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Old August 30, 2007, 04:43 PM   #76
easyG
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Just because someone was a cop, Ranger, SF, etc. doesn't mean they know what they are talking about when it comes to personal protection in the home or pistolcraft.
Let me get this right....
If you were once a cop, that does not mean that you know how to clear your own home, so you call a COP to do it for you????

You can't be serious.
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Old August 30, 2007, 04:43 PM   #77
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I think I'll clear my house. I have some nice expensive toys in my house that I can't live without. If someone tries to jack them, I dont want to wait for insurance to pay me back and go a few weeks without my plasma tv, or my laptops. Nope not me!
Human life is worth more than inanimate objects. The only item I would shoot to keep from being taken is an operational firearm. Think about it.

Quote:
Cops think that every non-cop is a total idiot when it comes to guns, self defense, and home defense.
Most of the cops I've met don't think that the average citizen should even own a gun.
So I don't place my faith in the advice of such "experts".
No, we don't.

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Face it, the local PD aint gonna send out the SWAT team to investigate a noise in your home....it'll most likely be some young kid in his twenties...he might have a partner and he might not.
You'd be surprised.

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IMO, it's far better to die a man than live as a coward.
A man dies only one death, a coward dies a thousand deaths.
Your opinions are yours, and you are entitled to them. But, just curious...how many houses have YOU cleared? I lost count about my second year in police work.

By the way, just as a reference point, my son and I were talking about clearing houses one day. Now, he is even more qualified to talk about clearing houses than I am--he spent some quality time in Fallujah as a Marine doing the same, and has, undortunately, killed men in close combat while doing so. By close combat, I mean as in AK's vs. M16A2 from across a room, multiple targets.

I asked about clearing a house by himself. HE won't do it. Nor will any Marine that I have met.

I really don't think that you want to call these guys cowards. They might get upset.

XD40, you said you are about to go into police work. Kudos to you.

Do me a favor.

When you get into the academy, pose your point of view about house clearing to your TAC officer. Write us back and let us know about the response, will you?

Quote:
WOW Lurper!
Now that's impressive....only two other people are equal or higher in skill than yourself!!!
Please, tell me who they are, I'm just dying to know
Just a word of advice.....I'd tend to believe this guy.
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Old August 30, 2007, 04:45 PM   #78
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and maybe someone else who's quietly lurking in the background can benefit.
Just hope it's not Sarah Brady
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Old August 30, 2007, 05:00 PM   #79
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Longstreet tried and tried to convince Lee that a defensive posture was best. Lee ignored him and made a grand gesture full of macho posturing by Pickett, and thus the beginning of the end for the confederacy. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it as they say.

I can't imagine clearing my house, I CAN imagine taking my son and climbing out a window and going somewhere where I could communicate to the appropriate LE agency. In the unlikely event I am cornered and can't retreat then I would hunker down and pray to God nobody came through that door.

There are a few things on this planet I would die for, there are even fewer things I would kill for. I value my sleep to much and in the event I shot an unarmed kid climbing through a window I know sleep would be elusive for a very long time.

The call it self defense for a reason, it's all about defense. One of the things I learned over the years is that people with a weapon tend to feel invinciple, sometimes much to their ultimate regret. A gun or knife or tireiron does not make you invinciple, keep that in mind.
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Old August 30, 2007, 07:56 PM   #80
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I forget who asked, but I'm unclear on deadly force over your property. But the way I see it, I walk downstairs to a BG tryin to jack my plasma..now I'm put into a self defense situation..hmm

Everyone seems to have a good imput. But honestly, I just cant help but laugh at some of your replies. Makes me wonder when someone really DOES break into your house..should be an interesting subject next morning.

and I like how someone said
Quote:
Quote:
I have some nice expensive toys in my house that I can't live without.


No you don't, and that just generally a dangerous position to take.
I like how someone over the internet tries to tell me what I have isn't expensive lol


And dispite whatever anyone says, I will always clear my house. I guess I'm just not scared to protect whats mine.


AND BESIDES, IF YOU'RE TOO SCARED TO PROTECT WHAT'S YOURS, OR TO STAND UP FOR OTHERS, THEN I GUESS THE GUY WHO BROKE INTO YOUR HOUSE (CLEARLY A THREAT TO ANYONE, ANYTIME, IN ANY WAY) HAS THE CHANCE TO GO BACK OUT ONTO THE STREETS. NOW HE'S GOING TO BREAK INTO SOMEONE ELSES HOUSE, OR PERHAPS ROB A STORE, RAPE A WOMAN, KILL A PERSON. HE BELONGS IN JAIL. AND IF YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO HELP PUT HIM IN JAIL, THEN DON'T YOU THINK YOU SHOULD? THAT WAY SOMEONE ELSE WONT HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHAT YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH, POSSIBLY WORSE?? (SORRY FOR THE CAPS, SOMEONE STOLE MY CAPS LOCK BUTTON. I LEFT MY LAPTOP DOWNSTAIRS AND HEARD A NOISE..AND YEAH..BY THE TIME COPS GOT HERE, TOO LATE! (LOL))
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:08 PM   #81
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AND BESIDES, IF YOU'RE TOO SCARED TO PROTECT WHAT'S YOURS, OR TO STAND UP FOR OTHERS, THEN I GUESS THE GUY WHO BROKE INTO YOUR HOUSE (CLEARLY A THREAT TO ANYONE, ANYTIME, IN ANY WAY) HAS THE CHANCE TO GO BACK OUT ONTO THE STREETS. NOW HE'S GOING TO BREAK INTO SOMEONE ELSES HOUSE, OR PERHAPS ROB A STORE, RAPE A WOMAN, KILL A PERSON. HE BELONGS IN JAIL. AND IF YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO HELP PUT HIM IN JAIL, THEN DON'T YOU THINK YOU SHOULD? THAT WAY SOMEONE ELSE WONT HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHAT YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH, POSSIBLY WORSE?? (SORRY FOR THE CAPS, SOMEONE STOLE MY CAPS LOCK BUTTON. I LEFT MY LAPTOP DOWNSTAIRS AND HEARD A NOISE..AND YEAH..BY THE TIME COPS GOT HERE, TOO LATE! (LOL))

Quote:
And dispite whatever anyone says, I will always clear my house. I guess I'm just not scared to protect whats mine.
And you say you're in line to be a cop?
I think you may have just blown your chances. Would your superior/partner if applicable want to deal with you in the aftermath of a shooting situation? Answering to IA's after you discharged your weapon?
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:09 PM   #82
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AND BESIDES, IF YOU'RE TOO SCARED TO PROTECT WHAT'S YOURS, OR TO STAND UP FOR OTHERS, THEN I GUESS THE GUY WHO BROKE INTO YOUR HOUSE (CLEARLY A THREAT TO ANYONE, ANYTIME, IN ANY WAY) HAS THE CHANCE TO GO BACK OUT ONTO THE STREETS. NOW HE'S GOING TO BREAK INTO SOMEONE ELSES HOUSE, OR PERHAPS ROB A STORE, RAPE A WOMAN, KILL A PERSON. HE BELONGS IN JAIL. AND IF YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO HELP PUT HIM IN JAIL, THEN DON'T YOU THINK YOU SHOULD? THAT WAY SOMEONE ELSE WONT HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHAT YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH, POSSIBLY WORSE?? (SORRY FOR THE CAPS, SOMEONE STOLE MY CAPS LOCK BUTTON. I LEFT MY LAPTOP DOWNSTAIRS AND HEARD A NOISE..AND YEAH..BY THE TIME COPS GOT HERE, TOO LATE! (LOL))
Actually, I think he belongs dead. not in jail, where he will filter back into society a couple years later to cause more harm. At the same time, I hope I'm not the one who has to deliver when he breaks into my house....
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:13 PM   #83
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Quote:
I have some nice expensive toys in my house that I can't live without.

No you don't, and that just generally a dangerous position to take.
And in reply...
Quote:
I like how someone over the internet tries to tell me what I have isn't expensive lol
Hey officer, He was telling you that you don't own anything worth your life.
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:13 PM   #84
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Tanzer maybe you should consider knowing all the facts before making a statment that harsh

I can clear my house. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah it's a risk, that I'm willing to take, unlike most of you. I'm also becoming an LEO. Which I'll have to take even greater risks throughout my career. But perhaps if you were to notice all the facts before making such a harsh judgment, you would know that just because I am willing to clear my home, doesn't mean I want to shoot/kill anyone. Like I've stated before I hope I never have to shoot someone, let alone kill them. Not my style. But if I have to in order to protect my own life, then it will happen. Thanks anyway
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:18 PM   #85
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What is my life worth? Answer that question, and we'll compare it to some of the items I own. But I doubt you have any idea what my life is worth, because I sure do. And I think I've made it very clear.

Also, if a BG breaks into my home, jacks whatever I may have within reach, doesn't get cought, bounces before police show up..wouldn't that build up his confidence? Perhaps build it up enough to come back to my house, and steal something else he seen/wanted..or enough confidence to maybe go upstairs, see my gorgeous wifey laying in bed alone, and decides to rape her? I just want to make them know, My house isn't a play house

the fact someone who would rape my wifey, really gets under my skin! I'm getting just thinking about the perverts who do it!
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:25 PM   #86
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Opps, my mistake....

So, only 2% of the entire earth's population is equal or high in skill than Lurper?

Right...
Why is it so hard to believe that a man who was a professional competitive shooter for many years has more pistol skill then 98% of the population?
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:31 PM   #87
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You know, I love to argue. but I came to this fourm to make friends, share experinces..

can't we all agree, to disagre? I mean.. honestly, no matter WHAT anyone says, all of us, will handle the situation the best we feel it should be handled. Because I'm the guy who feels its better to clear your home, and help put bad guys in jail, others feel its not safe. Well what BG in your house IS safe? lol honestly. but I dont care about any "advice" someone may have on how to do something. I'm going to do what I feel comfortable as. As so will the rest of you.

It's like I'm a christian, and you're trying to convert me to become a jew because thats what you feel is RIGHT, and thats how things should be done, but I just laugh at you and tell you MY way is right..it just doesn't work.

(And reason I argue on this forum is simply because it's fun for me. I think others on here feel the same way..I just hope you all don't take this argument in this thread to heart)
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:36 PM   #88
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If you feel like your "stuff" is so valuable that its worth risking your life over, thats fine. All I know is that for me, if I'm gonna die at the hands of some shooter in my home, its going to be because he was threatening my family, trying to rape my wife, or take my children.

If I have the opportunity to keep my family safe without having to chance an encounter with someone in my house, then you bet I'll be doing just that. As much as it would **** me off that some loser is taking my valuables from my own living room, its not worth the chance that I could be killed in an encounter that was ultimately avoidable. I'll be protecting the family upstairs, gun in hand, ready to defend if need be. You probably dont have any children, otherwise you would probably see things the same way.

Theres a time and place for clearing your house searching for baddies, and as confident as I am that I could neutralize most any threat in my home, its just not a game I'm willing to play if I even THINK it would put my life or the lives of my loved ones in jeopardy.
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:38 PM   #89
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the fact someone who would rape my wifey, really gets under my skin! I'm getting just thinking about the perverts who do it!
Now you're on track...Stay on track.
Protect your wife and leave your cape in the closet. Call 911. I'll bet she'd want you there. You can't protect her if the BG gets behind you or has a partner that does. For cryin' out loud, You've got experienced folks like Powderman (do you respect his credentials?) telling you it's a bad idea, and you're just blowing it off?? BTW - try not to p*ss him off...
Sorry P'man but it's true.
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:39 PM   #90
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Hey each to their own! I respect the fact consider your family, and do what you think is best for them. I really do. (I mean that in a nice way, theres really no RIGHT way to do things in these kind of situations..just laws)
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:46 PM   #91
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I'm not blowing him off. For the most part, he's pretty much right (in my books) but there's always going to be something, that somone has to disagree with.

And my wifey is well protected. Access to a few handguns, and a nice 12GA and soon an new AR-16! (hehe holloween present!). I'm confident she will protect herself just fine. Or else, yes I'd stay by her side. But she's my partner, we work together..

Another factor to take into consideration is the layout of ones home. Now the way my home is setup, is quite odd. I live in a compnay paid house, two story, 2 bed (I dont arguee, it's all free! until I quit, then I move) but the upstairs has the two bedrooms, my wifes, and daughers orom. Also the living room is upstairs (room right at the stop of the stairs, which then from that room is two doors, one into each bedroom). Go down the stairs, and you get to the kitchen, which is open connected to the living room (2nd living room). So for me to clear my house, isn't that hard of a task. I have a mirror on the doorless doorway from the bottom of my stairs, looking into the half of the kitchen, and livingroom to the frontdoor/window. Now your house setup, is different. But for mine, super easy to clear, adn spot someone. Wifey and I are looking into some new homes, now that both our salary is about to jump big time, so I'll come back in a few months, and tell you all if I would clear that home or not, because I'm sure the layout will be much much different, bigger, and more rooms/doors/walls
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:48 PM   #92
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Theres no RIGHT or WRONG way to do it, just ways that WILL or WILL NOT get you killed. I was just talking in another post about an experience I had today. I had the priviledge of being invited to do some Simunitions drills with the local SWAT team. We were working inside a high school, clearing rooms and practicing takedowns, etc. I got to play the "bad guy" much of the time.

All was dark most of the time, much like your home would likely be. SWAT guys operated with and without flashlights depending on the situation. These guys placed so much emphasis on team work, it was awesome to see. They would have laughed your ass right out of that school if you had tried to do a solo room clear without cover.

Im no schlump but I'm far from being a SWAT officer, however, while playing the "bad guy" I was able to CONSISTENTLY take out the officers (SWAT guys!) who strayed from the group and tried to operate alone without cover. If I can do it, I dont doubt some criminal in your house could too.

Trying to clear your house solo, without cover......the odds just arent good enough to make it worth trying.
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:49 PM   #93
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I asked about clearing a house by himself. HE won't do it. Nor will any Marine that I have met.
I don't believe you.

Don't ask about clearing "A HOUSE", ask a Marine this:

You're in bed reading a book (yes, Marines can read), in YOUR OWN HOME, or your parent's home.
You hear an unusual noise downstairs.
Do you call 911 and barricade yourself in your bedroom or do you investigate the source of the noise yourself?

I'll bet you don't find a single Marine who says that he would call 911 first.
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:54 PM   #94
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Yeah I don't believe you either (the comment someone made, and easyG replied to), a Marine will use his skills and handle a situation himself, like he was tought. Now of course, yeah theres going to be a few out there who figure eh their time is done. Let other deal with it. That's fine, but I know quite a few, and I know a LOT of Army Rangers (uncle) and this kind of stuff is all we talk about (guns and subjects about guns) and I dont think I've met one that would just stand down
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:56 PM   #95
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Its all relative. You hear a sound in your living room or something, sure, poke your head around the corner (pistol in hand if you choose) and see what it is. If its something that sounds alot more like a possible threat, think harder about taking defensive rather than offensive action.

I dont think I have to explain the difference between hearing what is most likely a harmless sound like your air freshener falling out of the wall plug, versus the sound of broken glass, voices, etc.
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:56 PM   #96
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They would have laughed your ass right out of that school if you had tried to do a solo room clear without cover.
And I would not try to clear an unfamiliar school either (or any unfamiliar building).
But we are not talking about one man clearing some large structure that he is unfamiliar with....we're talking about YOU clearing YOUR OWN HOME.

Tell me, and be honest....

Do you truely believe that you cannot clear your own home better than the average cop in your hometown?
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Old August 30, 2007, 08:59 PM   #97
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Theyve been practicing in this school for years and years. Sure its not their own home, but theyre not walking into a completely unfamiliar building either.
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:00 PM   #98
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I just wet my pants. Oops
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:03 PM   #99
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So much for the original question......
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Old August 30, 2007, 09:07 PM   #100
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Its all relative. You hear a sound in your living room or something, sure, poke your head around the corner (pistol in hand if you choose) and see what it is. If its something that sounds alot more like a possible threat, think harder about taking defensive rather than offensive action.
This gets to the real issue....

With a few exceptions (those who would barricade themselves and dial 911 at the slightest hint of danger), I think that most of the folks here would not hesitate to investigate a small unusual noise.
But many apparently balk at investigating noises that are obviously caused by another person or animal.

This makes no sense.

Why?

Because the danger to yourself is the same regardless of the amount of noise!

Actually, the noisier the intruder is, the greater the chances that they are not very experienced, or are drunk, or just plain stupid.
An experienced thief, or an intruder with murder on his mind is much less likely to make alot of noise.
In other words....it's the little "bumb" in the night that is probably more indicative of a dangerous predator.
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