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Old August 9, 2007, 10:53 AM   #1
Dean407
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Les Baer Premier II vs SIG 226 X5 Tactical

Want a nice range gun.

Different directions to go...

Les Baer Premier II

http://www.lesbaer.com/duty.html

(or other Les Baer)

SIG 226 X5 Tactical

http://www.sigarms.com/Products/Show...&productid=144

My current gun is a HK P2000SK 9mm I use for carry.

It would be nice to own a nice 1911.

The 226 X5 Tactical is in 9mm which is what I have and I had a P229 and like the quality of SIG if ya get a good example.

The LB PII and 226 X5 Tac are the same price, just under $1400.

I have smallish hands- so the 1911 would be a better grip, but the 226 isn't bad.

Hmmmm....

What say you folks?
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Old August 9, 2007, 03:09 PM   #2
Socrates
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WOW!!!

What a can of worms. First, you're comparing 45 and 9mm.
Then a 1911 Vs. a Sig.

BUY BOTH.

If you can't afford both, then the Sig is probably the choice, since ammo is cheaper. That said, my experience has been it's harder to get an accurate 9mm gun/load combination then an accurate 45/gun/ load combo.

45 is much more expensive.

The ONLY 9mm I'd consider is the Sig you posted, and, you have it at a great price.

I'd check on Les Baer's and make sure they use all forged parts. If not, I'd look at Ed Brown and Detonics.

Dr S
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Old August 9, 2007, 03:20 PM   #3
BigJimP
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There is more than one model of the X-Five - I have the X Five (with the wood grips and the adj trigger ) in .40 S&W and it's available in 9mm as well. The other X Fives do not have the adj trigger system - so I would not buy one of them.

Les Baers guns shoot very well - but they are so darn tight, they are a giant pain in the butt to get apart ( and unneccesarily tight, in my view). I have 2 Baer's both Monolith models one in .45 and one in 9mm . I can't in all honesty recommend the Baer - it just is not that good a gun.

My X Five is one of my favorites and I shoot it a lot - my favorite 9mm is a Wilson Combat Protector model in all stainless. It shoots as well as my Baer Monolith in 9mm - and frankly is a better looking gun / and I don't need a 5 lb mallet to get the darn bushing out of the slide .....

I won't buy another Baer - but more Wilsons are on my Xmas list. I've been tempted to add another X Five to my safe in 9mm - but frankly the Wilson Protector is as good a gun - and since the X Five is about $2,450 now it is about the same price as a new Wilson and I have 5 9mm's now and that's probably enough anyway.
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Old August 9, 2007, 03:40 PM   #4
evan1293
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Go with the baer. Ive had a bunch including a TRS, Prem II 1.5", and concept III. I've never owned the X-5 but I handled it and it doesn't hold a candle to the way the 1911 fits in my hand. Yes the LBs are tight guns but they're made for the long haul. After about 10,000 rounds the slide feels like its on ball bearings and the bushing comes out by hand with ease. It literally takes at least this long to break. If you shoot a ton go with a bear. I had about 50k through one of mine and it would still shoot 1" or better at 25yrds. I can't name too many guns that can do that out of the box let alone after 50K. Both are great guns but if it were me I would choose the baer hands down.
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Old August 9, 2007, 04:10 PM   #5
Socrates
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BigJimP
Thanks!!
Great feedback. So the cheaper X fives don't have an adjustable trigger? Wondered why the huge difference in cost.

How much under the 4.5 pound stock trigger pull could a good gunsmith get the Sig trigger??? Figure 100 bucks for a trigger job on a 1400 dollar gun beats 2600 for one with a trigger I'd set, and leave anyway.

According to Evan, sounds like you either out to get out those Baer's and shoot'em, or sell em.

No disrespect meant, but, 10k on a Sig is barely broken in:
http://www.galleryofguns.com/Shootin...es.asp?ID=1230

By the way, BigJimP, what ammo works well in your sig, and, what are your groups like? Likewise, groups and ammo in the Baers?

As for guns that shoot 1" at 25 yards, how about cloverleaf
at 50 yards, on a bad day? At 25 yards a .475" one hole...



This one punches about .3" holes with a cylinder at 25 yards:

And this one will put a cylinder into .525"


Point being, when you start paying that kind of money, you might want to consider something other then an auto.

FA's are avaliable for around 1k-2000 used, and, they are pretty much the most accurate firearm you can buy, or darn close.

DR S
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Old August 9, 2007, 07:32 PM   #6
BigJimP
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What's nice about the top of the line X-Five is it's adjustable from 2 - 4.5 lbs ( I think) so you can shoot it at whatever suits you. I have my X Five set at about 2.5 lbs ( it was about 2 lbs right out of the box ). I think you're looking at about $300 - $500 for a good trigger job on that gun and I doubt they would get it much below 3 1/2 lbs - but if I were to do that, I would probably go with the guy in southern CA that advertises he does the best trigger jobs on sigs. So it would be a little cheaper - but you would never have the full adjustability of the top end gun.

Only 2 of the X-Five models have a deep well mag - which I like - the all around and the tactical models are really more like the standard 226 guns than the top end model. 3 of the 4 models of the X Five models are all stainless one has the standard Sig finish on it. The other reason the X-Five shoots so well is it's a beast at 55 - 60oz with a full mag in it. Theres not much to dislike about the X-Five if you like a good heavy gun and a SIG in SAO. But the X-Five all around is a DA/SA trigger too like 10 lbs / 4.5 lbs so it's really a standard 226 model ....

As far as groups out of my X-Five it will easily shoot 1 1/2" group at 25 yards ( maybe a little tighter ) but that's plenty good enough for my needs. All of my Les Baers, my Ed Brown and my Wilson Combat's will shoot 1 1/2 " groups at 25 yards too.

No disrespect to the other responders - but its a pretty nice problem to have where I have a couple of Les Baer's, a few Wilson Combat's and some Sigs to shoot in 9mm, .40 or .45 ......and a beautiful wife who is very tolerant of my gun collection. I know you weren't serious about me selling the Baer's - and honestly, I really like the Monolith model, full dust cover, heavier, etc from Baer ..... and it's hard to put down any of those 3 mfg's ....but I have to tell you, hands down my favorite guns of the bunch, that I own, are my Wilson Combat's .

As far as ammo, I reload my own - and I stick with Montana Gold bullets, Hodgdon Titegroup powder and CCI primers. I've shot some Winchester factory ammo thru most of my guns - and my groups tightened up at least 25% when I went to my own reloads. I stick with Montana Gold Bullets in CMJ - vs FMJ for less smoke, since I shoot at an indoor range most of the time - and they're a real consistent weighted bullet. Rainier ballistics, etc are cheaper but they vary as much as 4 or 5 grains in a 180 grain bullet in .40 S&W where the Montana Gold only vary + - 0.2 of a grain. A good reloading press will give you good results - and I use a Dillon 650XL for all my metallic loading. I'm real happy with the press as well - and it cranks out a good consistent load / better than factory ammo.

I realize it makes me a pack rat - I've never sold a gun - but if I ever want to get rid of one of the Baer's I will let you know ........

I agree with you about the accuracy of your revolvers - I'm more a Smith & Wesson guy - model 27's, 29's etc ( and I have several of those as well ...) but in terms of accuracy, you have some nice guns there. But it's kind of like beer........man can't just live on one kind only ......

Take care.
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Old August 9, 2007, 07:44 PM   #7
Dean407
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I will likely get the Baer. Just deciding which one.

I'll revisit the 226 another time.
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Old August 9, 2007, 08:03 PM   #8
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Given a choice, I think 45 ACP is inherently more accurate, and easier to come up with a combination that works.

Again, I think with decent target ammo, your Kimber maybe more accurate then you think.
However, I'd never shoot down someone trying to justify buying a Les Baer...

Before you decide, you might give Ed Brown a call, and ask what kind of accuracy they get with the bull barrels they produce. I suggest this, since the most accurate gun, for size, I ever had was a Detonics Combat Master VI, actually two VI's, and a VII. They out shot EVERYTHING we had, and, this included a Colt Python, Colt Gold Cup series 70,
Sig Sauer P220, and P226 or 9, can't remember which, two Browning Hi Powers, Walthers, etc. They did NOT out shoot my Seville, 45 Colt/Linebaugh, that shot 3" at 100 yards, out of a rest.

Dr S

Dr S
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Old August 10, 2007, 11:41 AM   #9
BigJimP
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If you really want a Baer - look at the Monolith or the Heavyweight Monolith models. It's a good clean look - and a little heavier. It's a good model in 9mm or .45 ACP but mine at least is more accurate in 9mm .
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Old August 10, 2007, 05:42 PM   #10
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I vote for the Baer PII in 9mm. I've had mine for almost a year now and consider it my favorite range gun. It is accurate and easy to shoot well. The only issue with the gun was the field strip process. The bushing was rediculously tight and tough to remove. I spoke to Les Baer who said send it back and he'd have a look. Took about a week, but was worth it. He polished the slide to bushing surfaces so that the bushing rotates with a smooth firm twist of a wrench. I also had the trigger pull set to 3 1/2 lbs. and a fiber optic front sight installed.

Compared to the monolith I don't know. I haven't tried the monolith in 9mm but I wonder if the added weight is as benificial as it is with 45.

The adjustable trigger on the 226 X5 sounds interesting. I would like to know a lot more about it before I would be really comfortable with it. Accidental followup shots would be my concern. Though strictly for range use I guess you could get away with 2 lbs. But why... Then again SIGs usually are well done.

As said before you have a good problem.
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Old August 10, 2007, 05:48 PM   #11
Socrates
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How accurate are these 9's? What ammo did you use, to get what group size?
How well do they shoot with cheap ammo?

Same questions about the Baers...

Dr JDS
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Old August 11, 2007, 03:35 PM   #12
StrawDog
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The 9mm Les Baer with the 1.5" option ships with a test target to confirm the group is under 1.5" at 50 yards. I believe that the factory uses federal ammo. I regret to inform the world that I have yet to perfect my skills enough to do this justace offhand, but I have cheated, used a rest, to get nickel size groups at approx 35 feet with remmington 115g. I've shot some cheaper cci blazer which seems ok for practice but never from a rest.
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Old August 11, 2007, 08:28 PM   #13
sig-9
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I also have small hands & the Les Baer I find to feel just right to me.
I have a Les Baer Premier II that I will never get rid of. I had 3 Les Baers & I am now down to 2. I just sold my Concept V stainless last week. The PII (just the syandard 3" grouping & I did have the slide hard chromed) is the one I like the best. Groups better then I can so no need for the 1 1/2".

I also have a Sig 220 that is a great shooter. If you have small hands, I would get the Sig Short Triger installed on any Sig.

I am looking at the Sig 220 SAO. Cock & Lock like a 1911. Going to have to get me one of them but the Les Baer PII will not be going anywhere.

Go for both the Les Baer PII & the Sig 220SAO.
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