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Old August 30, 2007, 09:09 PM   #101
MyXD40
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:09 PM   #102
easyG
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Theyve been practicing in this school for years and years. Sure its not their own home, but theyre not walking into a completely unfamiliar building either.
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Im no schlump but I'm far from being a SWAT officer, however, while playing the "bad guy" I was able to CONSISTENTLY take out the officers (SWAT guys!) who strayed from the group and tried to operate alone without cover.
Then you're either exceptionally good, or they really suck.

I'm guessing that they really suck, because I've never heard of SWAT members who "stray from the group" and try to operate alone.
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:11 PM   #103
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I once cought a butterly..that was pretty cool
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:15 PM   #104
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I sometimes wonder if we were all so young and foolish once. Then I wonder if we were just lucky that we didn't run into any situation where are young and foolish attitudes would get us killed.

It is scary to me that a couple of "future cops" are trying to tell some guys who have BTDT how silly they are for being overly cautious.

What's that saying, to paraphrase, there are old cops and there are bold cops but there aren't any old bold cops. And no, I am not a cop, I am a hillybilly redneck philosopher but I have been in enough hair raising situations to know fear. I have taught self defense martial arts classes. I am a firm believer in the run and hide school of self defense. Am I a coward? Apparantly in the minds of some young men.

I think it is telling that someone thought that the monetary value of their "stuff" mattered and seemed insulted when they thought someone was implying that their stuff wasn't worth that much.

I have expensive stuff too. I am 46 years old and retired and I have been an antique collector for 20 years, you do the math. I don't own anything worth risking my life for, including the mutual funds that allow me to be retired. I would go back to work tomorrow before I would risk my life to protect my stuff.
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:17 PM   #105
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^I think this last post was directed to me. But hey, I have a cordless drill..what do YOU have??
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:21 PM   #106
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we can all aruge. We can fight. I can tell you what is right, you can tell me what is wrong. If we all lived our life the same way as everyone else, we'd be in living in a perfect world. Because we all think differently, and believe differently in many different areas, thats what keeps it real

Clearly my views are to capture the bad guy. Next in line, is to protect what I have. Next in line to that, is to protect what little respect I have. If someone wants ot break into my house and disrespect me, and steal items I worked hard for, and earned, you bet I'll jump back to the first in line. Simple enough.
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:22 PM   #107
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Youre going to make an excellent officer, I'm sure.
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:22 PM   #108
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I couldn't help but notice, funny as it is, that the thread is "controlling a suspect" ...and we are tlaking about self defense within your home...
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:23 PM   #109
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It is scary to me that a couple of "future cops" are trying to tell some guys who have BTDT how silly they are for being overly cautious.
Quote:
I am a firm believer in the run and hide school of self defense. Am I a coward? Apparantly in the minds of some young men.


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^I think this last post was directed to me.
I agree.
It couldn't have been directed at me....
I'm 40 and a Gulf War vet.
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:26 PM   #110
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Well thank you. I've been told by many officers that I have the right attitude! Throw the badguys in jail! Protect the lives of others!

But don't judge me, until you know me please.

Does anyone even know what I look like??
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:28 PM   #111
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While we are offtopic anyway, let me ask, becasue I don't believe in god (I find it silly), does this make me a bad person?

or because I'm black? Does this make me a bad person?
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:43 PM   #112
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"ask a Marine this:

You're in bed reading a book (yes, Marines can read),"

We can, we just choose not to.
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:46 PM   #113
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^haha nice answer
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:57 PM   #114
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For my wife and I in our state,
Yes to castle doctrine
Yes to shielded from civil suits if the shooting is deemed justified in or out of the home.
No to attempting to handcuff, especially alone
If they want to walk out we'll let them. We know what they look like and can give a description to the police when they show up.
If we're justified to shoot we'll shoot. e.g. We feel our life is in danger.

Call 911, situational dependent on either investigating or simply barricading and waiting for the cavalry. We've got no delusions of being natural born cops, or Mr and Mrs Smith. We prefer to fade into the gray area of obscurity.

I've got more formal training than a many folks, less than many others and I'm married to a former LEO who now works contract security. She has a good amount of training in firearms, defensive tactics, etc. as well and we've talked it over and ran scenarios. We will do what is situationally appropriate at the time to the best of our ability.
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Old August 30, 2007, 10:01 PM   #115
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We will do what is situationally appropriate at the time to the best of our ability.
Hands down, simply the smartest thing anyone has said yet. Good job
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Old August 30, 2007, 10:01 PM   #116
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I have some nice expensive toys in my house that I can't live without.

No you don't, and that just generally a dangerous position to take.



I like how someone over the internet tries to tell me what I have isn't expensive lol
I'm not saying you don't have some expensive stuff, I'm saying you CAN live without it. I tell people the same thing in person. It is not worth dying or killing someone else to protect your property. The fact that you have insurance makes it rediculous, so much so that I wasn't sure you meant it.

You are in line to go on the job, and you 1) don't know the law on using deadly physical force to protect property, 2) probably don't know the case law in your area on said use of force, and 3) seem not to know that your future department almost certainly has a policy on the use of deadly physical force, and very well may hang you out to dry if you are involved in a shooting that contradicts that policy (because your conduct is outside of the scope of your employment). Your insured plasma isn't going to look so valuable if you are out of work, paying $100,000+expenses to a defense laywer to keep you out of jail, and facing a multi-million dollar civil suit without your municipality backing you up or indemnifying you.

As to whether a burglar is a threat to your life, you need to understand that no every bad guy is a threat to anyone's life, including a burglar, and a police officer is likely to encounter many criminals with knives or guns who do NOT need to be shot.

If you get where you want to go, you're going to learn all of this, one way or another.
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Old August 30, 2007, 10:15 PM   #117
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I'm also becoming an LEO.
No you're not...not with that attitude.

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I'm guessing that they really suck, because I've never heard of SWAT members who "stray from the group" and try to operate alone.
Ever heard of an ambush?

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I don't believe you.
And, I don't give a rip.

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Do you truely believe that you cannot clear your own home better than the average cop in your hometown?
OK, fella. Here's a challenge for you.

You pick the building. Any building. I don't care how big or how small.

You can have as long as you want to study it. Read the floorplans. Make diagrams.

When you're ready, you let me go in. I will have a paintball gun--or better yet, simunitions. You give me ten minutes.

Now you come in after me.

I will bet you any amount of money that I will light you up before you even see me. You will be wearing more paintball dots than bozo the clown.

XD40, think long and hard before you go into a police job. It's not all dashing and derring-do. The public doesn't fall all over themselves thanking you, either.

And there is no room for badasses, either.
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Old August 30, 2007, 10:16 PM   #118
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This thread will be closed for incivility and the fact that it's going nowhere (again) in 5,4,3..... Take it away Cap'n Charlie....
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Old August 30, 2007, 10:23 PM   #119
DonR101395
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I'm not saying you don't have some expensive stuff, I'm saying you CAN live without it.
Only if they take my iron lung

Seriously though, you and Powder gave some good advice.


XD,
I hope you make where you want to go, but you really need to practice being the gray man if you want to last and be successful. It's much better to be the quiet professional with a head full of knowledge and a life full of experience than "that guy" who nobody wants to work with because they view them as a liability.


Let's try to keep it civil guys. Remember it's only the internet.
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Old August 30, 2007, 10:34 PM   #120
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As a closing thought, I already have my Recommendation Letters, two police explorer positions under my belt, countless ride-alongs and many LEO (low and high on the ladder) as close friends. I know what I'm getting into, and what the job requires.

And yes, it's only the interenet. So none of you can judge me (good or bad) based on my replies on topics.
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Old August 30, 2007, 10:47 PM   #121
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Thats true. Its only the internet. Thats why I'll stick to my guns and say that, while you are probably more than qualified to be hired as an LEO, your viewpoints will probably (read: hopefully) change as you mature as an officer. Best of luck to you, I mean that. I'm sure you will gain alot from the profession, and I'm sure you've got plenty to contribute.
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Old August 30, 2007, 10:51 PM   #122
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We are not judging you on anything other than your comments on this thread. You may be a great guy in person, but on this one topic in this one thread you are way way off base. Nobody is judging you, just your attitude in this one situation. In fact, it looks to me like a lot of guys with a lot of experience are trying to help you understand where your thinking is going wrong. In my world the fact that these guys would stop and spend the time to try and share with you some of the benifits of their experience is a sign of respect not judgment.

One other thing, how does a single person trot away with a plasma TV anyway? I don't have a plasma TV. The average burglar probably wouldn't recognise what was and wasn't valuable in my house. I have fountain pens worth more than most Plasma TVs but the average person wouldn't notice. I have silverware, real silverware from the late 1800s, worth more than most cars, but the average 18-19 homebreaker probably wouldn't know that from stainless. But more importantly I wouldn't hesitate to let that stuff walk right out of my house if it means avoiding a violent situation.

A final note. I have never been in a violent altercation instigated by anyone over 25. Coincidence?
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Old August 30, 2007, 10:59 PM   #123
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OK, fella. Here's a challenge for you.
You pick the building. Any building. I don't care how big or how small.
You can have as long as you want to study it. Read the floorplans. Make diagrams.
When you're ready, you let me go in. I will have a paintball gun--or better yet, simunitions. You give me ten minutes.
Now you come in after me.
I will bet you any amount of money that I will light you up before you even see me. You will be wearing more paintball dots than bozo the clown.
That's not what this thread is about....
Of course anyone would have a huge disadvantage ENTERING a building occupied by a hostile enemy.
That only reenforces my point:
In my own home I have the advantage over anyone breaking in.
But a cop called out to my home, to clear it for me, is being placed at even greater risk than if I had did the job myself.

Here's a challenge for you...

We use paintball guns.
You come to my house and simulate and break in.
I predict that you'll end up looking like a bag of Skiddles!
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Old August 30, 2007, 11:00 PM   #124
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Thanks guys. I don't try to be an ass but sometimes I just get a lil into these internet fourms!

And I guess just the nature of how I'm trying to help people all the time, and get rid of these badguys in the world, often will carry over into my personal life, and how I would handel a situation. For example, the other day at the store, a woman (lil older, 50s) had a lil hand dog. Completly harmless, and some punk kid walked up and started to harrass her about her dog, and dogs arn't allowed in the store..really stickin it to her. Of course I walk up and instantly stand up for this helpless woman, calm, but firm, not mean what-so-ever. and a manager finaly comes over, and escorts this trouble maker out of the store. He must have really been off his wagon! this really had nothing to do with anything..but thought I'd share my story to show what kind of guy I am..well at least try to explain.

and honsetly..lol I have no idea who could haul out a 60'' plasama..without droping it at least and breaking it!

But I understand what you're saying
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Old August 30, 2007, 11:01 PM   #125
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easyG I'm TOTALY down if you want to do that! of course, in your home! I dunno how wifey would like it if we had a bunch of paintballs around our house..
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