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Old May 21, 2007, 02:10 PM   #1
Snake River Jake
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Where did Colt Blackpowder Arms company go?

Did the company who was making the Colt Signature Series blackpowder revolvers go out of business?
I think the name really was Colt Blackpowder Arms Company of Brooklyn New York, over on 8th Street ...
Seems like they went out of business a couple of years ago?
Wonder if the blackpowder Signature Series they made will now go up in value?

Last edited by Snake River Jake; May 21, 2007 at 02:17 PM. Reason: found answer
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Old May 21, 2007, 02:44 PM   #2
Old Dragoon
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Not been to town lately?? Just kidding.

From the Bluebook of Modern Blackpowder Arms.

COLT BLACKPOWDER ARMS CO. Previous manufacturer and retailer of 3rd Generation Colt Black Powder pistols and muskets located in Brooklyn, NY 1994-2002.
All 3rd Generation Colt blackpowder models are also referred to as Signature Series Models.
A reprise of the original Colt Blackpowder line, along with historic models not offered in the 2nd Generation, and a new series of Commemoratives, each model (with the exception of the Heirloom Tiffany 1860 Army and 1842 Texas Paterson) bears the Sam Colt signature on the backstrap. These 3rd Generation models were manufactured under an authorized licensing agreement with Colt Firearms by Colt Blackpowder Arms Company – the same company (and many of the same craftsmen) responsible for the 2nd Generation Colt revolvers. Although parts for the Signature Series were cast in Italy, they were fully assembled and hand finished in the United States using the proprietary Colt formulas for bluing and color case hardening.
Colt Blackpowder Arms Company Signature Series revolvers are regarded as authentic Colt pistols. The 3rd Generation models have original Colt markings, including the barrel address and serial number stampings. There are no foreign proof marks on these authentic Colt models.
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Old May 22, 2007, 10:12 AM   #3
Snake River Jake
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Rats.

They did make some really fine C&B arms; it's a shame they are defunct.
I hear the 2nd Generations ("black box"), from back in the 80's, will letter as genuine Colt from the factory as they were distributed from there after final inspection?
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Old May 22, 2007, 12:41 PM   #4
Old Dragoon
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Second Gen.s were made at Colt factory. first ones,the "C" series and Commeratives, 1971-1974 Castings were supplied by Val Forgett, Navy Arms (Uberti castings), but everything else was made and finished at Colt.

Second ones,The "F" series and Commeratives)1975-1978 Lou Imperato furnished the castings(Uberti) and built the "F" series in the old Iver Johnson factory but internals and screws and pins were made in USA. Guns were finished at IJ factory and QC'd by Colt.

Second and third Gens are considered authentic Colts.
I too have heard that 2 Gen.s will letter. Plan to call and confrm that soon.

I feel that the quality of the 2nd Gen is better than the quality of the 3rd Gen. but that is my personal opinion. Both stand above the Uberti and Pietta of the time.
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Old May 31, 2007, 09:52 PM   #5
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2nd's will letter, 3rds will not

I remember a notice in the back of a Guns & Ammo Magazine (Dec. '94) shortly after the eruption of the Third Series entitled, "Colts In Name Only." Seems the folks at Colt Blackpowder Arms had accidentally photocopied the entire 2nd Generation instruction manual, including the warranty section, and folks were returning broken 3rd Gen. guns back to Colt for repair. Colt had to put out press releases announcing that the Signature Series guns were not thiers, and would not letter from the factory.

Last edited by Griswold; June 1, 2007 at 09:00 PM.
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Old April 8, 2008, 12:22 PM   #6
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Second Gen. BP Colt revolvers.

I reciently bought a new in the box second gen. Colt Navy. The pistol came in the origonal black box with all the instructions etc. It has is the square back trigger guard, and the back strap' and trigger guard is silver plated. This revolver has not been fired, and the box is in good condition. The ser. # is 471x. I would like to find out more about this series, but can not find out about any collectors groups, or forums pretaining to them. It seems like that when I started collecting the Colt replica pistols, there was a Colt's Com. Gun Collectors association, but cant find anything about them. Can any one help me with this matter?
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Old April 8, 2008, 07:20 PM   #7
Fingers McGee
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Howdy all,

All 2nd Generation Colt BP revolvers were inspected, marketed, sold, and warranted by Colt and will letter. I have a 2nd Gen 1861 Navy with a Colt letter & Greg Martin Auctions recently auction half dozen or so with letters.
2nd Gens were made from 1971 through 1982. C (three different boxes)series production was from 1971 through 1977 and F (Black Box) series from 1977 through 1982.

Signature Series Colt Blackpowder revolvers are not Colts and will not letter. Sig Series were made from 1996 through 2002. Some people - Including the Blue Book publishers - may consider tham as being Colts - but Colt doesnt.

There is not a 2nd Gen or Sig series group that I know of with the excepton of the Colt Collectors Society (which I have yet to join). They're a group for all Colt products not just 2nd Gens.

For a good ref on the 2nd Gens, get a copy of "Percussion Colt Revolvers - The Second Generation - Collectors Handbook and Price Guide #3" by Dennis Russell. Also Colt Blackpowder Reproductions & Replicas - A Collectors and Shooters Guide" by Dennis Adler is a good reference for 2nd Gen and Sig Series guns.

Chubbo - Your 'Black Box' Colt is a rare one. It's a first year, 1971 manufacture and is one of about only 998 that were sold in the old SAA black flip top box. That box alone is worth a $150 premium to the value of the gun. If the gun is unfired 100% condition, it's worth $650 plus the black box premium making an $800 value. There were approximately 25000 51 Navies made in the C and F series - not including the 10,000 Grant & Lee sets or the custom sets.

After the black flip top box, C series 51 Navies came in a 2 toned brown flip top box til 1976, then they came in a styrofoam clam shell with a woodgrained sleeve till the F series guns camo out.

Hope this helps
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Old April 9, 2008, 10:40 AM   #8
Snake River Jake
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I've some Signature Series I was able to get lettered with Colt ... they must have stopped the practice.
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Old April 9, 2008, 11:12 AM   #9
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Colt Info.

Hi, Fingers:
I shure appreciate the info. on my new Colt addition. I am in Florida for the winter, and all my books are in Ohio. I have the book by Denis Alder, and a book by R. L. Wilson, that has a little on the BP Colts. The other book by Dennis Russell sounds interesting, and I will try to acquire one. I use the great pictures in the one by Willson, to build origonal style presintation cases.
I would like to post a picture of this new to me, Colt Navy, but something has happened to my ability to host pictures at Hunt101, and others, so I can not post one of this Navy.
One could get themselves in trouble collecting these Colts, as it is getting cost prohibitive for an old retired poop like me.
Thanks.
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Old April 9, 2008, 11:53 AM   #10
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Books

Hi, Fingers:
I have just checked with all the on line book stores, and can't find a thing on that book that you told me about, Precussion Colt Revolvers by Dennis Russell. Do you suppose it is out of print, or, just politically incorrect? It sounds like a very informative book. Any idea where I could find one?
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Old April 9, 2008, 12:22 PM   #11
Fingers McGee
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Chubbo,

Sent you an email. It's out of print but available from BSG Books. I've got the Wilson book also, and there is some good info in the Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms. The 3rd and 4th editions have more background info and articles than the 5th edition does though.

I can identify with the old retired poop and cost of the 2nd Gens. I'm retired Civil Service and started collecting them about 5 years ago. I've got 23 of em right now and always looking for more - at a reasonable price.
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Old April 30, 2008, 05:04 PM   #12
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Colt Second Generation Percussion Revolver Book

Hello Chubbo and Fingers McGee,

I'm new to this forum. While reviewing this thread, I noticed with interest your comments regarding Dennis Russell's book "Percussion Colt Revolvers - The Second Generation - Collector's Handbook & Price Guide. I just e-mailed contact information to you regarding where the revised 4th edition of this book may be purchased.

I hope this is helpful.
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Old April 30, 2008, 11:43 PM   #13
Fingers McGee
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Thanks Chain Fire. Are you in any way associated with the book, author or publisher?
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Old May 1, 2008, 07:55 AM   #14
Chain-Fire
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Colt Second Generation Percussion Revolver Book

Actually, I’m the author and publisher. I know, it’s an interesting combination. But it keeps me busy and out of trouble.
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Old May 1, 2008, 09:28 PM   #15
Snake River Jake
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Book info please

Could you please send me the contact information for the Chainfire Book please? Tanks!
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Old May 2, 2008, 12:04 PM   #16
Fingers McGee
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It can be purchased from Jared Press. Contact information is as follows:

Jared Press
4401 Shallowford Road
Suite 162 – 220
Roswell, Georgia 30075

The price of the book is $24.95 plus $5.00 for shipping, handling and insurance – Total $29.95
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Old May 3, 2008, 03:18 AM   #17
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A local gunshop has several fancy Colts, a "Heritage Series" and 1 named the "Cochise" (a commemorative I guess). One's mostly all bright gold & silver, and IIRC their costs were $1400 and the other was at least $3000. Very flashy guns.
Does anyone know which generation the "Heritage Series" is?
Maybe I should bring a camera along and take some pictures.
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Old May 3, 2008, 03:36 PM   #18
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Articap. The Heritage Walker cased set w/signed & serial numbered book, is a 2nd Gen that was made in 1980-81. The 5th ed. (2007) Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms lists it at $1100.00 NIB. There are a number of them on the gun auction sites for less; although there is one listed with all the original packaging and shipping boxes for $1500.00. There were 1853 of the Heritage Commemoratives made.

The Cochise Commemorative 3rd Model Dragoon is a Signature Series gun made somewhere between 1997 and 2002. Blue Book lists it at $995.00 NIB. Cochise models show up on the auction sites occasionally for around that price. I don't know how many of them were actually made.

I was just looking at the Forum list and noticed that this thread has had over 1000 views. Way more than any other - except the stickey'd one and the one on "Opinion: Traditions 1851 Navy in .44 cal" - Looks like a lot of interest in Colt BP arms.
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Old May 3, 2008, 08:44 PM   #19
Chain-Fire
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Hello Arcticap. It would be helpful to know the actual model of the two revolvers in question. Of course it seems pretty clear that the Cochise is a Third Model Dragoon. This is a Colt Third Generation (Signature Series) model. The final manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) in 2002 for this model was $1,295.00. It's flashy, but to date there's not a lot of collector activity on this one. Fingers McGee is right on the money for this model at about $1,000.00 although most I've seen went for less. The planned production for this model was 500 units. But there is no guarantee that many were actually produced. Its a travesty, but the records for third generation models are an absolute mess.

Regarding the "Heritage" Model, the presumption is that it is the Heritage Commemorative Walker. If this is the model you are looking at, it is a Colt Second Generation Model with a final MSRP of $1,475.00 in the early 1980's. Again, this model has very little collector interest. Thus, the typical current selling price is around $1,100.00 or less if it is New In Box - nowhere near the original MSRP.

Beware - dealers often confuse or misrepresent the word "Heritage." I have seen this word incorrectly applied to cased 1 of 500 Model 1860 Army, 1862 Pocket Navy, 1862 Pocket Police and Baby Dragoon Sets. But most frequently, I have seen the word "Heritage" used to describe the 1860 Army Heirloom Edition. If you have found one of these models, it is a rare bird indeed. It has a Tiffany style grip with 24kt. gold plated cylinder, nipples, hammer, trigger and loading lever assembly. It also has a sterling silver plated frame, barrel, wedge, trigger guard, screws and grip. It is embellished with Nimschke style engraving with a punch dot background that covers the barrel, frame, cylinder, trigger guard and loading lever. This is a Colt Third Generation model produced in very limited quantities from 1998 to 2002 with a final MSRP of $6,000.00. In recent years, I have seen this model sell in New In Box condition for as little as $2,500.00 and as much as $5,000.00.

I hope this information is helpful.
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Old May 4, 2008, 06:16 PM   #20
Snake River Jake
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There does seem to be lots of interest in the Colt BP irons. I know they draw a small crowd when they make a trip to the range to go "Kaaaaa-BOOOM!".
Always trying to stir up new recruits to "The Dark Side".
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Old May 11, 2008, 05:37 PM   #21
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Uberty had a hand in the Mfgr I suspect because when I bought my first Army San Marco back in the seventies, some of the Uberty Ccp and Ball pistols had the Colt Emblem stamped on them. They were Italian all the way. I wish mine had it. Some of my friends bought them.
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Old December 1, 2008, 02:09 AM   #22
Snake River Jake
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Anybody else get Signature Series lettered by Colt?

I was able to get three Signature Series lettered by Colt many years ago and was wondering if any body else did or am I just lucky?
I emailed one to Dennis Adler, who published an excellent book by the by that everyone who is into these arms should think about purchasing (shameless plug for Dennis.)
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Old December 1, 2008, 10:35 AM   #23
Mark Milton
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Over the years I have seen more than one magazin article and book chapter discuss those guns.
Most agreed they were made by Uberti and marketed by Colt. Some of the earlier ones may have been finished and fitted by Colt using Uberti parts.
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Old December 1, 2008, 11:56 AM   #24
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Dennis Adler needs more shameless plugs. He's written some great books on Colt's and doesn't get the attention he deserves.
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Old December 1, 2008, 06:28 PM   #25
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You can say that again. I have two of his books and read them about twice a year. I understand he used to write books on automobiles before he got interested in black powder and old west guns.
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