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Old October 1, 2007, 08:30 PM   #76
Erik
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"Do you carry a knife? Just wondering if many folks carry a knife as a secondary defense weapon."

Usually two. One dedicated for strong-side in-fight access and one dedicated to either hand in-fight access. Always the strong-side one.
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Old October 4, 2007, 10:36 AM   #77
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every body bleeds in a knife fight. That's what I have found to be the case. If your in that type of situation then run. If he gives chase then pull out your gun and deal with it another way. I do carry a knife thou.. a small spyderco that has a blade length of about 1 1/4 inches. just to open boxes or cut a rope.
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Old October 4, 2007, 10:46 AM   #78
The Tourist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddskehan
every body bleeds in a knife fight.
I'm not sure this is true. It comes mostly from the emperical observation of LEOs and ER personnel treating drunks after bar time.

I don't drink, and I'm safe in bed at bar time. If I have to use a knife, it's going to be a quick, decisive, deep and thorough incision to protect my otherwise worthless hide.

I don't fight for honor, bragging rights or a scalp count. I just don't like to get knocked around. I never did.
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Old October 4, 2007, 10:32 PM   #79
Murdoch
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CRKT M16Z, Spyderco Rescue Jr., Benchmade Mini Ambush, CRKT 14K Summit are my main EDC blades.

Utilitarian, good in a pinch if I ever need them.
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Old October 5, 2007, 12:47 AM   #80
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Quote:
If I have to use a knife, it's going to be a quick, decisive, deep and thorough incision to protect my otherwise worthless hide.
It's hard to make a quick, decisive, deep and thorough incision without getting cut yourself. In fact, if the other guy is any good at all, it's impossible.

It's possible to cut someone without getting cut, but generally only on the hands, arms and head (people tend to lean forward at the waist).

I usually have a knife or two on me. Here's the one I ALWAYS carry, but I usually have something larger tucked away as well.
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Old October 5, 2007, 01:04 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by JohnKSa
Here's the one I ALWAYS carry
Who did your edge?
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Old October 5, 2007, 11:22 AM   #82
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Here's the thing...I think some people are thinking "knife in defensive situation" and some are thinking "knife fight!"

If a guy has a knife, I'd almost rather go barehanded, to better block and try to control his weapon, though a knife might deter an unarmed assailant. If you're outnumbered or otherwise justified in potentially lethal force, a knife might save your life. But you have to know what you're doing. If you start flailing around, you're not going to do much damage, and probably just get yourself hurt or killed. Especially with the folders most of us will be carrying. I'm not talking about bowies and military knives here.

A knife is the same as a gun in that regard...you pull it out, you better be prepared to use it, and to use it decisively. Face, neck, vitals. Arms and legs will hurt, but not stop a determined or drugged attacker.

Don't get me wrong, I carry a knife most every day. But I carry it as a tool first, defensive weapon second. I often forget I even have it when I get in a situation where I feel threatened.

Oh, and +1 on the above...great edge on the spydie.
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Old October 5, 2007, 11:35 AM   #83
The Tourist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murdoch
If a guy has a knife, I'd almost rather go barehanded
I urge all muggers in the Madison area to do precisely that.

One of the reasons I polish jackknives to mirror finishes using Japanese waterstones is that any common knife might have to be pressed into service for defense. As you know, Wisconsin has no legal provision for CCW.

As many will verify, any fight in the real world is sloppy at best. There is no well choreographed exchange as in a Bruce Lee movie. There's pushing and shoving, childish kicks and confusion.

A knife with a mirror finished edge is a problem from two standpoints.

First, you'd better be very good at an offense utilizing blocks, counter-attacks and grappling away weapons. Failure means you get your tendons cut down to the bone. Ask my hunting clients about field dressing deer.

Secondly, even your defensive wounds will be life threatening. There is a good reason why "death by a 1,000 cuts" is an apt ideology. Your hands and wrists cannot sustain numerous slices for very long before a large arteries are sliced open.

This kind of knife truly levels the playing field. Now granted, being in yellow is always a sound strategy for any aspect of modern life. However, even a trained figher had better be careful if I clamp onto him and start 'flailing' away with a mirror finished chisel grind knife.
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Old October 5, 2007, 11:55 AM   #84
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Valid point. I guess I have a different though on the whole thing. It simply depends on the situation. If I am pulling a knife on someone, it is because I believe my life is in danger, and I am prepared to do whatever I need to to prevent that threat. Be that using a blade, or breaking his knee, it's hard to say "in this situation I'd do this" (which I guess I sort of did above)...

I guess all I'm trying to say is this...the spydie in your pocket does not make you invincible, any more than a gun. You have to know what you're doing. Same with hand-to hand. Whatever you have and are good at, use it if you have to.
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Old October 5, 2007, 12:00 PM   #85
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Don't ever bring a knife to a gun fight...
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Old October 5, 2007, 12:03 PM   #86
The Tourist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murdoch
the spydie in your pocket does not make you invincible
That's why I stack the deck.

There's not much, including some protective vests, that can withstand a razor blade. The trick in this equation is "perfecting" the edge.

First, the bevel must be 'repaired.' Not only must chips and grinding errors be eliminated, but the bevel must be trued front to back, and then left to right. It must have an equal width.

Then you buff with increasingly finer and finer grades of waterstones, and finish the polishing with paste and papers--usually in the 4000 grit range. The final result must appear like a flawless chrome bumper.

This kind of knife ain't your daddy's Barlow. Several of my clients carry two knives, one of them kept in pristine condition "just in case."

The one thing I've learned is that being good in martial arts doesn't make you invincible, either. I just give my clients better tools--and I tell them to stay out of saloons.
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Old October 5, 2007, 12:08 PM   #87
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Quote:
The one thing I've learned is that being good in martial arts doesn't make you invincible, either. I just give my clients better tools--and I tell them to stay out of saloons.
Agreed. To me, rule #1 is stay away from "bad places." If I feel like I "need" a weapon to go somewhere, I try not to go.

Rule #2 is to never underestimate an attacker, and to give it all you have in a life or death situation.

Rule #3 is to always be better armed that the other guy
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Old October 5, 2007, 12:14 PM   #88
The Tourist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murdoch
always be better armed that the other guy
...yes, it is a tidy little retirement business...

However, I feel about knives like I feel about ABS. I don't want to be in the midst of a crash to realize my brake fluid is low.

I happen to be one of those "knives are tools" guys in my philosophy. I have one of the best knives ever made, the Emerson HD-7. I cut UPS boxes, blue painters tape and thread. You could make a very good case in opining that I carry too much knife.

However, there might be a time when I have to slice a radiator hose, or cut someone's shirt from spinning machinery.

And sadly, the world is full of predators.
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Old October 5, 2007, 12:57 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tourist
Who did your edge?
I did. I grind the bevel with a coarse stone, take out the scratches with the Spyderco "Fine" bench stone and then finish/polish it with a Spyderco "Ultrafine" ceramic bench stone.

So far I've been doing it freehand, but I'm looking at getting a sharpening guide to try out.
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Old October 6, 2007, 10:24 PM   #90
Murdoch
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Fine Job on the edge, John. And Tourist, I do like those emersons...most are a little big for pocket carry for me, but man do they make a nice blade.
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Old October 6, 2007, 10:55 PM   #91
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Quote:
Fine Job on the edge, John.
Thanks! It's sharper than it looks.
Quote:
...most are a little big for pocket carry for me...
It's all a state of mind.

Here's what I used to carry (with the Worker for size reference).


I've moved down slightly in blade size these days from the Voyager XL, but only by about half an inch.
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Old October 7, 2007, 01:07 AM   #92
The Tourist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murdoch
Fine Job on the edge, John.
Yes, he did do a great job, you beat me to it.

If you'll also notice, he took care to provide the best edge possible. This makes knives useful, and not many either know or take the time to better the tools they carry.
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Old October 7, 2007, 08:04 AM   #93
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How does one unsubscribe from this post?
Its like the energizer bunny.
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Old October 7, 2007, 09:52 AM   #94
Mainah
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I just got a Gatco Edgemate system. Anyone have any experience with these?
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Old October 7, 2007, 10:31 AM   #95
Splat!!
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My .02 cents.............keep a folder for the tool, any size fixed blade for defense......
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Old October 7, 2007, 11:31 AM   #96
The Tourist
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Originally Posted by Wrascal
How does one unsubscribe from this post? Its like the energizer bunny.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but to many of us, this is the realistic condition of readiness, which also encompasses self defense.

As I have stated, I have no CCW privileges/rights in Wisconsin. Unless I break the law (and that would be wrong), I am limited to contact weapons and pepper spray.

And as another aspect of the real world, when I work it's usually within the building of a client. In the Peoples' Republik of Madison that means liberals. Even if I had a CCW license I might be restricted due to sign posting. And, of course, losing that client.

And while I am a very serious firearms collector and reloader, many like me have to endure the never-ending amateurish jokes (and insults) about taking a knife to a gunfight.

One of the great places for political debates is at the locker room at my health club. And we discuss many of the same concerns there that we do at TFL. Believe it or not, not all Democrats belittle firearms or self defense.

When the issue of martial arts and "knive/gunfight" got tossed around, I defended our rights and even mentioned the 21-foot-rule. Surprisingly, many were informed.

One of the members who works out with me is a knowledgeable martial arts practitioner. We've discussed bare-handed confrontations on several occasions. And we've also discussed contact weapons.

He made this comment, "...that doesn't apply to you, Chico, you're a professional sharpener and you've been knocked around a few times..."

One of the deciding factors (and I agree) is training and focus. There are several men in their sixties that I still give a wide berth. They're strong, they're trained and they are dangerous.

Perhaps a serious discussion of contract weapons (or simple knives as tools) might be better served in a different segment of this forum--that's for the mods to decide. But while people with contact weapons remain threats, good guys like us must apply our knowledge to defense with firearms and other martial diciplines.
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Old October 7, 2007, 04:55 PM   #97
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I Have A Ka-Bar d2 but i dont carry it.. however i do carry my cold steel arc-angel
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Old October 7, 2007, 05:22 PM   #98
Wrascal
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Hey Mr T. (I like that)

I'm not against you or knives as I also carry one (actually two, as I stated months ago). Its just that I continue to get emails on this subject - after three months, they're all pretty much the same. That says alot about the importance of this subject to people.

I just don't wish to be notified of every comment anymore, hence my desire to unsubscribe.

Enjoy your Columbus Day!
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Old October 7, 2007, 09:10 PM   #99
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Boker

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Old October 7, 2007, 09:29 PM   #100
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Quote:
desire to unsubscribe
Click on "User CP" at the upper right hand side of the screen. There should be a "List Subscriptions" option somewhere about halfway down the right side of the screen. Click on that and there should be an option to unsubscribe from any of your subscribed threads.
Quote:
He made this comment, "...that doesn't apply to you, Chico, you're a professional sharpener and you've been knocked around a few times..."
Interesting comment, and one I agree with. Not because I know you, but because I know that a truly sharp knife in the hands of someone who has a reasonable idea how to use it can be a formidable weapon.
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