   #15
Jason607
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Yeah, I'll start with an AR-15, maby get it in 6.8SPC, best of both worlds, but more expensive than both. I have even considered the AR in 7.62X39. I have thought of getting a AK but for some reason, I don't like the feel of the AK. Some say I need to shoot one first. They are probally right. I have a Glock 21 and don't like the way the frame feels. I got a Glock 20 anyways which has the same frame and after shooting it, it is my favorite.


Thanks for all the replies.
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Old September 24, 2007, 11:08 PM   #16
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Poodles versus Grizzlies ... 10, 14, 15

I've had about three dozen of the original AR 10 Dutch made rifles, Sudanese and Portuguese models. I've also built about four dozen AR-15 rifles, of various configurations from 7" shorties to fluted heavy barreled target models. I've lost count of the M-14 rifles I've had, but probably around six doxen or so.

For an all around = SHTF rifle, my very first choice would be an 18.5" barreled original AR 10 ... IF [ and only if ] I had the necessary spare parts and extra mags to keep it running [ the original aluminium AR 10 waffle mags were a bit fragile. Unfortunately, without a time machine, this just ain't a viable choice. The original TENS are collectors now, and parts are not available.

While the original AR 10 was one of the most reliable, durable and effective practical firearms ever built, the more modern TEN clones are designed to use as many AR 15 parts as they can. This is great for parts interchangeability, but IMHO, most of these designs simply MUST compromise on some of the original design's reliability and durability.

Stoner was a genius, and the original AR 10 design in 7.62 NATO was near perfect ... scaling it down to 5.56 NATO was a less than perfect compromise, which took decades of fine tuning to fix. Scaling the new generation of AR 10 rifles back up again to use AR 15 parts, must lead to some engineering compromises.

Of course, as with all opinions expressed on the internet, your personal mileage may vary.
{:{)

The AR 15 is like an epidemic on the planet ... you can find parts for it ANYWHERE. It is also ergonomically one of the best designs out there, and after decades in use, is pretty well a mature system. So my second choice would be an AR 15, 16" barrel, with a very few mods. I once had a couple of 16" SS OGW barrels in .300 Whisper, which at the time I thought would be the ultimate solution to the AR 15 / AR 10 dilemna. I even had 1000 rds of formed .300 W brass. But eventually, I decided a non-standard caliber, like .300 Whisper, was just not viable for a SHTF tool.

Unfortunately, this means my AR 15 is now a .223 "poodle shooter", which of course compromises both the power and the range. But with 62 Gr "Zombi Loads", it is possibly the best CQB system out there [ but I wish some army would adapt .300 Whisper, make a billion rounds of the ammo, and turn the old poodle humper into a really viable SHTF gun ]

Once again, as with all opinions on the internet, your personal mileage may vary.

These days I shoot mostly M-14 type rifles. Parts are available, the design is rugged, accurate, and easily maintained. Unfortunately, my M-14s are not as fast as an AR 15 for CQB. So I guess I just can't let those Zombie sneak up to close to me. But if they do, then I suspect one round of 7.62 Nato is all the Zombi repellent I'd ever need, instead of using the infamous AR 15 Double Tap, to ensure reliable takedowns.

Just so long as I am not humping the ammo in a ruck sack, and trying to outrun the Zombie hordes, then the M-14 would be my third choice.

But where I live, I am much more likely to be eaten by a bear, than I am to be savaged by poodles or Zombis. So 7.62 NATO make the most sense for me.

Bottom line, right now I have an AR 15 AND several M-14s, and am just fine with that.

But if someone offered me an AR-10, I'd really have to think it over.
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