The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 29, 2007, 09:12 AM   #1
PeteQuad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 9, 2007
Posts: 198
Case lube?

I recently ordered a bunch of stuff to begin handloading. Yesterday I was reading through the giant midway catalog and saw a bunch of items relating to case lubing. Is this something that is important to do? If so, what kind/method is good to use? I saw sprays and powders, etc.

I will be reloading .38spl/.44sp/.44mag for now.
PeteQuad is offline  
Old April 29, 2007, 09:40 AM   #2
Shane Tuttle
Staff
 
Join Date: November 28, 2005
Location: Blue Grass, IA
Posts: 8,560
Well Pete, I don't think I have the best answer for you. But, here goes...

After the tumbling process, I use Lee's case lube on the outside applying it by hand. On the inside, I use Midway's little blue box that holds a bunch of nylon bristles for you. There's a little tray that you put fine talc powder in. You dip the neck of the case in it and then run the case down and up once on the correct size brush. This lubes the inside of the neck for smooth sizing operation.

I think it's absolutely essential to lube your cases. On the same token, don't over lube, either. If you have too much on the shoulder and go to size, you can damage your brass.

Others have used Imperial wax which I'd like to find and try out...
__________________
If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language.

Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
Shane Tuttle is offline  
Old April 29, 2007, 09:45 AM   #3
intruder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2006
Location: pa
Posts: 128
Use carbide dies for resizing they don't require lube. Just make sure you do not have them contact the shell holder. Carbide is brittle and you can crack the die. If you must use lube use the spray on type it's not has messy as a lube pad.
intruder is offline  
Old April 29, 2007, 09:46 AM   #4
Gbro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,056
Most handgun reloading is done with carbide dies, therefore no lube is needed.
We lube rifle brass, and there are several kinds like you listed.
Sprays work well as lot of poster attest to in there post, I have had no luck in using sprays.
Heavy lubes like the RCBS case lube is applied by rolling the brass on a lube pad, like an ink pad and work well but is messy, and if not done carefully will leave cases dented, or if under lubed, stuck.
I use the lee past and apply it with some on my finger and it works for me.
You may have to try different methods if you need to lube.
There is much info in these forums that is available through the search features.
Hope this helps
__________________
Gbro
CGVS
For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18
Gbro is offline  
Old April 29, 2007, 11:36 AM   #5
PeteQuad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 9, 2007
Posts: 198
Thanks, I've been searching but apparently case and lube are not the correct key words

So, I got the Lee dies with the Lee turret press - I believe those are carbide, so I should be ok. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, you all seem to be saying that carbide dies don't require lubing; but is it easier or something if you do lube? I mean, I'm willing to do it if there is some benefit or if it is pretty easy to do.
PeteQuad is offline  
Old April 29, 2007, 11:56 AM   #6
mc223
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2007
Location: n/w Wisconsin
Posts: 365
With carbide dies, no lube is required for straight walled cases. The cases must be clean. However lube is a good practice and will make loading go a bit smoother.
I use a homemade version of the Dillon spray lube made with alcohol and lanolin. I have also used Hornady One Shot with good results. Then there is Imperial Sizing Die Wax.
mc223 is offline  
Old April 29, 2007, 12:27 PM   #7
Shoney
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2002
Location: Transplanted from Montana
Posts: 2,311
PeteQuad
You did not mention the cartridges you will be loading.

To clarify what has been already mentioned:

All cases must be cleaned before running them thru a die. The method of cleaning is generally determined by the numbers you are reloading. Less than 500 pr year can be easily cleaned by hand. Loading 500 or more per month will best be done with a tumbler.

Straight wall cases, which are sized in carbide dies, require no lube.

All bottleneck cases must be lubed before resizing, regardless if they are pistol or rifle; and regardless if they are used in carbide or regular dies.

Since I started loading in 1960, I have tried almost every case lube on the market, and a lot of automotive lubes as well. The only one I now use is Imperial Sizing Die Wax, as it is the best and require no additional tools for use.
__________________
I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111
Shoney is offline  
Old April 29, 2007, 01:08 PM   #8
layusn1
Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2006
Posts: 54
If you have to use lube for the calibers you are loading for than I would highly recommend the RCBS Lube Dies. Especially if you are using a progressive press. That is what I do with my 223. I have the Lee universal decapping die in the first spot, the lube die in the second and the resize die in the 3rd. It makes for a very quick, easy, smooth, and clean operation. After that they go back in the tumbler with a batch of lizard bedding, aka crushed nut media, that has been set aside for that purpose. I keep the cleaning/polishing media separate because I have read several posts about the lube messing up the media. It is cheap enough at pet stores that I don't mind doing it that way though.
__________________
www.ammobrasstrader.com
layusn1 is offline  
Old April 29, 2007, 01:45 PM   #9
PeteQuad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 9, 2007
Posts: 198
Hi guys, I mentioned at the beginning I'll be reloading .38spl/.44sp/.44mag for now.

I ordered the Lee Turret press and I also ordered the Cabelas tumbler so I will be cleaning the cases.

Basically, it sounds like I don't have to lube for the cartridges I am loading. So the question is - is the extra hassle of lubing worth it because it makes the reloading process easier? Perhaps this is something I will have to determine for myself (personal preference?).

I am not making any precision ammo or anything like that. Mainly just stuff to shoot through paper at the local range for fun.
PeteQuad is offline  
Old April 29, 2007, 02:25 PM   #10
Shoney
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2002
Location: Transplanted from Montana
Posts: 2,311
PeteQuad
For those cartridges, no!

Granted, lubed cases will make the sizing a tiny bit easier, but the amount is negligible. In addition you will need exert a lot of time and energy to clean the lube off after loading, and this extra work for a tiny bit less sizing exertion, just isn't worth it.
__________________
I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111
Shoney is offline  
Old April 29, 2007, 02:43 PM   #11
CrustyFN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,258
PeteQuad,
Buy carbide dies. Straight wall pistol casses do not need to be lubed. If you do lube them then they will have to be cleaned again. Big waste of time for pistol IMO. When you tumble them use a used dryer sheet or paper towel cut into 8 or 10 pieces. Add 1/2 cap full of Nu Finish car polish and run for 1 or 2 minutes. Add your brass and run for 1.5 to 2 hours with walnut longer with corn cob and they will look like new. I hope it was the classic turret that you ordered. It is an awesome press and you will be very happy. Let us know if you have any questions about setup, there are a lot of classic owners here. Congrats and load safe.
Rusty
__________________
I don't ever remember being absent minded.
CrustyFN is offline  
Old April 30, 2007, 07:17 AM   #12
rfdillon
Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 52
After having cleaned them well in the tumbler, you don't need to lube most straight wall pistol cases if you use carbide dies. I use Imperial sizing wax and the little blue box that has the bristles from Midway, along with the white Mica powder that Midway sells for ALL my rifle cases before sizing them. I tried the spray lube, but it isn't as slick as the Imperial sizing wax!
rfdillon is offline  
Old April 30, 2007, 07:52 AM   #13
DWARREN123
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2006
Location: BETWEEN TN & KY
Posts: 1,759
I use Lee carbide dies and very lightly lube the cases (32 H&R mag-357 mag).
Don't need much or any with carbide dies but the equipment will let you know if you need it by being much, much easier if used.
__________________
Have a nice day!
DWARREN123 is offline  
Old April 30, 2007, 08:04 AM   #14
PeteQuad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 9, 2007
Posts: 198
Great, thanks for all the tips! This forum is awesome.

I did indeed get the Lee Classic Turret. I'm looking forward to setting it up. I haven't ordered anything to actually reload (bullets, powder, etc.) because I'm waiting until I get and read some of the books I ordered (ABC and a couple manuals). This site has been invaluable in getting me started the right way.
PeteQuad is offline  
Old April 30, 2007, 10:23 AM   #15
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
You don't need any lube for 357, & 44's. It's not going to make it easier to any noticable degree. Now if you were loading a real tall case like a 45/70 it would make a difference to use lube.
Edward429451 is offline  
Old April 30, 2007, 11:01 AM   #16
arkie2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 3, 2006
Posts: 475
Pete

I use the Lee Classic Turret press with the Lee dies and load .45 and .357/.38 spl without lube. No problems. I can tell you from my experience loading .270 rifle ammo where lube is necessary that the amount of trouble associated with lubing isn't worth the extra effort for the straight wall pistol cases.

Also, since you're getting the Lee press, did you see the video they have at the Lee site that instructs you how to properly set it up? I had a lot of trouble with the auto advance feature initially. Worth your time if you haven't seen it yet.
arkie2 is offline  
Old April 30, 2007, 11:11 AM   #17
PeteQuad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 9, 2007
Posts: 198
Thanks I did see that and plan to review it again after I receive the press.
PeteQuad is offline  
Old April 30, 2007, 09:24 PM   #18
cheygriz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2002
Location: high up in the rockies
Posts: 2,232
I like Dillon spray lube for non-carbide pistol dies, and small rifle cases (.30-06and smaller) and Imperial sizing die wax or RCBS grease lube for the big bottleneck magnums and case forming.
__________________
If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.
cheygriz is offline  
Old May 1, 2007, 12:28 PM   #19
Shoney
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2002
Location: Transplanted from Montana
Posts: 2,311
PeteQuad
Congratulations on your plan of attack , reading thoroughly before starting the load process. There are a lot of beginning reloaders who do a little reading, start loading, and then go back to the books to figure out where they screwed up.
Or worse yet, without reading, they come to the reloading forums and ask us to wave our magic wands.
__________________
I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111
Shoney is offline  
Old May 1, 2007, 12:51 PM   #20
Smokey Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2001
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 2,064
Lubing and other thoughts

PeteQuad-- +1 to Shoney's comment re studying up! There is nothing like it. The ABC's of Reloading is The Standard Textbook on the subject. You chose well.

On case lube--For yr pistol cases, as has been stated, use carbide dies and don't lube.

Were you Full-Length sizing and loading bottleneck cases you'd need to lube. I started with those and with RCBS Case Lube. I was warned not to over-lube the shoulder so I really gooped up a case shoulder, experimentally, and sized it. Dented the shoulder pretty good, all around, where the lube squeezed out and down as the die came down on the case. Cleaned the lube from, loaded up that case and fired it, again experimentally. Result: the dents all fire-formed right back out to spec, and you couldn't tell that case from any of the other fired cases. Wouldn't reccommend that as a regular proceedure (waste of lube; more wear & tear on the case) but if it happens it's no big deal.

Except for that one case I avoided lubing the case shoulder and never had any trouble.

More recently got into Lee Collet Neck-Sizing dies, and so now I rarely Full-Length size cases. So I rarely lube cases.

Read about Imperial Sizing Die Wax and wanted to try it. Have done so, and it works (Tony the Tiger-like roar) GRRRR-eat! Clean it off the sized cases in my tumbler with corncob medium. That works great too, and less messy overall than the RCBS lube.

No experience here with the spray-on or powdered lubes. They have their advocates, too.
__________________
God Bless America

--Smokey Joe
Smokey Joe is offline  
Old May 1, 2007, 02:03 PM   #21
cheygriz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2002
Location: high up in the rockies
Posts: 2,232
Quote:
No experience here with the spray-on or powdered lubes. They have their advocates, too.
__________________

Never tried powdered lubes either.

The spray on, I use for .45-70, .223, .30-06, .308, 6MM Remington, .303 Brit. etc. I've also used it on .44 Magnum and .45 Colt before I got a carbide die.

But one thing to remembner, ALL lube needs to be cleaned off before firing! I know of one manufacturer that says their lube doesn't need to be cleaned off. To that, I answer BULLS&*T! ALL lube needs to be removed. And that's according to several manuals and my personal (unfortunately) experience.

For loading the big magnums, and for case forming, Imperial can't be beaten, although the greasy RCBS stuff works very well also.
__________________
If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.
cheygriz is offline  
Old May 9, 2007, 05:43 AM   #22
ulflyer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2004
Posts: 148
Cheygriz and others: Just curious, why does a light spray like the Hornady One Shot have to be cleaned off? Always willing to learn.
ulflyer is offline  
Old May 15, 2007, 04:20 AM   #23
RR
Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 1999
Posts: 85
If you are loading pistol cases 9mm, 45 acp 38 Super, etc, regardless of whether you are using carbide dies, if you are using a progressive press, you want to lube the cases. If you use One-Shot (spray can not the pump), you can use as much as you want and it will not have any effect on the powder or primers. The press operates so much easier, you will never reload without lube again.

No, you do not have to remove the One-Shot from the cases. This has been discussed at length on the Brian Enos forum. Millions and millions of rounds loaded and fired without removing the lube. If you want to remove the lube, just tumble the loaded rounds for 10 minutes, or tumble them for 2 days. Tumbling loaded rounds is safe and an acceptable practice. Why do you think factory rounds are so shiny-they tumble the loaded rounds.

Reloading components have changed over the years. Some lubes will affect the primer and powder-not One-Shot.

Get Brian Enos's DVD on reloading for competition. All of this is discussed. He is a long-time Dillion dealer and has reloaded zillions of rounds.

Competition shooters reload tens of thousands of rounds per year. High pressure rounds loaded to major power factor such as 40SW and 38 Super. The rounds must go bang every time.


See:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...topic=7257&hl=

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...opic=30022&hl=

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...opic=30967&hl=

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...topic=9088&hl=

Last edited by RR; May 15, 2007 at 05:30 AM.
RR is offline  
Old May 15, 2007, 11:00 PM   #24
singlestack00
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2007
Posts: 2
Who lubricates straight walled pistol brass? What a waste of time and money. I have reloaded buckets of 38 Super, 40 and 45 and never once lubed the brass and never had a problem. The dust from the cleaning media is more than enough "lubricant" for most pistol brass. Keep throwing your money and time away if you must....

Yes, I reload my arsh off. I have three dillon Super 1050's, a 650 and two 550's. I reload 308, 223, 7.62X39, 338 Lapua and every pistol caliber including 357 SIG. Not bragging, just qualifyimg my thoughts on case lube....

singlestack00 is offline  
Old May 16, 2007, 05:21 AM   #25
RR
Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 1999
Posts: 85
"Who lubricates straight walled pistol brass?"

singlestack00, well you said you "never" used lube. You should try lubing the brass. Your machine will run much smoother. You will load more per hour. Once you do, I expect you will never not lube your brass. I have never met, nor heard of, anyone who has made the investment in a 650 or 1050 who loads 10,000+ per year of a single caliber not lubing their brass. Try it. Midway and Powder Valley both stock Hornady One-Shot case lube in the spray cans (not the pump).

I have also reloaded "buckets" with and without case lube. The difference with lube is such that I do not reload without it now.

singlestack00, are your initials "AH"?????

Last edited by RR; May 16, 2007 at 10:08 AM.
RR is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13154 seconds with 7 queries