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Old August 19, 2007, 04:06 PM   #1
j. villarreal
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vaquero bird's head vs. cimarron thunderer

which would you guys pick? i've heard lots of great things about the vaqueros but am not that familiar with the cimarron thunderer.

jason
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Old August 19, 2007, 05:20 PM   #2
bulbboy
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I can only tell of my experience with Rugers. I have 5 now and they are all great!! Whether it be the DA revolvers (GP100 and SP101), the Mark III Hunter .22, or the SA revolvers (New Vaquero .357 and Vaquero Montedo .45 LC). I've been turned into a huge Ruger fan. I have never heard anything bad about the Cimarrons, but I can tell you the Rugers are awesome!!


you might also check out the Beretta Stampede Marshall - I have one and its a blast to shoot.
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Old August 19, 2007, 06:42 PM   #3
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The Thunderer/Marshall type grip frame is GREAT as long as your horsepower needs aren't extreme. In other words, at some recoil level the gun will try and tear your thumb web in half rather than rolling in the grip. Typical self defense loads should be OK, but at the highest end of the 357Mag spectrum or higher you might run into trouble.

I'm not saying "avoid", I'm saying "evaluate your needs".

The Ruger Bird's Head and similar QPR Bird's Head grips are small yet still roll and for some people with smaller hands provide excellent recoil control - some report respectable comfort into high-end 44Mag power levels.
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Old August 19, 2007, 10:24 PM   #4
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I'm not up on these, but, the Ruger has a working transfer bar. I'd make sure the cimarron does too, or, you are buying a five shooter.

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Old August 20, 2007, 12:00 AM   #5
Jim March
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The Berettas have transfer bars. The Ubertis, Cimarrons and such don't.

Beretta bought Uberti recently and specified that the guns under their brand would have transfer bars. Other than that the guns are similar - high-end Ubertis will be similar in QC to Berettas.
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Old August 20, 2007, 12:38 AM   #6
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I would recommend the Ruger version. The combination of it's weight and the shape of the grip make for a very comfortable shooting experience. As I mentioned in PM the one I have is a .45colt and it is a leasure to take to the range.

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Old August 20, 2007, 02:28 AM   #7
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Wonder if that lil gun would take my Buffalobore ammo?
Half the fun of the 45 Colt, in a strong gun, is, you just bought a 44 magnum on steroids...

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Old August 20, 2007, 07:23 AM   #8
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It is my assumption that Ruger quit making the BHG because their newly adopted hammer spring lock couldn't be fitted. It is probably the reason that the shortened BH gripframe has drifted into oblivion as well. Of course, you can always retrofit a QPR BHG frame, in the raw, to other Rugers - as I have done with a 4.6" Super Blackhawk (.44M). As J.M. said, the ball-like Ruger - or QPR - BHG, usually in black Micarta, rolls easily in your hand, transferring muzzle flip into a dedicated muzzle rise - like an anti-aircraft gun, with warm plus .44M loads. The Ruger BHG, like their Bisley grip, is a crude, at best, interpretation of the original grips - and, in general, quite an operational improvement.The clone interpretation is close to the originals - and a bit 'odd' if you are accustomed to the Rugers. The original BHG is more of a handfilling, if small, grab, where the Ruger BHG is, as I said, more ball-like. That actually puts the 'ball' more naturally in the 'socket' of your palm - a decent recoil transfer. The original BHG is a great hide-a-way, even if you 'feel' the recoil a bit more.

I know modern Uberti's are fine - and Beretta has raised the bar for them. My experience with new Rugers has not been stellar. They - produced from 2000-2006 - have had a myriad of problems. Ruger had to replace a few pieces - including the cylinder - on a two-day old Redhawk. The remainder have been fixed here - I have become somewhat adept at fixing many aggravating QC shortcomings - including the finish, only possible because I buy SS. Still, my .45 BHG Vaquero, .44M SBH with BHG, and .32 BHG SSM (All 4.6", SS, and with black Micarta BHG.) are keepers - as is the 4" .32M SP101... but only after some work. Check out your new Ruger purchase carefully.

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Old August 20, 2007, 08:26 AM   #9
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The BHG and the short BH grip frame were phased out I'm told due to the lack of sales for thoe models. the short frame was only used on the .32 mag Single Sixes which met it's fate a second time. It was also the last model to use the birdshead gripframe as well. Even the large frame Vaqueros weren't overly popular with this gripframe. Many just don't care for the different design, especially with the heavier recoil loads. Me, I like 'em. I think they're a bit out of proportion on the large frames but on the small frames, they fit perfectly.
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Old August 20, 2007, 08:36 PM   #10
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I get REAL sick of hearing Ruger gun models don't sell. I've seen ONE birdshead grip gun, and, if I'd had money with me, I'd still probably have taken it home, until it dawned on me it had probably a screwed up cylinder, a junk barrel, and God knows what else wrong with it.

Likewise the .480 Ruger SRH Alaskan. I'd grab one in a heart beat. However, I've NEVER even seen one out here, in any of the 3 gun stores I go to.

I think Ruger turns out tiny production runs on this stuff, doesn't get them into many markets, then say they can't sell them, and go back to the regular stuff.

I often wonder how that company stays in business...

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Old September 1, 2007, 12:00 PM   #11
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If Ruger would make more of them - I would buy a couple!
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Old September 1, 2007, 01:07 PM   #12
j. villarreal
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playboy, have you made any modifications to your ruger bird's head or is that what they all look fresh out of the oven?

jason

Last edited by j. villarreal; September 1, 2007 at 11:38 PM.
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Old September 2, 2007, 09:14 PM   #13
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I just picked up a Uberti Cattleman a couple of days ago, and it sure shoots nice. VERY accurate.
I'm totally new with the modern cowboy guns, but I hope that this gun is as good as it looks and shoots right now when it's new.
The feel is like the cowboy single action pellet gun that my Dad gave me to learn to shoot pistols when I was young.


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Old May 12, 2013, 07:05 AM   #14
asaphjubal
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cimarron thunderer vrs ruger

It is likely that someone has already made a purchase concerning the thunderer vrs the Ruger. I have both and shoot both in 44 special (ruger is a vaquero). Loaded with 17 grains of 2400, the 250 bullet is quite a handfull but the birdshead gives more positive puchase that the plow handle grip.
I normally shoot 5.3 grains of bullseye and that shoots to point of aim with both guns in a 200 grain RNFP bullet.
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Old May 12, 2013, 08:16 AM   #15
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I love Ruger single actions, for their transfer bar (can safely carry six rounds) and for their customer service and ease of maintenance.

I no longer have this Birdshead in 45 ACP.....


but replaced it with this 44 Special Vaquero with short barrel...
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Old May 12, 2013, 09:58 AM   #16
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Cimarron offers some nice pistols, but I don't care for the Thunderer because it's pretending to be something it isn't. The Colt M1877 (which is called the "Thunderer," but was not so designated by the factory) was a double action revolver chambered in .41 Long Colt, with a distinctive variant of a birdshead grip. Now, Cimarron comes along and slaps a reproduction of the M1877 grip into a single action pistol chambered in .45 Colt and they call it "Thunderer." I don't approve of such playing fast and loose with historical references.

Further, the grip design (and the entire M1877 line) was not designed for nor offered in the .45 Colt chambering, and the grip design probably isn't well suited to such a powerful cartridge. The original chamberings were .32 Colt ("Rainmaker"), .38 Long Colt ("Lightning"), and .41 Long Colt ("Thunderer").
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Old May 12, 2013, 07:42 PM   #17
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Old May 13, 2013, 04:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Cimarron offers some nice pistols, but I don't care for the Thunderer because it's pretending to be something it isn't. The Colt M1877 (which is called the "Thunderer," but was not so designated by the factory) was a double action revolver chambered in .41 Long Colt, with a distinctive variant of a birdshead grip. Now, Cimarron comes along and slaps a reproduction of the M1877 grip into a single action pistol chambered in .45 Colt and they call it "Thunderer." I don't approve of such playing fast and loose with historical references.

Further, the grip design (and the entire M1877 line) was not designed for nor offered in the .45 Colt chambering, and the grip design probably isn't well suited to such a powerful cartridge. The original chamberings were .32 Colt ("Rainmaker"), .38 Long Colt ("Lightning"), and .41 Long Colt ("Thunderer").
Everything is based on something. I'd be more inclined to judge it based on its own merit. With that in mind, the Thunderer works better than a regular birdshead for controlling the sixgun.
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Old May 21, 2015, 07:25 PM   #19
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i agree with STAINZ about the rugers. ruger is not the perfect company like so many people believe! even they make mistakes-- i bought a brand new birds head new vaquero & i had to send it back immediately to the factory for repair. the ratchet needed fixing because one chamber on the cylinder was rubbing up against the forcing cone. safety issue.
i have a cimarron thunderer & it did not have smooth hammer pull/ action so i had to spend extra money for a gunsmith to do that. i have heard cimarrons ubertis are inconsistent in that respect. i was very disappointed with both companies.
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Old May 21, 2015, 08:57 PM   #20
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Jabberwock,
I see that this was your first post, but in the future, you may want to note the posts' dates. This is an almost 8 year old thread that was revived 2 years ago.
Something tells me the OP has moved on, and judging by the fact that I don't recognize his or her username from more recent threads, I doubt that he or she will be back any time soon to check up on this.
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Old May 22, 2015, 11:33 AM   #21
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I have four Ruger SA revolvers, two Bisleys, one Super Blackhawk and the Birdshead New Vaquero in the picture.
I also have two Cimarron Uberti SA revolvers one model P-OM (which is desined after the original Colt) and a Bisley model.

The two Uberti revolvers have better fitting, finish, lock-up and trigger pulls right out of the box then any of my Rugers.
The fitting of the grips on my two Ruger Bisley revolvers is terrible, gaps big enough between the frame and the grip that you could throw a cat through.

For those that may think I'm bashing Rugers, I'm not, I'm just stating facts about the SA revolvers I own.

Two of my SA revolvers are 44mag, the other four are 45 Colt.
The 45 Colt loads I shoot in my revolvers are consider tier two loads (around 21,000 PSI).
For me the Bisleys and Birdshead grip are the most comfortable with these loads.

I don't like my revolvers to roll in my hand because when they do they bash the trigger guard into my second finger of my shooting hand, after awhile that starts to become painful, especially when shooting stouter loads.

The Birdshead Vaquero in the picture has wider grips then the stock grips that came on the gun, I prefer my grips to have more girth.
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Old May 25, 2015, 10:26 AM   #22
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Quote:
I don't like my revolvers to roll in my hand because when they do they bash the trigger guard into my second finger of my shooting hand, after awhile that starts to become painful, especially when shooting stouter loads.
I discovered this problem when shooting my 7.5" Blackhawk .45 Colt. With 250gr bullets, when the velocity gets about 1200fps the standard grip is no longer comfortable. Took me a while to figure out why my middle finger hurt after a cylinder full.

My solution was Pachmayr grips, which fill in behind the triggerguard, and reducing my GP load to about 1100fps.

Had a friend who got a Birdshead Vaquero .44Mag. He has small hands, and short thumbs, and put in a Bisley hammer. Nice feeling gun, until you shoot it.

With a 240gr at 1100fps it is not pleasant, and with full house .44 Mag loads, its rather painful. At standard .44 Special/ .45 Colt levels its fun to shoot. Above that, ....not so much...
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Old May 26, 2015, 05:20 PM   #23
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rugers hands down
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Old May 26, 2015, 07:11 PM   #24
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This post is from 2007 . . . almost as old as the socks I'm wearing!

By now, whatever the OP decided on should be well broken in . . .
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Old May 27, 2015, 06:34 AM   #25
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I have a Cimarron a real pretty gun, it isn't very accurate though shoots real low, poi to poa is probably 6 inches at 15 yards. I read in a few different places a lot of people file down the front blade. Other than that a nice gun with a smooth and light trigger
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