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Old April 19, 2007, 05:51 PM   #1
atljogger
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9mm with external safety?

I'm looking for a 9mm with a manual safety feature? I am aware of the Taurus Millenium Pro ; can anyone recommend another light-weight 9mm with this feature? This would be a carry pistol but I definitely want the external safety.

Thank,
R
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Old April 19, 2007, 06:06 PM   #2
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Kimber Ageis or Springfield EMP are based off of 1911's but in 9mm. They are single action and are carried cocked and locked. Springfield XD's have external grip safeties.
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Old April 19, 2007, 06:16 PM   #3
novaDAK
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I have a Ruger P95, poly framed, manual safety. Not a single problem with it and I shoot it better than any of my other handguns.
I know a lot of people don't like Ruger for various reasons, but I have 4 of them and love every one of them.
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Old April 19, 2007, 06:21 PM   #4
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One choice - the Beretta PX4 - Type F has a manual safety. The std is about 7.5" x 5.5" and 27.7oz. They have also just introduced a subcompact version that's also available with Type F controls - 6.2" x 4.8" and 26.1oz.
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Old April 19, 2007, 06:25 PM   #5
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The Beretta Px4 Storm comes to mind. You would want the Type F which has the manual safety. Ruger has a couple to look at also. Those are both sort of bulky so concealing them is tougher. There's a sig pro model that has one but I've never seen it in person. I think it's hard to find. There's hi-power and hi-power clones and also 1911 variants but those will weigh more.

My recommendation - H&K USP. They can be configured with or without a manual safety so if you decide later you don't want it, they can easily change it. They are lightweight, come in a compact model, have a high capacity, and are proven to be reliable.
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Old April 19, 2007, 06:34 PM   #6
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If used pistols are an option for you, the S&W CS9, 3913, 908, and 910 all are light weight, manual safety/decocker 9mm pistols. They can be found LNIB for cheap, and IMHO are excellent carry pistols. Accurate, and durable, as well as reliable. Good luck. Regards 18DAI.
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Old April 19, 2007, 06:39 PM   #7
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Kimber makes a 1911 in 9mm Tactical Pro II - I have one and it's a decent gun at about 30 oz.

Wilson Combat will make all of their guns in 9mm - carry models, etc - you can give them a call too - but very good guns.
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Old April 19, 2007, 07:57 PM   #8
atljogger
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Thanks for the feedback. How does the H&K USP compare to the Millen. Pro? What about the USP versus the USP compact - big difference here?

Thanks.
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Old April 19, 2007, 08:32 PM   #9
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Speaking of Wilson Combat, don't they do a compact 9mm these days, designed for CCW or as BUG? Hang on...

Yeah, here we are, the Advanced Design Pistol; 24 oz. loaded and with an ambidextrous manual safety. No accessory rail, but if you wanted it for CCW purposes, you probably aren't looking to festoon it with bells and whistles anyway.
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Old April 19, 2007, 09:22 PM   #10
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HK USP blows the Tarus out of the water. The USP is a well proven design tested and issued by many departments, and frankly it shoots like a dream, the only downside is the price. The Tarus is a value line product, servicable at best, sometimes not even that.

If you are most concerend about absolute safety (as your post suggests) I'd go with the HK, carried decocked and on safe... of course I carry a 1911 cocked and locekd on safe and feel OK with that, however a gun that is DA / SA carried de-cocked and on safe is arguably the "safest" if that is your desire / criteria. Again others make reasonable choices that are diffirent from this but I'm not going to get into that, to each their own.

As for the USP size i'd definatly go with the compact for CCW, the HK 2000 SK size gun is ieven better size wise but alas not available in the configuration you seek, to my knowladge at lieast, though the HK action varyations change or are added to frequenlty enough that it is hard to keep up.

Any of the Smith and Wesson traditional Da / SA guns with a normal decocker / safety would work for you as well and are darn good guns, at relitivly modest prices. The compact modeles would be good for CCW

The Beretta while meeting your criteria is a bit large for me for ccw, though it's an otherwise decent gun.
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Old April 20, 2007, 12:32 AM   #11
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any of the S&W 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation autos, also the beretta 92 series (I have the centurion) they also made an 8 round slim-line version too...

If money is no object get the H&K P7M8, that squeeze cocker is probably the best safety you can get. No accidentally setting that off...
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Old April 20, 2007, 07:18 AM   #12
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"a gun that is DA / SA carried de-cocked and on safe is arguably the "safest" "

I can attest to that

I have seen some students that could not get one to actually fire

Flicking the lever up and down trying to get it in the fire position.....oops...too far decocked

Now that is safe

Unless...you know...you need it to work right now

Not pulling the trigger is the only real safety...everything else just makes some people feel better IMO

I wonder if S&W is going to offer a thumb safety for the M&P9

It is a (removeable) option on the 45
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Old April 20, 2007, 08:17 AM   #13
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Springfield EMP:

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Old April 20, 2007, 08:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
HK USP blows the Tarus out of the water. The USP is a well proven design tested and issued by many departments, and frankly it shoots like a dream, the only downside is the price. The Tarus is a value line product, servicable at best, sometimes not even that.
While I agree the USP is infinitely superior to the Taurus, I wouldn't carry one daily (concealed) simply because it's way too big for a 9mm. But it is very high quality and uber-reliable. I love my USP's, but all of mine are in .45 ACP.
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Old April 20, 2007, 08:58 AM   #15
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Hk

If cost isn't a factor. The HK 2000 V3 is a DA/SA pistol. This action type gives you the best of both the DAO and the SAO. There is no safety as the heavy trigger pull makes it relatively safe.

Take note that a DA revolver has no safety due to the heavy trigger pull. The little HK does have a decocker, which helps many lower the hammer safely. That is where the danger would come in. If your mind slips you and you re holster and don't decock the pistol ,it will be in SA mode, after the first shot it would be easy to have a ND. Practice with it and get used to the heavy pull of the trigger in DA. Practice decocking. Note, the decocker is a mechanical device and could fail. Be sure that you have the pistol pointing in a safe direction before decocking. After a time decocking will be second nature. On a DA/SA semi-auto pistol only the first shot is DA, after that the pistol goes into SA mode. SA is a short and light pull, just as if you were firing a revolver with the hammer cocked. It is much easier to be accurate with a SA action, that is why many prefer the 1911, aside from some other mechanical advantages that the 1911 design has. The primary safety on any firearm is the user, keep your finger outside the trigger guard and no NDs will happen.

Always use a holster. Holsters are designed to keep your finger off the trigger as you draw the pistol. If you must carry in a pocket or other method without a holster make sure that only the pistol is in that pocket. No other items should be in that pocket. Too easy to get a object inside of the trigger guard and well...

The HK 2000 sk is about 1/2 an inch longer than the Taurus, other than that the size and weight is comparable.
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Old April 20, 2007, 09:25 AM   #16
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^^^^ Obiwan, if the person moved the safety lever on the USP too far down to decock the gun, wouldn't it be able to be fired in DA mode? Or am I missing something here?

I agree that the used S&W models are probably a good choice to look into, especially the 3913. Supposedly the M&P line will be adding the safety from the M&P .45 eventually, but it is not known when that will happen and if it will also be put on the compact.
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Old April 20, 2007, 11:22 AM   #17
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Flicking the lever up and down trying to get it in the fire position.....oops...too far decocked

Now that is safe


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I cannot imagine anyone inadvertantly decocking my PT92. It requires a deliberate depression of the springloaded portion of the lever's travel. Even if decocked, a DA pull of the trigger will touch off the chambered round.

Call me a control freak, but the ability to completely control my pistol's firing mode with either thumb without altering my grip is to me an asset. I get all hot and bothered just like everyone else with the latest tacticool polystrikerwhizbang uberpistol out there, but when it comes to shooting them, all but the USP's in Variant 1 make me feel I'm giving up something I have and appreciate in my lowly Taurus PT92. BTW, that PT917 looks hawt to me.
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Old April 20, 2007, 11:36 AM   #18
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^^^^ Obiwan, if the person moved the safety lever on the USP too far down to decock the gun, wouldn't it be able to be fired in DA mode? Or am I missing something here?
Yes, the USP will still fire in DA.
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Old April 20, 2007, 12:24 PM   #19
elprofeloco
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Lightweight

atljogger:

I recently shopped for a LIGHTWEIGHT 9mm for concealed carry and also prefer a manual safety.

I bought a Taurus PT111 9mm and am satisfied.

Many of the guns recommended in the above posts are excellent weapons but don't fit my criteria as light enough for daily concealed carry. This is very subjective, but for me round-the-clock carry translates to a pistol weighing about 20-28 oz. LOADED; the lighter the better.

I know people carry 1911s, .45s, .357s and other heavier firearms. I own some of those, but personally find them to be uncomfortable, large, and heavy for my personal preferences for extended concealed carry.

You might also look at the CZ 2075 RAMI-P (polymer) 9mm; it is part of the much lauded CZ 75 series.

The Sprinfield XD Subcompact would be a good choice if the manual safety were not a requirement.

Taurus is allegedly coming out with a 24/7 PRO subcompact version soon - although I don't see how it would differ much from their current MilPro/PT series.
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Old April 20, 2007, 12:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
HK USP blows the Tarus out of the water. The USP is a well proven design tested and issued by many departments, and frankly it shoots like a dream, the only downside is the price. The Tarus is a value line product, servicable at best, sometimes not even that.
My experience with the USP is EXACTLY the OPPOSITE. Mine wouldn't group, it would pattern. HK replaced the entire upper end, six weeks after they received the gun. Now, THAT'S QUALITY.
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Old April 20, 2007, 01:03 PM   #21
atljogger
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Great feedback. Thanks!
Regarding the weight issue - the Taurus Millen. Pro is 18.7 oz w/out magazine according to website. USP Compact is 23.5 oz w/out (26.4 w/), so the USPc is definitely heavier there when you are talking about a carry weapon. What about the recoil on these two 9mm's? I've read that the USP standard has recoil reducer but that the USPc does not. Obviously for my girlfriend, less recoil is ideal. Anyone notice a difference between the two?

- R
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Old April 20, 2007, 01:25 PM   #22
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This, in a 3" to 3.25" barrel, possible shortened gripframe, without the rail, and in stainless over poly, would be my ideal CCW piece.

http://www.taurususa.com/whatsnew/pistols.cfm

I love the exposed hammer, condition 1 capability, decocker, abi-safety & mag release. While modifying, I'd also like a taper on the front of the slide for reholstering (and aesthics).
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Old April 20, 2007, 01:31 PM   #23
elprofeloco
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Recoil

My Taurus PT111 9mm has a short 3.25" barrel and better recoil than any of the many .38 spl revolvers and .45 semiautos that I've owned or shot.

Since I also own a Taurus 24/7 9mm (4"+ barrel), I find the PT111 as expected has more "muzzle-flip" but very tolerable recoil.

The reason I don't carry a .40 is recoil, and the reason I don't concealed carry my .45 is weight and size (and a short-barrel .45 will usually have lotsa recoil and muzzle flip).

For me, 9mm short-barrel polymer semi-autos work well, and are step up on "stopping" power from my .38 revolver and .380 semi-autos.

I have very small hands, so the caliber also affects grip size, and anything over 9mm tends to be a bit fat for me unless it is a single-stack configuration.
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Old April 20, 2007, 01:47 PM   #24
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Maybe not light weight but for my 9mm with a safety screams Browning hi Power.

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Old April 20, 2007, 02:29 PM   #25
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Yes, when in double action mode the DA/SA/Safe pistols will fire

But when you watch an newbie learning the weapon you often see them surprised because

1. They ususall train SA almost all the time, so why is it so hard to pull the trigger and why was the hammer forward

2. I am pulling the trigger and nothing is happening oops...on safe

3. Whoa...I wasn't ready...wasn't the pull supposed to be longer

4. My finger really hurts because every time I holster I need to decock and then engage the safety

And yes I have seen them when flustered on timed drills flipping that lever every which way trying to get it to do what they expect

In case I am being too subtle...nawww....I don;t think much of DA autos...and especially DA/SA/Safe autos

Strikes me as being both a belt and suspenders

"completely control my pistol's firing mode"

How many modes do you need?


Mostly the only mode I care about is BANG

And my finger gives me perfect control
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