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Old April 25, 2007, 09:03 PM   #1
pdh
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Neck Sizing Problems

I have a 243 Ackley Improved Bullberry custom barrel for my Encore. To make a long story short which probably does not relate to my problem.
I ordered the barrel in 243AI. They mistakenly chambered it in 243Win. Bullberry rechambered it then to the 243AI. So I now have alittle longer chamber dimensions than the std 243AI.
I am just necksizing with the Redding 243AI sizing die. I notice after neck sizing ....after about the 2nd 243AI loadings......the bullets are loose in the neck. I was seating the 70gr Nolser Ballistic Tip bullets and I could push the bullet down through the neck into the case!! On the 85gr Seirra HPBT...I could put the tip of the bullet against the side of the bench and push it down the neck some .010 to .015" !
Ok......I measured the thickness of the necks.....the measurements are .015" on just about all cases I measured. I measured the button in the sizing die. It measures .241" I ran a few cases up farther into the die....still the same situation...
Does anyone have a clue on what is going on? JUst not sizing the neck tight enough!! I am using Winchester brass...

I am planning on in the near future....sending Hornady some fireformed brass of my chamber and having them make me a resizeing die off the dimensions of my chamber.

Any help and advise is highly appreciated............
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Old April 25, 2007, 11:03 PM   #2
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Sounds to me like the case is not getting pushed far enough into the size die. Is there resistance when bringing the case down through the size button?
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Old April 25, 2007, 11:44 PM   #3
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Seems to me little resistense. There is a .025" gap between the shell holder and the bottom of the die where the shoulder of the case is making contact in the die because of the longer chamber in my barrel. Then I adjusted the die up around .005" so I could resize most of the neck.
When I was trouble shooting...I turned the die down about 1/2 turn...die was then touching shell holder....ran a case into the die from there and the same result. Loose bullet. Anyway...I am concerned about head space when I have the die adjusted down that far......

Could to much case lube on the inside of the neck cause this problem? I run all my brass in a tumbler after sizing. Like I said though ...I am going to get some dies made for my chamber dimensions so the elliminate some the this guess work......

Thanks for the reply......
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Old April 25, 2007, 11:57 PM   #4
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I know you said you are using twice fired brass in the new chamber, but how many times was the brass used before you started with the new chamber? The reason I ask is because worn out brass will do the same thing.
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Old April 25, 2007, 11:58 PM   #5
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Sounds like the neck is not getting sized small enough before it gets pulled through the expander ball. I'd try a different die. This is where I give a plug for the fantastic Lee Collet neck die
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Old April 26, 2007, 02:21 AM   #6
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Tim.....let see..on this brass. When new..I loaded them to fireform to the AI chamber....then loaded twice after that...total of three loadings. Sorry..I orginally said two firings....

I have been wondering about the die......but I want to get a die that has the same chamber dimension as my rifle. Going to go through Hornady and have a custom die made...inwhich I was told they make them. I was going to switch brands of cases next. See what will happen. This has me and a couple of experienced loading buddies scratching our heads...
One buddy said he had simliar problems with Win. brass on his 243AI. Then he started necking down .308 brass and turning the necks.Problem never came back..I do not want to go throught all that...

Thanks again for the replies...

Last edited by pdh; April 26, 2007 at 03:46 AM.
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Old April 26, 2007, 02:42 AM   #7
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Did you try sizing without the expander?
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Old April 26, 2007, 03:48 AM   #8
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I will give it a try to see what happens. I measured the expander button with my dial caliper and it was .241"
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Old April 26, 2007, 08:54 AM   #9
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This would be easier if you had made a few measurements of the neck using once fired brass.

1 – Loaded round (tells brass thickness)

2 – Fired case (chamber size in general)

3 – Sized case with no expander (amount the brass is reduced in diameter – how much your working the brass)

4 – Sized case with expander (amount of neck tension)

5 – The expander (amount of spring back)


Using your bullet as the expander you should get plenty of neck tension, then make the above measurements to determine the cause of your problem.
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Old April 26, 2007, 09:07 AM   #10
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Pdh you can just order you a custom die set and wait for it! OR You could just order a collet or bushing neck die and re size the the neck as tight as you want. I also ran into some of the problem your having but I bought bushing dies and removed the expander. less working of my brass and better accuracy was the result.
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Old April 26, 2007, 12:35 PM   #11
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I am sorry dgc940...I have been reloading for several years but not experienced to know anything about neck bushing die and collet dies.
Could you explain?

Bullet94..I am planning on getting new brass...I will run through the measurements...

Thanks Gents.....
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Old April 26, 2007, 03:00 PM   #12
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I use the redding neck bushing die. You seat a bullet in the brass you use then measure the outside neck around the bullet then order a bushing 1,2 or .0003 thousands smaller than your measurment and the die and bushing will resize your brass that amount no more or no less. just for example if your loaded neck measured .249 and you order a bushing .248 it would shrink the brass a thousand less. and if they were still loose you would try a ..247 bushing in the die! You should go ahead and order three bushings under your measurment so you would have them.
heres a link on .243 imp dies. I ordered a sinclair international cataloge and got mine there.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...sku=0007638420
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Old April 26, 2007, 03:36 PM   #13
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Thank you so much dgc940....this will be a very serious consideration..
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Old April 26, 2007, 03:46 PM   #14
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And the collet die has a mandrel/decapper that fingers squeeze the brass around. This way, the brass only gets worked once. There is no size button. And brass thickness is not a factor since the brass gets squeezed onto the mandrel no matter the thickness of the brass. And it requires no case lube. Inside or outside. I have made some very accurate loads with my collet dies. And the brass lasts a very long time.
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Old April 27, 2007, 01:12 AM   #15
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mrawesome22

Can you adjust the amount of neck tension with the collet die or is it a set amount? If it is a set amount how much case neck tension does it apply?
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Old April 27, 2007, 02:00 AM   #16
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Bullet94, it's very easy to adjust case neck tesion. You can send in to Lee requesting the mandrel size you want for $5 and it will work no matter the thickness of the brass. The bushings depend on the thickness of the brass. That's why they require 3 or 6 bushings LOL. 3 up and 3 down.
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Old April 27, 2007, 07:33 AM   #17
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This may be true. but I only use 1 brand of brass and I dont use the expander ball.
and for the true accuracy nut they dont fool with win fed or rem brass. Go watch a match and all you will see is lapua and maybe norma. I do believe if you go over to 6mmbr forums you will find most of those guys do use the Lee collet dies.
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Old April 27, 2007, 02:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
mrawesome22
The bushings depend on the thickness of the brass. That's why they require 3 or 6 bushings LOL. 3 up and 3 down.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to. 2 bushings is enough for me using Lapua brass. I use the bushings now but the mandrel die, does sound interesting. I probably won’t change now since what I have works.
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Old April 27, 2007, 02:56 PM   #19
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You can also have a redding competition die opened up.
The sliding sleeve is not hardened and you can run a chamber reamer in (even to match your gun) with little effort.
If you are carefull you can even use the shoulder bump die by adjusting it correctly for the longer chamber.

If you are not forming a secondary shoulder for inital fire forming you are probably stretching the brass more than needed.
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Old April 29, 2007, 02:02 PM   #20
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You can also adjust the neck tension on the Lee Collet Die by screwing the die up and down.
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Old April 29, 2007, 03:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
You can also adjust the neck tension on the Lee Collet Die by screwing the die up and down.
How would that work?
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Old April 29, 2007, 04:15 PM   #22
Abstract
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More neck tension, at least on my Rockchucker, when the die is screwed down so that the press is "camming over" than when the die is just touching the shellholder. I can feel the difference in neck tension between adjustments. (But you can measure the difference, as well.)
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Old April 29, 2007, 04:44 PM   #23
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My RC Supreme has positive stop. Any press with positive stop doesn't cam over. If it did, then ram would start coming back down when the handle was being pushed in the same direction. I set mine up by raising the ram all the way, then touching the die to the shellholder, then I think I turned the die in another 1/2 turn? Any way, when I got it where I wanted it I locked down the Hornady lock ring and now every time I take the die in and out of the press, the neck tension is always exactly the same. If you're able to tell differences in neck tension, you are not getting enough weight on the handle, and the brass is not getting completely squeezed against the mandrel.
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Old April 29, 2007, 05:04 PM   #24
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I don't have any trouble getting consistent neck tension, but have noticed that I can get consistently less-than-maximum neck tension by screwing the die out a little.
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