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Old April 21, 2007, 09:19 PM   #1
Kato_Guy
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powder scale inaccuracies

I have a lee bar scale. I throw the powder, trickle up til it comes level. then I lift the pan off and then set it back on and it weighs too much. Most times when I lift the pan off then set it back on it shows a different weight. is there something wrong with mine or is this the lee scale???
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Old April 21, 2007, 11:11 PM   #2
Mike Irwin
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Do you have a set of scale check weights?

I'd suggest you get one, as the way it sounds right now you don't know what charge weight you're throwing.
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Old April 21, 2007, 11:28 PM   #3
benedict1
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Is the Vernier scale moving when you take the pan off and put it back on? Is the scale level; does it move at all when you take the pan on and off? All this can cause changes in weight.

The scale is extremely sensitive--.05 gr difference can move the pointer several millimeters--0.1 gr can move it nearly a centimeter.

How much movment are you getting and what size is the charge? If it is moving only 0.1 gr or so in weigts of 15-20 grains, forget it.

I have repeatedly checked mine against Lyman test weights and it weighs right on the money in the range from 2 to 20 grains.

Last edited by benedict1; April 21, 2007 at 11:29 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old April 22, 2007, 01:25 AM   #4
T. O'Heir
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"...the pan..." Did you zero the scale with the empty pan on or off? Is the scale level?
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Old April 22, 2007, 06:44 AM   #5
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This may sound silly, but is your scale anywhere near an open window or AC vent. It takes very little breeze to make a scale react strangely.
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Old April 22, 2007, 07:16 AM   #6
Kato_Guy
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OK.. I will start from the bottom up...


I always close the window when working on my bench...

I zero the scale with the pan on..


I make sure I dont bump the scale when I take the pan off and put it back on I zero my scale before use. when is is off it is maybe off by about half inch I know it is not off by a lot. I will check into some check weights.

thanks for the fast replies. It sounds like its may only be off by about a.1 grains or so

I will get the check weights to double check tho

thanks
kyle
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Old April 22, 2007, 09:36 AM   #7
Art Eatman
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I fairly often blow gently on the pan, just to make sure it's going to settle at zero. I'd rather have the beam swing and settle, rather than ooch to zero as I trickle in the last few granules of powder.

However, if you're consistent in the amount of "over" or "under", you can just allow for that when you set the weight to begin with.

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Old April 22, 2007, 09:51 AM   #8
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How many times did you remove the pan (with powder) and put it back on? Try repeated weighings with the same.

A good scale should be accurate, sensitive, and repeatable. Accuracy means just that. Does it weigh a known weight correctly. Sensitive. Zero the scale with empty pan. Drop a quarter in square of 20# bond paper in the pan. Does the pointer move? Repeatable means that subsequent charges (provided your dump is working correctly) measure the same.

If your scale does not meet these requirements, look a getting a different scale.

One other thought. Check the balance point for cleanliness.
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Old April 22, 2007, 09:59 AM   #9
Jim Watson
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Art is right. "Ootching" up to zero with a trickler will most likely give you more powder than setting a full pan on the scale. But he is also right that if the balance is good it will be consistent. I went back to a balance for trickling loads; the digital "snapping" from tenth to tenth was even worse about giving a higher reading when the pan was lifted and set back down. (Then I bought one of the automatic dispensers, but that was because I am lazy, not because I was not getting good loads with a trickler.)
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Old April 22, 2007, 10:15 AM   #10
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What you have is a failure of your scale to repeat. Check weights will do nothing to solve that problem. I bought one of those years ago and never used it as I had the same problem. I even built a leveling platform to ensure everything was set up correctly. Come to find out, the knife edge was walkin up the V as the beam was moving up and down. I have no warm fuzzy feelings for that pos. That scale is still sitting, boxed up, in my desk drawer. I won't even give it away. I bought a Dillon beam scale right after, and never looked back.
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Old April 22, 2007, 10:34 AM   #11
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Buy a scale made by Ohaus scale company. These are sold by Lyman, RCBS and, I think others. Quality doesn't cost, it pays!

And buy scale check weights.
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Old April 22, 2007, 11:48 AM   #12
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Check the knife edges for burs and sharpness, and check the pivots to be sure they are clean.
No lubricant of any type should be on the scale bearing points.
It needs to be clean and dry.

Damaged knife edges are a common cause of repeatability errors.
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Old April 22, 2007, 02:41 PM   #13
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I've wondered the same w/ mine... I was getting some incredibly tight groups, now they are fairly inconsistant on my 22-250. I have not ruled the scale out yet though...It may be a scope problem in my case. I trickle mine, and it seems to have worked great in the past. So in otherwords, I don't know what the problem is, but I read this post because I was wondering the same thing...
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Old April 22, 2007, 04:47 PM   #14
Kato_Guy
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if it is below and I trickle a little bit into the pan I bump the pan (not the stand) to get the beam to move a little and see where it settles. I eventually get it to settle where I want it. It would just be nice if I could throw low and trickle the last little bit to the needed grain weight.

kyle
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Old April 23, 2007, 06:33 PM   #15
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Is this the Old Days

Just wondering, why do some prefer using a "pan and scale" to dump and weigh powder charges?
Is it because of going with single stage loading equipment, rather than the press with a disk powder drop? Not that they are always "nut's on", but to me seem decades ahead of the pan and scale routine.
That said, I'm new to reloading and have a lot to learn for sure, so I'm not being critical, just curious and learning.
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Old April 23, 2007, 06:51 PM   #16
cheygriz
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Quote:
Just wondering, why do some prefer using a "pan and scale" to dump and weigh powder charges?
I use the pan and scale to SET the powder measure, and to check the measure every 100 rounds.

I agree with you completely on weighing charges, and trickling. It makes no sense to me.

My HB 6MM Remington shoots less than 1/2 MOA with ammo loaded on a Dillon 650.

I've always figured that if bench rest shooters don't weigh charges, there's no point in me doing it.
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Old April 23, 2007, 07:06 PM   #17
Kato_Guy
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I have a little thing that people call obsessive compulsive disorder. I weigh every load just for my own sanity and that way I am 100% sure that everything is correct.
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Old April 23, 2007, 07:46 PM   #18
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You could always send back to Lee. They are only $19.99. I'm sure they will check it.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=712103

Or.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=713372

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I try to be perfect. That's as good as it gets.
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Old April 23, 2007, 07:50 PM   #19
Kato_Guy
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my wife told me I should buy a digital scale. I was looking at the pact powder scale and the lyman, but am still thinking on which one to get.
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Old April 23, 2007, 07:51 PM   #20
Edward429451
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I do it like Art does. ootch it up to close and blow in the pan to forgo sticking.
My scale is over 15 - 20 yrs old and I actually prefer it to digitals or disks. I have more confidence in my balance scale than the new stuff. It's finicky a little and its like it has a sort of personality that has to be catered to but its solid on the money when I'm done. To set the measure, for single stage maxish loads. Target loads get measured.
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Old April 24, 2007, 05:21 AM   #21
qajaq59
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After all is said and done you really are going to need another scale of some kind. Or else get the factory to work on that one until you're sure it's ok.
An inaccurate scale is not only frustrating, it can be downright dangerous. I can't think of anything that would mess up your shooting more then the thought that "Maybe I have too much powder in this case."
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Old April 24, 2007, 06:26 PM   #22
TEDDY
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scales

lee scales work well,however sometimes any scale can have a problem.I hade a lee that had a problem sent it to factory they sent me a new one end of problem.
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Old April 24, 2007, 08:14 PM   #23
Kato_Guy
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I just got back from the local sprting goods store and bought the rcbs range pro. I threw some powder and my lee measured it at 28.0gr and the rcbs digital read it at 27.9gr that is pretty close I guess.

I threw a couple more and after looking at the digital scale I couldn't believe that the lee powder thrower always threw within a grain one way or the other.

Shoulda never doubted my LEE equipment. What do I do with my rcbs now keep it return it what??

and NO I am not going to sell it to YOU for half price!!!

happy loading!
kyle
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Old April 24, 2007, 08:25 PM   #24
ShootingNut
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kato

" threw a couple more and after looking at the digital scale I couldn't believe that the lee powder thrower always threw within a grain one way or the other."

Your Lee varies a whole grain, one way or the other? I thought mine was bad with 2-4 tenths variance.
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Old April 24, 2007, 08:59 PM   #25
Kato_Guy
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sorry I meant to say a tenth!!!

yea a grain would be bad!!!
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