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Old August 17, 2007, 04:04 PM   #1
Manedwolf
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Looting and assaults in Peru...post-disaster to watch

This is why it's important to be armed. If we had an 8.0 quake in the US, I bet it'd look much the same.

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Looting, assaults in Peru quake aftermath

Lima (dpa) - Assaults and looting started to become prevalent on Friday in the Peruvian region of Ica, the area most affected by an earthquake that claimed the lives of more than 400 people.

In Pisco, the city most affected by the quake, a crowd raided a pharmacy and took whatever they could find before Peruvian television cameras. Attackers defended their actions by saying they still have not received help.

City residents said similar incidents were seen in several areas of Pisco, which already had severe crime problems before the tragedy.

Freddy Ternero, mayor of the San Martin de Porres district in Lima, attempted to take aid to the affected areas on behalf of his constituency. But outside the city of Ica his truck and several others were attacked by some 300 people who wanted to take their loads, he told Peruvian television.

Ternero requested the presence of police or the army in the area devastated by Wednesday's earthquake, and said that when the attempted robbery failed attackers threw stones at the vehicles.

There were also reports of robberies in rural areas that rescue teams had not yet reached.

"I hope the government manages to distribute aid soon, because people are getting desperate," said Ternero, a popular figure after coaching the country's national football team.

Some 30,000 buildings were thought to have collapsed and more than 85,000 Peruvians were made homeless by the quake. Rescue teams were still searching for survivors under the rubble, while the worst-hit cities were still without water and electricity supplies Friday.
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Old August 18, 2007, 06:20 AM   #2
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It would happen here and already has in various forms when we had roits, floods, earthquakes, etc. Be ready!
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Old August 18, 2007, 09:52 AM   #3
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Civilization is a thin veneer over the human animal.
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Old August 18, 2007, 10:18 AM   #4
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Imagine a terror attack here consuming a whole city. Be prepared for both defense and survival. Those who fail to prepare will attempt to take your goods when hungry...........history has proven this many times over.
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Old August 18, 2007, 10:41 AM   #5
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News is now reporting widespread gunfire by people who are trying to ward off looters from what's left of their homes and property. Several cities have over 85% of their buildings destroyed.

This is definitely a lesson to watch for "when civilization fails".

And yes, that's it, exactly. That happened after Katrina, too. Grasshoppers tried to take things from the ants who had prepared. I know of at least one incident where a guy with a fuel tank in the back of his truck would have been jumped outside of a wal-mart if he'd not had an AK with him...that caused them to flee.
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Old August 18, 2007, 11:13 AM   #6
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Being a glass half empty kind of guy I always tend to look at the worst case scenario. I have not only prepared (weapon wise) for my family but for a few other families whom I might need to help defend essentials in a group type deal. A one hand washes the other deal.

None of the other members of my family has prepared for much more than a hurricane. Even with that they lack weaponry to defend themselves properly. Yes despite my preaching LOL.

Defending against the lawless is one thing. They can be deterred easily by simply making it harder for them than other victims. Defending against people starving and desperate is another. When life and death are at stake people tend to fight harder. Not to mention a whole lot more folks to contend with that wouldn't ordinarily do such things.
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Old August 18, 2007, 11:52 AM   #7
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Armored, you couldn't have put it any better.
My wake-up call came as I watched NOLA in the aftermath of Katrina. Civilization essentially broke down, chaos and desperation ruled. Made me realize how close to the brink of anarchy and chaos we really live.
Be prepared.
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Old August 18, 2007, 01:56 PM   #8
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I agree with threegun. It can happen here. Be prepared. Have a good .308 or .223 semiautomatic rifle with plenty of spare magazines, a cood handgun and emergency supplies. Your life may depend on it.
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Old August 18, 2007, 05:57 PM   #9
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Now I'm going to have to buy another 12 ga.
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Old August 19, 2007, 06:24 AM   #10
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Prior to the year 2000 or Y2K as the chicken littles called it I thought chaos and desperation would rule. I began preparing and thinking. I still have the extra weapons that I stocked should I need to arm some friends (or family) less prepared than myself but capable of helping in a group type setting. So get that extra weapon or two. Keep them even though selling them would allow you to buy another kool toy. You just never know.

Even a cheap SKS rifle with a bunch of stripper clips would make potent riot suppression. A family group armed with several of these will probably keep their food LOL. Katrina and other examples demand it.
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Old August 20, 2007, 05:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
In Pisco, the city most affected by the quake, a crowd raided a pharmacy and took whatever they could find before Peruvian television cameras. Attackers defended their actions by saying they still have not received help.
In America, it's legal to loot in light of natural disaster if the cause is to sustain life.
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Old August 20, 2007, 05:36 PM   #12
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"In America, it's legal to loot in light of natural disaster if the cause is to sustain life."

Is that true? Coukd you please cite a source?
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Old August 20, 2007, 07:09 PM   #13
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I know of no such legalities. If you break into someone's property or what's left of it and steal their goods, you're looting. That is never legal.

Of course, people who think it's "okay" to loot because they're hungry and you have food is why you need to be armed!

Just watch what happens to the Mexican coastal resorts after this hurricane hits them, if you want another lesson. Ten to one the cameras will show "hungry" people helping themselves to everything they can carry out of the resorts.

Point being...in any natural disaster, the more desparate people get, the more desparate things they'll do, which is why...being armed is so important. It lets you say "No, this food belongs to me and my family. No, this water and this generator are mine. You can't have them." ...even to a mob that would otherwise beat you and take it all. Because no matter how desparate people are, they do tend to flee when presented with the wrong end of a rifle or shotgun. Or several.

These are just reminders, in realtime, of the need for firearms. In Peru, it's all that's letting people hang onto what they have, and the same could and would happen here!
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Old August 20, 2007, 07:17 PM   #14
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Dont think it is ever legal to loot. After Katrina there was mass looting, they just chose not to detain some that were looting baby formula and other necessities.
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Old August 20, 2007, 07:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
In America, it's legal to loot in light of natural disaster if the cause is to sustain life.
If someone knows a cite for this, it'd make interesting reading. As I recall, in the aftermath of a disaster, the key element for authorities is to look at the items you've taken to see if it's life-sustaining type goods or if you're just taking what you can carry. Food items, limited medicines, limited clothing can all be looked at as such. But someone carting out three plasma TV's or taking jewelry is looting for profit.

Quote:
City residents said similar incidents were seen in several areas of Pisco, which already had severe crime problems before the tragedy.
Key element here is that this area was already a high crime area. Certainly we have these in the U.S. and would likely see similar problems.

I would like to say that with the average U.S. citizen in a much better financial condition, we wouldn't see quite as much in the way of desperation. But I think there wouldn't be too much difference because we have many on the lower rungs of the economy who can't stock up on supplies, people who live in apartments that will be destroyed along with any supplies and those like Threegun's relatives who simply don't prepare in advance.

When it comes to defending one's own home or campsite after a disaster, the difficult part is determining the desperate from the predatory.

The predators are easy to deal with. Shoot them. Those in desperation, especially for their families, are more difficult to deal with. You want to avoid shooting them but they aren't always rational. Giving them food could either set a mob upon them or could bring the mob to you for freebies.

As to weapons and being prepared, now is the time to discuss such things with your neighbors (especially those in cities) and create an outline plan to support each other. Nothing will deter like the presence of multiple armed men.
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Old August 21, 2007, 06:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Nothing will deter like the presence of multiple armed men.
Plus multiples allow you to rest when needed in shifts.
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Old August 21, 2007, 11:18 PM   #17
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This "prepared" idea has been on my mind for a while also. Currently, both of my sons live within a mile of my home. I've wanted us to collaborate in regard to our supply list. I have more space,(for storage), than either of them and more room if we needed to combine living quarters. In fact, my co-worker was commenting on this very thing today. He said some of the same things we have said in this thread.

It can get expensive, true...but its not a thing to be ignored. The hardest to deal with is water. We people need a lot of water and its hard to plan ahead...and store...and keep it potable.

Mark.
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Old August 23, 2007, 02:40 AM   #18
BillCA
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Quote:
We people need a lot of water and its hard to plan ahead...and store...and keep it potable
Several companies make large polymer water drums (mostly blue colored) for this purpose. They aren't cheap, but when you run out of water they would have been worth twice the price.

Quote:
I've wanted us to collaborate in regard to our supply list. I have more space,(for storage), than either of them
Good idea, however they should have at least a 3-4 day kit for their families on their own. Thus not all eggs are in one basket should your home be the worst affected in a disaster.
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Old August 26, 2007, 06:30 AM   #19
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Deleted post to spare thread from axe.

Last edited by threegun; August 26, 2007 at 06:19 PM. Reason: save thread from the axe
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Old August 26, 2007, 10:52 AM   #20
Manedwolf
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If people go off into SHTF survival stuff about water storage, the thread is gonna get closed...

I was pointing out how the sudden disaster in Peru, the destruction of roads, the loss of all infrastructure and up to 85% of the buildings in the cities led to an instant breakdown in society, and how, once again, firearms in the hands of private citizens were all that were allowing them to defend their families from the looters that quickly appeared to swarm supply trucks and damaged properties.
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Old August 27, 2007, 11:46 PM   #21
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Hard Ball

Ref your post #12
" Is this true?, Can you please cite a source."

During the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina:
Activist Reverend Al Sharpton justified the looting of everything,
in the name of " survival " ...said so on national tv.
Sooo........you know it must be ok.

BillCA....Ref your post #15
+1
Well Said
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Old August 28, 2007, 08:27 AM   #22
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If you haven't read him, yet, you should.

FerFAL

(He's my hero!)
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Old August 28, 2007, 09:49 AM   #23
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For those of you who may be procrastinators, here's a little story!

I was an LAPD officer when the Rodney King riot took place. I was on-duty, on the day shift, when the "not guilty" verdicts were handed down, and just KNEW that my shift would be held over. I was wrong, for the riotting hadn't started by the time 4:00 p.m. rolled in. Even though I wouldn't have to work over-time, I high-tailed it home, so that I could catch the TV news.

On my way home, however, I happened to be close to my favorite gun store. I decided to stop in, just to see if gun sales had increased. The parking lot was FULL, so I had to park at another location.

The gun store was PACKED! Ammo was flying off of the shelves! Gun buyers took up all of the display case area as they filled out the forms for their guns. The employees were busy as heck, and I was about to walk out of the store before the manager (a friend of mine) saw me. He stepped over and asked if I would "escort" him outside, so that he could have a cigarette! "Escort" him?

We made it outside, and the manager lit up. "It's crazy!", he started, puffing away nervously. "People want their guns NOW, not in 10 days!", he exclaimed, referring to the California 10-day waiting period. "I can't tell you how many bribes I've turned down!", he added.

As we stood outside the store, a prospective gun buyer approached my friend, knowing that he was the manager of the store. "I just paid for my Ruger 10/22 rifle, but what's with the 10-day waiting period?", the customer asked. "State law!", my friend responded, politely adding, "I'd sure LIKE to give you your rifle today, but you'll have to come back in 10 days to pick it up."

The customer paused for a moment, then asked, "Well, how about an extra $100 if you overlook that law?", he asked. My friend shook his head. "Okay, $200?", the customer asked. While the 3 of us stood there, that customer increased his "bribe" all the way to $2,000!
At that point, my friend asked me to intervene, since he knew that I was a police officer. I laughed, then pulled out my badge and showed it to the customer. I didn't say a word! The customer just shook his head as he walked out to the parking lot.

The GOVERNMENT will NOT help you! In many ways, it will only "hinder" you! In this case, the 10-day waiting period was a "hindrance" to the folks that felt that they needed a firearm NOW....not 10 days later! As we saw in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the government can become even MORE of a "hindrance" than help!

"It's better to HAVE a gun and not NEED it, than to NEED a gun and not HAVE it!"

(By the way, when the National Guard troops FINALLY arrived at their designated staging areas, they had their GUNS, but....no AMMO! The NG ammo storage is "centralized", not stored at all NG armories! Their ammunition convoy was held up in the heavy traffic, due to the riotting and people "bugging out"! Sometimes, even the government is a "hindrance" to itself!)
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Old August 28, 2007, 10:27 AM   #24
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I don't even want to think about what could happen if a national or global pandemic broke out. Something like Avian Flu or SARS. I expect that quarentine measures would be taken to prevent travel or even public gathering of people. No transportation, no food delivery and lots of desperate people. Especially in the urban areas. I received an emergency preparedness package from my county government saying that some form of emergency food supplies and water should be stored in case of pandemic. If something did happen it would be too late to start preparing.
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Old August 28, 2007, 12:05 PM   #25
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What about a radiological terror attack?
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