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Old April 23, 2007, 01:00 AM   #1
KALIFORNIST
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870 bayonet......

I have read many posts on mounting lugs on 870s and most of the time the replies are "buy a 590" or "they are not really needed".Well I have 3 reasons why I think its a good idea.1.It looks really cool and I like cool looking guns.2.bayonets dont jam or run out of ammo(good for zombies).3.The real reason is I think it may aid in weapon retention.18 inch barrel poking around a corner is alot to grab on to but not with a m7 bayonet sticking off the front.even if someone were to grab the barrel it would be pretty easy to twist around and stab.From my research I have learned of the marine mount that is rare and goes for 200 dollars easily on ebay.I also read that the step down on the front of a standard 6 round 870 was originaly designed for a bayonet.I have ordered a surplus m7 and one of those bolt on bayo lug adaptors for a donor lug.has anyone just welded a lug onto their gun?I know this isnt the most sturdy way to do this but would like to have the option.
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Old April 23, 2007, 04:04 AM   #2
Doggieman
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never heard of a bayo on a shotgun but if you do it post pics
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Old April 23, 2007, 04:08 AM   #3
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Well unless you are a very acomplished tig welder and plan to re-finish the gun I'd shy away from welding on the barrel of a shot gun, silver sodier would be a relitivly high strength way to attach it but would still require refinishing --- is is a common method used by gunsmiths for various work and you could get one to do it for you... strength will just depend on gettign enough contact area between the lug and barrel

Can't argue in teh looks department though to me unless one is talking a winchester 97 military gun the bayonet on a shot gun simply does nothign for me.

As to weapon retention your line of thinking might be a little flawed there as the primary problem with long arms in close quarters is an agressor has a leverage advantage over you, and cna effectivly work the weapon out of your hands while keeping the muzzle away from themselve. Bayonet or not one could do this, though personally unless your muzzle is pointing in an unsafe direction I think lighting off a round probibly has the biggest impact on a muzzle graber even if the muzzle is not pointed at them... kind of like a flash bang. Frankly a bayonet just makes for a longer lever that could be grabed. Remember the folks you may be dealing with migh be immune to minor pain such as that caused by being cut on the hand by grabbing your bayonet.
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Old April 23, 2007, 08:26 AM   #4
bcarver
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zombie research

Gee.. Kali.
Do some research on zombies. They just about have to be shot in the head and with a large caliber. I would suggest a .41 mag as a minimum. I don't even think the .45 ACP has enough energy. The only thing you could possibly do with a bayonet is chop off their heads.
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Old April 23, 2007, 11:35 AM   #5
Slideman
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My Mossberg 590 Special Purpose came with the lug, and I have the bayonette ... I just don't know what for.

The heavy, parkerized, short barrel, large magazine, industrial-strength features I understand. I just haven't come up with the scenereo wherein I mount a bayonett. I suppose it does announce that it isn't for duck hunting ... and is of military heratige. I dunno, but it fits in nicely by my Garand, AR15, AR10 and K31.
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Old April 23, 2007, 01:37 PM   #6
KALIFORNIST
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The mount would be attached to the mag tube not the barrel.maybe even the mag clamp if the measurements will work.Didnt say it would work against zombies but if I can get just one more in the face with the bayonet after I ran outa ammo I could die/join the zombies knowing I gave it my all.I still think its good for weapon retention.Any thoughts on how this?I just cant see a way for someone to grab the shotty by the front and wrestle me for it with a bayo.
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Old April 23, 2007, 02:03 PM   #7
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You'd want a wooden version in case of witches and warlocks!!!
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Old April 23, 2007, 04:04 PM   #8
Dfariswheel
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If you must..........

The original military development of the Remington 870 used the front of the factory magazine extension as a bayonet mount.

The latch part was welded to the underside of the factory extension clamp.
This is why the factory extension tube has a groove in it.
The barrel clamp screw interlocks with the groove and prevents the clamp, from shifting on the barrel under recoil.
It also, positions the bayonet latch and prevents the clamp and latch from shifting.

All you'd need to do is buy a gun with a 20" barrel and a factory magazine extension kit.
The 20" extension is the only one that positions the groove and clamp in the right place for the bayonet, so you can't use an 18" barreled gun.

All you'd have to do is make a latch lug or cut a latch lug off an M14 flash hider or M16 front sight base, depending on which bayonet you want to use the M6 or M 7, and weld it to the bottom of the factory clamp.

Note that this was found to be a rather weak setup, and it's easy to tear up the clamp and/or the extension tube if the bayonet is actually used.
This is why the military designed and built the special shroud/extension unit with the bayonet mount.

There is a man on the AR15 forum that has seriously discussed making an updated Marine type extension with the bayonet latch, and went so far as to design one, but I've heard nothing more about it for a month or so.

So, if you have a 20" 870 and a factory extension, the easiest method is to weld an M14 or M16 latch to the bottom of a factory extension clamp.
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Old April 23, 2007, 06:45 PM   #9
KALIFORNIST
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thank you for the info.I have been looking for a excuse to buy a 20 inch rifled barrel with rifle sights and this may be it.
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Old April 23, 2007, 09:24 PM   #10
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I can just see it in a courtroom.. your short barreled "shottie" as you call it and a bayonet attached. I have a feeling you would do more time than the perp. Self defense is one thing, overgunned per se is another. It will seem to a jury of your peers as though you couldn't wait for the chance to "off" someone. The bravado is cool, but in the REAL world, it will get you time in a prison. Quit kidding yourself. Self defense is a serious thing and Judges and Juries may not have your mentality,,, most don't.. Been there as a Juror before and seen it first hand. The "Victim" went to jail. The Jury was convinced he was really looking for trouble and couldn't wait for someone to "violate" his space. Protecting yourself is one thing, looking like someone from a Rambo movie will buy you time in a prison. Don't believe me, ok, I don't care as it isn't going to be me facing the charges. Just have a "normal" shotgun, the "black shotguns" will more than likely get you in trouble and maybe seriously, whether you are right or not. Many people on a Jury don't like guns to start with, but then, it is your choice and your butt.
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Old April 23, 2007, 09:43 PM   #11
KALIFORNIST
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I asked for bayonet lug mounting advice.not a lecture.my shotgun has a standard 18 inch barrel nothing short about it.I have seen afew swat guns in magazines and on t.v shows and mine doesnt look any worse then those.I guess I could buy a 26 inch 4 shot hunting shotgun with a fancy wood stock but I dont hunt.
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Old April 23, 2007, 09:50 PM   #12
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If you want to believe what you see on TV as factual and how the law, Courts and Juries really work,, go for it. Absolutly no skin off my nose. You obviously know a lot more than me. Best of luck too as I won't be facing the charges. Thank God for Hollywood, they just enlighten the masses as to how the system REALLY works,, Ya really..
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Old April 23, 2007, 10:12 PM   #13
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If you need a pig sticker on the end of your shotgun you should not use a gun. if after 8 rounds of .12 GA you dont have a winner or are able to reload well then you pooched it bit time. as for looks i think a pig sticker on a shotgun looks like something a red neck would come up with to look like its a military gun.
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Old April 23, 2007, 10:23 PM   #14
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Now wait a minute, I've seen some pretty mean swamp rabbits when I lived down around Dundee, Fl. If a blast of 12 gauge buck doesn't put them down the bayonet may be your last line of defense.
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Old April 23, 2007, 10:45 PM   #15
KALIFORNIST
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lol,since when is dallas and detroit swat hollywood?why does everyone have to get all high and mighty over this?I think bayonets are cool.some people think nickle plated pistols with pearl grips are cool but I dont.But I dont give them a bunch of crap if they ask where to find pearl gripsthe beauty of a bayonet "mount"is you dont always have to use it so give me advice or atleast a break.
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Old April 24, 2007, 12:34 AM   #16
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While i wouldnt go to the trouble of welding on bayonet lugs, I collect military rifles and tend to go ahead and get all the things that go with them. Military finds them useful in guarding prisoners, more than making bonzi charges.

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Old April 24, 2007, 12:44 AM   #17
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Slideman,

The M7 bayonet is a pretty nice fighting knife all on its own; being able to put it on one's shotgun is a bonus. Whether or not you "need" it on the gun is YOUR decision...it's your gun, do whatever you want.

If I need to grab my Mossberg 590-A1, I will also grab the pistol-belt with ammo pouches on it...the M7 bayonet is on that belt, too.


bcarver,

That's overkill...a 22LR will do fine, but get something else for taking heads...the bayonet would be VERY hard-put to chop off ANYthing serious. I prefer a Moro barong, kris or kampilan for that job. ;-)

-- John D.
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Old April 24, 2007, 03:04 AM   #18
RsqVet
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The points about the "look" of the gun before a jury are valid but perhaps overstated at times... I'd certainly not want to be on trial with a gun with a bayonet on it but then as has been mentioned prior one need not always have it on the gun.

As to shotguns and "SWAT" or whatever... the really great thigns about shotguns is they pack very good firepower while not looking all that evil... even my 870 P max with a 3 way sling, sure fire and ghost ring sights does not look all that diffirent from a sporting gun or all that evial compared with a tricked out M4 or FAL.

As to the question of weapon retention thing of this --- or do a drill --- hold the (unloaded) gun as you would normally... have a strong, person grap the muzzle and manipulate it... you will find it can be a bit of a callange to control... now imagien someone dong that with one hand while they stab at you or take a handgun to you... the bayonet does not do all that much because frankly some meth head might just do that very thing by grabbing the blade or grabbing below the blade which puts you in the position of trying to stap at or shoot someone who is wreseling your muzzle.
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Old April 24, 2007, 09:01 AM   #19
Dave McC
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Bayonets on shotguns are nigh useless.

Zero your shotgun with slugs. Mount a bayonet. Check your zero. Chances are, your shotgun is now not shooting to the sights.

Next, pitchfork a hay bale the way folks use a bayonet. Recheck zero. Note you're not shooting to the same Zipcode.

Shotgun barrels haven't enough metal to maintain zero under those conditions.

Note that while the news footage from the War On Terror shows lots of shotguns, none have bayonets mounted. Now you know why...
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Old April 24, 2007, 04:40 PM   #20
RsqVet
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Actually an intresting poll might be how many people in the past 30 or 40 years have evever used a bayonet for it's intended use...
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Old April 24, 2007, 04:55 PM   #21
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Folks, no need to get in each other's chili.

Remington did, in fact, manufacture them. You won't find them at WalMart or Gander Mountain, but here's your proof:




They were issued to the military as the Remington 870Mk1 variant, both in complete gun form and as armorer's kits. I managed to buy two original factory Remington kits, hence my 870Mk1 above and below.

DaveMc is right. Shotgun barrels are quite thin, and if you're going to hang a bayonet on one, it had best be a seriously stout mount, like the older Winchestr Model 97 and Model 12 trench guns. I've tried the slug grouping thing with my 870Mk1 and a rifled Remchoke, and the point of impact does not change much with bayonet hanging or absent. I'll give Remington credit for thinking their design through and making sure a few bayonet thrusts into a bad guy won't bend the barrel. Take a look at the mag tube and the long 3-bolt clamp unitizing everything, actually stiffening up the barrel. You will, however, notice a nose-heavy gun for just a 20" barrel.

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Old April 25, 2007, 07:30 PM   #22
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Bayonets and shotguns go together like a fish on a motorcycle. I love them on military rigles but not shotguns
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Old April 25, 2007, 09:47 PM   #23
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Interesting comparison.

Not particularly tolerant (kinda like this thread), but interesting, nonetheless.

Uncle Sam didn't get the fish/motorcycle note, evidently.







Sounding like a Zumbo-ism in the making, to me.
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Old April 26, 2007, 12:28 PM   #24
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kgpcr,

I am going to Galveston, TX, on my motorcycle and will have fish riding with me on the way back....I believe that CONCLUSIVELY PROVES that you are wrong!

;-)

-- John D. (Mossberg 590A1 -- heavier barrel, BTW -- with M7 bayonet)
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Old April 26, 2007, 04:28 PM   #25
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Thanks for posting the pics Gewehr98, I had no idea. Learn something new every day.
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