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Old July 25, 2007, 11:50 PM   #1
jamescrantz
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Lightweight .308 Battle Rifle

I am looking to purchase a SHTF battle rifle in .308 caliber. I want it to be semi-auto, and somewhat lightweight. I also want a 20" barrel or shorter. I would like it to have a heavy match grade barrel, similar to the Bushmaster Predator. But I don't want a rifle that uses direct impingement though, with the larger round - I need it to be reliable. From what I've been reading, an AR-10 or the Bushmaster .308 probably aren't the best way to go - due to using the "dirty" direct impingement system. (Of course if I have been misinformed, please let me know). I would like it to be very accurate (comparable to the Predator), and would like to have a quickly attachable/removable scope, and adjustable iron sights. I want it to be reliable under adverse conditions as well - I don't want it jamming up on me if it gets a bit wet or dirty. I am looking to spend under $2000, not including optics and other goodies (but if it runs up to $2500, I can deal with it). What type of rifle would you guys recommend that fits this description.

Thanks,
James
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Old July 26, 2007, 12:03 AM   #2
Yithian
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Well, its not a .308, but its close. Its the new 6.8 SPC.

LWRC.
M6A2 - 6.8 SPC SRT


Uses something like 80% of the same parts as the AR-15.
LWRC Technology.

--
Then there's the RobArms XCR

Both look like tons of fun to me.
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Old July 26, 2007, 12:57 AM   #3
jamescrantz
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I am looking for a more common round.

From what I've been reading, the 6.8 SPC sounds great, but I am looking for something that has more common ammunition -- hence the .308.

Thanks for the recommendations though, they all look like great guns.

--James
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Old July 26, 2007, 01:03 AM   #4
RevolverLover
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What do you consider light weight?
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Old July 26, 2007, 01:07 AM   #5
jamescrantz
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What I consider lightweight...

10 pounds or less ideally (unloaded)...

--James
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Old July 26, 2007, 01:14 AM   #6
ostrobothnian
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the best - the FAL

Here ya go buddy.

http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58TACP

Just what the doctor ordered.
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Old July 26, 2007, 01:16 AM   #7
jamescrantz
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SA58 is looking good...

Thanks ostro, that does indeed look like it might be what the doctor ordered. I especially like that it takes the cheap and plentiful FAL mags. I'll do more research on them and report back with what I find. Thanks for the help...

--James
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Old July 26, 2007, 01:18 AM   #8
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The Springfield Scout Squad and Socom 16 M1A's come to mind.

There are also the DSA FAL's that should meet your specs. They even have a Predator series with a similar setup to the Bushmaster predator AR.
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Old July 26, 2007, 01:19 AM   #9
ostrobothnian
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check it out

Swing by the ole www.falfiles.com. You'll be hooked (on the worlds finest MBR IMHO).
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Old July 26, 2007, 01:19 AM   #10
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Springfield M1A Scout.

18" barrel
7.62x51mmNATO/.308
9 lbs. - fiberglass stock
2- stage military trigger 5-6 lbs.
National Match Sights
$1,500

I'd add;
Aimpoint Scope
Harris Bipod
Extra 20 round Mags
military Drag Bag

here are the specs:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/as...ory_AA9126.pdf
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Old July 27, 2007, 03:05 AM   #11
tINY
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Take a look at the 308 Galil as well. I believe you can put a side-mount scope on it.



-tINY

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Old July 27, 2007, 08:43 AM   #12
Cameron
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A little over 8lbs and effective (with me squeezing the trigger) out to 600 meters...




Cameron
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Old July 27, 2007, 10:20 AM   #13
Willie D
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For a small trade down in accuracy you could trade up in reliability and get a Saiga or Vepr AK variant in .308. Mags are still a bit expensive on those however.
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Old July 27, 2007, 10:53 AM   #14
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You should keep in mind that the Israeli Army stopped using the FAL after the rifle failed to function well in the desert of Egypt. They developed the Galil to replace it. The FAL jammed and failed to function in those conditions. You stated that reliability was your main concern. The m14-M1a rifle from springfield is the best .308 on the planet. Solid,stable, reliable, accurate, what more do you want. Also they cost far less than FAL.
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Old July 27, 2007, 01:17 PM   #15
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A Fal can be have for $700 if you shop around. You'll never find an M14 semi automatic clone for that cheap unless you look outside the US to countries that allow Norinco imports.

In the deserts of Egypt the Galil wasn't all that much more reliable than the Fal is, which works fine for many desert based countries that used them for decades and those working in that theatre. The idea the Fal would quit working in the desert is over exaggerated at best.

One of the best things about the Fal is the adjustable gas valve, that you can set to work at higher pressures when you got alot of dirt build up, that would leave the M14 based rifles blocked. You can also lower the pressure so not to shoot your brass so far.

I personally would go with the DS Arms para with the folding buttstock. Would be good for getting game for the table while helps with some of the weight and length problems.
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Old July 27, 2007, 02:34 PM   #16
Dave R
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A good alternative to the FAL is the PTR-91. Equivalent of the H&K G3. Under $1,000 (under $800?) and within your weight budget. I have a CETME (Century's poor rendition of the G-3) and I love it.

No one has mentioned a .308 AR yet? All the main AR companies have 'em. They'll be in the same price range as the M1A's.
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Old July 27, 2007, 02:52 PM   #17
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I think Rock River Arms (and possibly Sabre Defense) makes an AR varant chambered in .308 I would love to have one myself. Of course they might have the inpengment thingy too, I really don't know.
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Old July 27, 2007, 10:27 PM   #18
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DPMS 308. They can be had in a number of configurations from their Long Range, to basic 16" configurations. 19 round mags are the normal for them. Weight hovers between 7 and 9.5 lbs depending on configuration, and price ranges from $850 to $1,200. DPMS all the way!


http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/308/
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Old July 28, 2007, 06:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
But I don't want a rifle that uses direct impingement though, with the larger round
I think this pretty much discounts any AR variant from the selection, minus the HK 417 which is not available to us lowly civilians.

My vote is for the Springfield M1A Scout Squad.
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Old July 29, 2007, 06:08 AM   #20
jamescrantz
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Is the FAL unreliable?

I understand the FAL was not reliable in dusty/sandy environments like the deserts of Egypt. But I am not really going to be anywhere sandy or dusty. The biggest issue where I live is going to be moisture. Are there any reports of the FAL failing in wet conditions, etc. Or is the only reason people say they aren't reliable because of the Israeli Army's experience during the Six-Day War? That situation alone doesn't seem to warrant calling the rifle unreliable in general...that is a pretty specific (and harsh) set of conditions...

---James
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Old July 29, 2007, 09:31 AM   #21
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Which battle?

Not meaning to be a smart alec
Jeff Cooper wrote at length about the Bolt Scout rifle.His logic is sound.(Rambo is a movie) Weight,ammo supply,etc.Mobility,stealth,etc matter.

But if you just want one,Take your pick.
A Garand is an elegant battle rifle.The M-14 platform Springfield offers is superb.The FAL has proven itself in some very ugly places for a long ,long time.I personally like the flattop AR-10 in free-float trim.
Hits count,and its an excellent platform for optics,it has superb trigger options,and a free-float barrel without any gas system ,stock,etc attachments will deliver reliable accuracy.
All selfloaders have dirt/lubrication limitations.Some troops are dillegent,some are not.For pure autoload function,the AR-18 config,with the bolt carrier on guide rods and everything else clearance is hard to beat.
What you feed them matters.Powder burn curves have to match the function.
For example,some 2520 loads I ran in my FAL ground it to a halt with a nasty,gritty fouling.Varget works good
Like Fords and Chevy's,Blondes or brunettes,there is more going on than which choice.Pick the one you like,give it what it needs,and enjoy.
There is no ultimate,perfect,do everything piece HiBC
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Old July 30, 2007, 12:26 AM   #22
jamescrantz
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Good point about there not being a "one size fits all" rifle HIBC. But if your FAL could handle 2520 rounds without jamming, it sounds pretty good to me. If I'm in the type of situation where I have to fire off 2500 rounds in one sitting, a semi-auto rifle probably isn't going to help me much anyway. I'll probably be wishing at that point that I had a SAW .
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Old July 30, 2007, 02:13 AM   #23
Yithian
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Um, I beieve the 2520 he is speaking of is the powder not number of rounds.
Same goes for the name "Varget".
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Old July 30, 2007, 03:06 AM   #24
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Under 10lbs WITH a loaded 20 rd magazine.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=77025566

$1230.00
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Old July 30, 2007, 07:32 AM   #25
jamescrantz
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LOL, so maybe 2520 rounds without any problems was a bit too good to be true.

By the way, I was looking at the Knight's Armaments SR25 and it is looking pretty good. Any thoughts there? Anybody have one? Kind of stuck between the DS Arms SA58 and the SR25...

--James
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