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Old July 19, 2007, 04:21 PM   #1
ZeroJunk
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California Considering Outlawing Lead

California enviornmentalist are wanting to outlaw lead in all hunting ammo including rifles.The Condors are supposedly getting lead poisoning from animal carcasses.Not a huge deal with shotguns,but I don't know what the rifle bullet solution would be.Some say it is just a step to outlaw hunting.
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Old July 19, 2007, 06:40 PM   #2
davlandrum
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If they outlaw lead, maybe the next step is gunpowder, because it goes bang...

If lead bullets get outlawed, someone will come up with the solution, just like shotgun shells. And they will cost...

I just thought about it and realized there is no lead left in my gut piles, what are they talking about....

Stuff like this makes my head hurt - so illogical, so extremely BS
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Old July 19, 2007, 07:30 PM   #3
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Actually, there is already a solution for this problem. Barnes Bullets X-Bullets.
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Old July 19, 2007, 07:56 PM   #4
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Another reason I won't step in that Liberal state
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Old July 19, 2007, 10:41 PM   #5
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That's why Barnes...

came out with an all copper slug.
Here is Washington, you can't hunt with shotgun, west of Cascades with lead, east no problem.
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Old July 19, 2007, 10:44 PM   #6
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hmm maybe they will let you trade in your lead bullets for some nice steel or tungsten ones.
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Old July 20, 2007, 04:50 AM   #7
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California Assembly members from heavily urbanized districts have been against all hunting for several decades. In contrast, nearly all of northern California has no such nonsense.

Kenya stopped hunting in the late 1970's. The result was an immediate reduction of Wardens and the area became a free-for-all snaring and trapping bonanza for locals. Yet some animals destroyed their own habitat due to overpopulation. Game has suffered to this day.

Eventually this will occur in California. The Do-Gooders will stop hunting with their votes and pens, but nothing will stop the locals from hunting. Certainly not Wardens because they'll be un-employed.

During the height of Soviet power: hunting, trapping, and snaring cont'd behind the Iron Curtain. The Commies could not stop it and neither will the California Assembly.

Look for a veto from Arnold S.

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Old July 20, 2007, 11:04 AM   #8
Art Eatman
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It's purely an anti-hunting deal. No way it can be real, since the deer carcass get hauled home to be butchered and the condors/buzzards/coyotes only get the gutpile to play with. It's very, very rare that any lead could be in the gutpile at all.

But it's California...

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Old July 20, 2007, 12:40 PM   #9
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Oregon has passed some laws due to the bulk of the population being urban (Portland metro and the Eugene area). That is how running dogs for bear and cougar got outlawed. Not sure how the rest of the state can have a say when the population is so out of balance. Laws were against the advice of state F&W biologists - but what do they know...
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Old July 20, 2007, 01:19 PM   #10
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Looks like they would figure out, that voteing on things like hunting, should be done by county rather than state wide. We have the same problem here in Oklahoma. 90% of the population is living in 2 or 3 cities, and for the most part don't understand hunting. When elections are held, the rest of us just have to live with whatever the urbanites decide is best.
I live in a 5 county area where 90% of the land is farm land and wilderness and only 80,00 people for population. Most everyone hunts and fishes in these 5 counties, but we are all having to live with laws that the people in OKC and Tulsa vote for( No I'm not knocking my fellow Oklahomans)

Just seems like there should be a better way.
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Old July 20, 2007, 04:54 PM   #11
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Buy stock in tungsten & bismuth companies, folks!

I'm for protecting the environment as much or more than the next guy, and if lead's a problem, it's a problem which needs to be dealt with. But it seems to me at first glance that the appropriate solution may not be to ban lead, but rather to impose a special tax on any ammo which uses lead (rather than copper, nickel, tungsten, etc., only), then place directly into a rainy day fund, to first STUDY the issue to see if a ban is warranted or not (to eliminate junk science), or if use of the fund to do certain aquatic cleanup projects (and similar) on as as-needed basis is a better solution. If the studies conclude there is no problem, then nix the tax.
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Old July 22, 2007, 09:16 AM   #12
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Washington.

Quote:
Here is Washington, you can't hunt with shotgun, west of Cascades with lead, east no problem.
+1
Wish they would split the stupid state in half and have two, like the Carolinas or Dakotas.

Quote:
During the height of Soviet power: hunting, trapping, and snaring cont'd behind the Iron Curtain. The Commies could not stop it and neither will the California Assembly.
Too bad Cali can't take a hint. If the real commies couldn't do it, the phoney wanna-be's don't stand a chance.
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Old July 22, 2007, 10:41 AM   #13
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38splfan

Too bad Cali can't take a hint. If the real commies couldn't do it, the phoney wanna-be's don't stand a chance.

Hmmm, I might have to save that one. What sounds better, Wanna-be Comie or Comie wanna-be?
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Old July 22, 2007, 12:56 PM   #14
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See, this is the problem with giving the government so much power. We think they are going to use it for good (because I'm sure, what, 6 kids got lead poisoning from eating paint chips) and then they turn around and use it against us.
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Old July 24, 2007, 07:04 PM   #15
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Is there any way to get Kalifornistan booted from the Union? I'd be whole heartidly for it
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Old July 24, 2007, 09:35 PM   #16
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The condor excuse is a load of crap. If the birds were to eat 100 lead slugs a day it would not hurt them because it is not in a digestible form, it would just pass through. Lead has to be dissolved in water before it can do any harm and it has to be in huge amounts. People need to get educated before they get excited. Everyone in the state would have to shoot 1000 rounds a day for years before there would ever be any evidence if ground water contamination.

Some Kalifornians need to get with the program.
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Old July 24, 2007, 11:19 PM   #17
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Lead bullets and the condor are just like the spotted owl, pigmy owl, etc. - a way for activists to get what they want under the guise of protecting a vanishing species.
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Old July 25, 2007, 04:25 PM   #18
roy reali
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YUP!

California laws ain't so bad!
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Old July 25, 2007, 04:39 PM   #19
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yes they are bad

they think they rule the union in CA thats why i have to drive an emissions friendly truck.
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Old July 29, 2007, 01:25 PM   #20
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"The condor excuse is a load of crap. If the birds were to eat 100 lead slugs a day it would not hurt them because it is not in a digestible form, it would just pass through."

I believe this may be in error. With most creatures, I would agree with you, but the Condors, like other bird holds their food in the crop as an aid to digestion. I think that they found the lead in the crops of the dead Condors, just like the lead they found in the crops of, IIRC, six dead loons which brought about the lead shot ban for migratory waterfowl.
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Old August 8, 2007, 02:54 PM   #21
KEN K
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lead is poison

You know lead is poisonous to wildlife, I know from first hand experiance, in fact every dear I ever ate had died from lead poisoning. Sounds like the can't get our guns so they're going for the ammo. The X bullet is a good alturnative all copper but I don't know were to get it for reloading.
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Old August 9, 2007, 04:23 PM   #22
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I doubt that they will make hunting illegal. There is too much revenue coming in from licences, stamps and tags. And as was mentioned before hunting will still continue by locals and carrying capacities will be exceeded.
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Old August 9, 2007, 06:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Lead has to be dissolved in water before it can do any harm and it has to be in huge amounts. People need to get educated before they get excited
Possibly, but I know of no better way to dissolve it than to grind it up and soak it in acid, like in something's stomach.

We could try an experiment. Have your blood lead level tested. Swallow a 30 cal bullet. Two days later, get your blood lead level tested again.

But you're right, people need to get educated. Facts, not hearsay.
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Old August 9, 2007, 06:57 PM   #24
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You can do a Google on "California Condor Lead" and there are multiple sources indicating that the condors do have lead poisoning and that it is reasonable to assume some of it is coming from shot and bullets.I don't see that it would be a big inconvenience to use solid copper bullets and lead free shot.Might be better to do that preemptive than have some total anti-hunting crusade activated by it.
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Old August 9, 2007, 09:42 PM   #25
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Hmmm, looks like we need to legalize steel core bullets again. "It's for the environment."
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