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Old April 18, 2007, 08:01 PM   #1
9mmsnoopy
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Should the media be showing this guys "manifesto"?

I think the best thing for NBC to have done would have been to immediately notify the FBI and turn that express mail over to them and it never sees the light of day for the public.

This guy was one sick puppy and had this planned out to the 9th degree, mailing that express mail an hour before his massacre. He wanted the world to see and hear his diatribe, why give him the satisfaction,even in death.

Thats not to mention that its just adding to the pain of all of those who lost loved ones.

I guess that would have been asking too much of NBC, now they have material for a months worth of shows, but it would have been nice.
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Old April 18, 2007, 08:15 PM   #2
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Absolutely. Not just because people deserve to know what happened but because freedom of the press is equally as important as the right to bear arms, even if we don't like what the press has to say.
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Old April 18, 2007, 08:23 PM   #3
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The archivist in me demands everything, whether he wanted it to be read or not. It got made, and so we should have access to it.

And in regards to matters such as this, I'm all archivist. He tells us why, and you seek to stifle it? For shame...
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Old April 18, 2007, 08:26 PM   #4
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Yes, transparency on the part of the government is important. Not that I doubt they would rewrite the note if it suit their purpose. Please pass the tinfoil.
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Old April 18, 2007, 08:32 PM   #5
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It's not about giving the guy satisfaction, it's about providing information that could benefit all of us...educating people. Yes, absolutely it should have been released...all of it, unfiltered. You can't shelter people from the truth and then expect anyone to understand or be prepared for instances like this.
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Old April 18, 2007, 09:28 PM   #6
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I want to see everything. Now, while we're at it... show me everything from every administration since George Washington. I want every available email, every letter, every dictaphone recording, every photograph and every line-by-line budget expenditure.

I wish our government came forward with information about itself like they volunteered information in this case involving some 23 year old resident-alien that nobody gave a damn about until a few days ago.

They can find more out about this loner psycho in 3 days than they could find out about the psycho in Iraq in 30 years. Where is the "Puke" smilie?
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Old April 18, 2007, 10:24 PM   #7
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Absolutely. Not just because people deserve to know what happened but because freedom of the press is equally as important as the right to bear arms, even if we don't like what the press has to say.

As distasteful as I think it is to read and publish it, I think it is NBC's perogative. Were it someone like the Unabomber, saying that if you publish his manifesto, he'll stop bombing...I'm really ambivalent there. I don't think the government should do it, because I think giving in to terrorist demands only encourages more in the long run. (Setting up a repeated game-theoretic losing situation).

That ambiguity on my part said, I don't think the government should stop the publication, nor do I think it has the constitutional power to. It would be good form on NBC's part to inform the FBI of the transcript, get their advice, but never withold it altogether, such pieces can be of vast importance, I feel. (I believe Tim McVeigh's reasoning was important to note, in terms of mass murderers, as was Ted Kaczynski's. Informative on type and reasoning, such that it can be prevented in the future).
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Old April 18, 2007, 10:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
...Were it someone like the Unabomber, saying that if you publish his manifesto, he'll stop bombing...I'm really ambivalent there. I don't think the government should do it, because I think giving in to terrorist demands only encourages more in the long run. (Setting up a repeated game-theoretic losing situation).

...(I believe Tim McVeigh's reasoning was important to note, in terms of mass murderers, as was Ted Kaczynski's. Informative on type and reasoning, such that it can be prevented in the future).
If I remember correctly, part of the reason Kaczynski was caught was because they published his manifesto. Didn't somebody (his brother?) recognize either the writing style or the themes, and tip off the police?[/tangent]
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Old April 19, 2007, 12:52 AM   #9
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Comment

It's news, simple as that. And if we found out - and we would - that such a tape was sent to a network and never aired, many would feel it was inappropiate to decide for everbody what they will see.

As well, seeing the true face of a great evil, is ultimately educational, like Auschwitz, as a warning: "THIS EXITS"....... "catch it when it starts!". This guy was so obviously consumed with hatred, twisted and perverted beyond belief, that there was nothing compelling or attractive about him - it made you wretch.

As a side note, I teach at a university, this is hard on them, our students - all of this. One of my freshman told us in class this afternoon, after a silent moment to remember the fallen - that she had just graduated high school a few months ago with the first girl murdered, in the dorm. It's hard on teachers too (as I know on everyone in the country), but to see those same young faces, bright and hopeful and full of promise, like those one sees everyday in our own classes - gone, cut off -like ripping out a sapling tree - well it's just so sad...if I was a teacher down there who had lost my students, I wouldn't get it over it I don't think.

Last edited by gvf; April 19, 2007 at 01:07 AM. Reason: edit
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Old April 19, 2007, 01:03 AM   #10
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If he feels so strongly about something that it drives him to kill, I'd sure like to know what was on his mind.

What if the police started keeping criminal's motives secret on a regular basis?
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Old April 19, 2007, 02:01 AM   #11
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Could somebody tell me why the FBI is involved in the first place?
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Old April 19, 2007, 02:02 AM   #12
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Interstate commerce obviously comes into play
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Old April 19, 2007, 02:06 AM   #13
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I agree with those on here that have stated that the press has every right to publish the information that he presented to them. It is news and does offer an insight into why this happened.

The only thing that has made me sick so far is a woman I saw on the news tonight saying that because he "did not get the help he needed" this tragedy came to pass. It made me ill to see someone try to turn this piece of filth from the madman he was into a victim. He was not a victim. He was an unbalanced person who was a threat to himself and society. He was a mad dog and nothing more.
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Old April 19, 2007, 08:43 AM   #14
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Show it

But make it clear to every wannabee out there that this was one sick twisted coward...
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Old April 19, 2007, 08:56 AM   #15
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No, make it available on news websites and such, but blasting that guys face and message is insentive to the families who have not even had funerals yet. And most of the time I really could care less about "feelings".

Give it some time, then put it on 60 Minutes/Dateline or some other news show. First thing this morning was not the time I wanted to see it, it put me in a ****** off mood on the drive to work.
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Old April 19, 2007, 09:33 AM   #16
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Absolutely Positively NOT.

Why are we seeing rampage killers?

1. Is it because of the availability of guns?

No. Guns have always been available, if anything they were more available 40, 50, 60 years ago than today. There were not multiple cases of rampage shooters blasting schools and malls then so it would be foolish to say they are the cause now.

2. Is it because there are more nuts now?

There have always been dysfuntional families and mentally ill individuals who have committed crimes through the years. That is no different now.

3. Is it what kids see in the way of entertainment/games.

Kids always played war, cops and robbers, cowboys and indians. John Wayne killed them by the dozen, James Cagney machine gunned people. Yes today is more graphic in some ways and lack of parental supervision is probably causing some desensitization to violence but there is a large leap from watching Friday the 13th to mowing down 32 people in cold blood.

If we have always had violent games and movies, always had nuts, and always had guns then why do we now have this increase in ramapge shooters?

We never made the rampage shooter a celebrity before!

The 24 hour news thing is new. The celebrity status (in their minds) is new. The media blitz from every angle that innundates every waking soul in this nation is new. Now if someone kills a large amount of people in a huge scene he knows his face and name will be published everywhere. People will have no choice but to see it and hear his words as reported 24 hours a day. You cannot turn on the radio without hearing his words, turn on the telivision without seeing his videos, walk through a store without having his face plasterred at every counter.

After the initial flurry then the story will continue. For weeks his name and face will be broadcast as talking heads discuss why he did it, how he did it, and every other aspect of his life. Any words he left behind will be played over and over. Then every year he will be ressurected. News channels will come back to him, every tabloid will report what HE did. The pain he caused will be dug back up and spread out for the world all the time connected with his face, his name and his message.

These createures are developed by what ever evil lurks in their genetic code and twisted upbringing they may have gone through. They are driven though to their acts by the celebrity status we grant them.

Their faces and names should not be broadcast or printed in anything but subject specific texts avaialble for the study of such individuals. The media should not be allowed by law to broadcast anything personal about them, especially any messages they left. They conduct their acts in order to gain the attention our media gives them. To these killers they have made a business deal... "I will give you my life and the lives of many others in exchange for you giving me fame."

Just as the first ammendment does not protect your right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater is should not protect the right of the media to broadcast what is essentially payment for the crime thereby driving more to do likewise. The FBI advises against paying extortion or ransoms because they only encourage others to commit the same crime. In this case we have a media that is a willing accomplice to these killers by completeing the work they have started.

The broadcasting of these animals names and messages directly endangers the remaining population. The media cannot report items deemed top secert legally and they cannot broadcast the names of victims of sexual assault legally in many jurisdictions. There is plenty of precident for the First Amendment NOT allwoing the media to broadcast something.

What is more this is NOT a case of the government forbiding the transmition of information damaging to itself (the real reason for the 1A).

Refer to him or her as "the criminal" or "the killer". Discuss the details of the case in the media but do NOT make them a celebrity by broadcasting their face or name. Especially do not broadcast their message.

Allow the texts on the subject to report everything fully but leave the media blitz out of it. There were always texts on the subjects of killers, it is the blinding media spotlight that is new.

Yes, we cannot stop every blogger. That does not matter though. Reign in the majority of the irresponisble reporting and let others who have similar demons see that they will not attain their goal of Celebrity Status byt conducting a rampage killing.
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Old April 19, 2007, 10:19 AM   #17
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No, the nuts garbage should be just that- in the garbage. Showing this trash over and over again does nothing but set the bar for the next nut case. Yeah, I have the curiousity to want to see it but the down side out weighs the fact that there are people in our society that have no business with guns and all this does is provides them with a training manual and a score to beat. It will happen again, and sadly, soon.
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Old April 19, 2007, 10:23 AM   #18
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Let the exact details such as his letters, face and name only show up in subject related texts. The information will still be available but NOT bombarded as it currently is.
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Old April 19, 2007, 10:24 AM   #19
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If you want to make a case for the media sensationalizing this travesty in a most grevious and trashy manner (with a bias tilted toward a political agenda) I will agree. BUT, they have no right to hide the information.
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Old April 19, 2007, 10:36 AM   #20
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If you want to make a case for the media sensationalizing this travesty in a most grevious and trashy manner (with a bias tilted toward a political agenda) I will agree. BUT, they have no right to hide the information.
No. At this time they have a right to publish it or bury it as they see fit. You have no right to tell them they HAVE to show it.

I think the law must be changed so that they cannot show it.
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Old April 19, 2007, 10:41 AM   #21
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No. At this time they have a right to publish it or bury it as they see fit. You have no right to tell them they HAVE to show it.
Do I asertain a hint of facism. You are incorrect sir. I have every right to demand full disclosure (unless you can make a case for national security).
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Old April 19, 2007, 11:29 AM   #22
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I think the law must be changed so that they cannot show it.
Let's fight for the second amendment so we can throw the first one out the window?
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Old April 19, 2007, 11:39 AM   #23
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It is NBC's right to show it, but I won't be watching. The guy was a sick ****, and he did this for noterity. I sure as hell won't help any further by viewing it. I already seen enough in his dumb notes and plays on The Smoking Gun's site.
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Old April 19, 2007, 11:45 AM   #24
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It's human nature. They've GOT to show it. Ever drive past a really bloody car wreck? You ALWAYS turn to see. You KNOW it's not anything you want to see, but you HAVE to look. It's human nature. Same thing here. Justice would better be served to simply forget this nut-bag ever existed, and for us to never read his "manifesto." But, that's not how it works. We've got to look. We are curious creatures by nature.

Concerning the News, it would be morally presumptuous for the news channels to dictate what we are allowed to see, and what we aren't. They owe us the right to see the "manifesto" if we want to. At the same time, I don't appreciate the news channels plastering this thing up all over everywhere, FORCING us to see it. It seems I can't look anywhere without seeing something about this guy's "manifesto," and that I don't like. I'd like to have the choice, and I would appreciate it if my choices weren't simply just, "Read the manifesto, or don't attempt to look up any news anywhere."

Tough situation...
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Old April 19, 2007, 11:46 AM   #25
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In his rant he mentions Eric and Dylan obviously referring to the other celebrity killers that he was competing or empathizing with.
A South Korean man from Virginia could only developed this type of relationship with two barely adolescent kids from Colorado through the media orgy that surrounded their actions
He also could not have killed so many people in so short a time with with little or no real resistance without a gun

So which do we choose to ban information or guns, the same case can be made against each
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