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Old July 31, 2011, 08:28 PM   #1
JACK308
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45acp,44 mnag penertration qustion

This is something I don't understand 100% a .45acp is not know for deep penertration but with a 230gr. hornady xtp/xtp their catalog says deep,terminal penetration whats say 4.5 grains of titegroup how can that be with so little powder to power the bullet? Now with a 44 mag you would get more penertation with alot more powder and the same bullet.....right?
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Old July 31, 2011, 08:44 PM   #2
T. O'Heir
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Hornady talks about controlled expansion for either calibre, nothing about penetration. In any case, comparing a .44 Mag to a .45 ACP is an apples and oranges thing. A 225 grain .44 Titegroup load is moving a lot faster than any 230 grain .45 too.
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Old July 31, 2011, 09:06 PM   #3
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The 45ACP was envisioned to give ~45 Colt performance out of an automatic pistol using a shortened case & (then) modern smokeless powder. "Penetration" notwithstanding, the 45 Colt using a heavy, relatively slow solid round-nose bullet was an absolutely-proven man-killer.

That was its job.
Period.

The 44 Magnum is an entirely different cartridge, for entirely different purposes, using an entirely different case, entirely different powders, designed to entirely different specs w/ an entirely different bullet series.

It's that apples & oranges comparison mentioned above.

At .44 -.45 diameter, bullet penetration is a function of bullet speed, mass, materials, frontal/flat step edge area, specific bullet expansion/fragmentation design, etc, etc. They ALL interact. More important, penetration is not nearly as critical factor as the bullet's ability to DUMP all its energy in the vital areas, smash bone, disrupt cardiovascular/CNS functions and not waste it by over-penetration into either non-vital areas or out into thin air (or worse -- innocents).

So the 45ACP (which will penetrate right through you w/ a 230gr FMJ) will also stop 12-15" in using hydroshok bullet designs driven at hydroshok velocities. The 44 Mag can be driven much faster, to penetrate much farther, and do much more damage on heavier/thicker-skinned animals than man.

But if I'm going into combat against men, I want the 45 Automatic Colt Pistol and its accompanying cartridge.

Guns are tools.
You pick the tool by the job.

Last edited by mehavey; August 1, 2011 at 08:47 AM.
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Old July 31, 2011, 09:34 PM   #4
JACK308
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I thought more powder = deeper penetration.

yeah the .45acp is a man killer
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Old July 31, 2011, 09:36 PM   #5
Loader9
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If yer ever attacked by the gelatin monsters, this is how the bullet will perform:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/.44%20Magnum.html
http://www.brassfetcher.com/45ACP.html

I've not seen this to be accurate in a self defense scenario. Depending on the clothing the victim was wearing will determine bullet performance. Even the XTP and Gold Dots do absolutely nothing on a denim jacket but punch a hole....which is usually good enough to put the prep down anyway. As we say, keep it between the nipples and the party is over.
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Old July 31, 2011, 09:49 PM   #6
mehavey
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Quote:
I thought more powder = deeper penetration.
It depends entirely on the bullet's design for specific performance against specific materials at specific velocities. Modern weapons/cartridges are literally an engineering system of systems to this end. Push things beyond design and those things come unglued.

EX:
A 22 Long Rifle drundling along at 1,000 fps will get far deeper penetration with its 40gr bullet than a 220 Swift with its 40-grainer ....doing 4,200.

( I gare-on-tee. )
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Old August 1, 2011, 05:30 AM   #7
WESHOOT2
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There are many factors involved: bullet material and construction, diameter, sectional density, impact velocity, impact angle, rate of spin, and more.
More.....
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Old August 1, 2011, 08:54 AM   #8
JACK308
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I think I need to research this.
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Old August 1, 2011, 09:05 AM   #9
mehavey
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If you want a classic example of the systems aspect of penetration, shoot a common target arrow out of a common 60# hunting bow into a construction sandbag.

The arrow will penetrate all the way through to the point that fully half the arrow comes out of the sandbag's other side.

Fire a a 44Mag (or even a 30-06) into that same sandbag and it goes nowhere.
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Old August 1, 2011, 10:14 AM   #10
Edward429451
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It has to do with momentum. a 230 gr 45 at 850 fps will penetrate so far, and a 44 mag 245 gr at 1250 fps will penetrate farther. Or if you want to compare apples and apples look at a 230 gr 45 WinMag doing 1200 fps.

You just need to shoot more with the respective calibers to learn the limitations of them. I stuck a lot of 45's in the front part of bowling pins. That really brought me back to earth about the 45acp.
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Old August 1, 2011, 10:41 AM   #11
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If you reduce case capacity, the same amount of powder will give more pressure and velocity (and maybe penetration depending on a lot of things). Even deep seating a bullet will measurably change the pressure in a handgun round.

So comparing a short auto case to a long revolver case is not going to tell you much.
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Old August 1, 2011, 11:51 AM   #12
JACK308
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yeah I use to shoot a 357 mag and 45acp at bowling pin that was fun from what I remember the 45 or 357 never made it though.
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Old August 1, 2011, 01:53 PM   #13
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All things being equal (which they are not, especially in this case), a FMJ bullet will outpenetrate a HP pretty much every time. HP are made to stop and deliver all of their energy inside the target while FMJ are designed to keep on going, and slower bullets generally outpenetrate faster bullets of the same size, weight and construction. If you don't believe this, try it. Of course, the two bullets the OP is asking about are not the same, but my money would be on the FMJ 45ACP to outpenetrate the HP 44 Mag.
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