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Old November 19, 2011, 01:47 PM   #1
Machinist10
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AR15/M16 Laws??

First Post just joined This forum has many knowledgable members and seems to hold its own. What I am trying to find is laws on AR15 parts vs M16 parts. So thus the question. Is it UNLAWFUL to possess an M16 Lower receiver? I can imagine that it is illegal to possess a Modified AR15 to accomidate M16 parts, but what about the other way around?? M16 Lower with AR15 parts??

Anything helps thanks
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Old November 19, 2011, 03:04 PM   #2
m17s_guy
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I would have to do more research, but i believe that the M16 lower is listed as an NFA weapon. Much like the original Thompson sub machine gun... the parts to make it fully auto would not fit into a semi auto replica receiver.
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Old November 19, 2011, 08:22 PM   #3
tmorone
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The lower is "the rifle" as far as the law is concerned, since it's what has the serial number.

I'm assuming you're saying M16 in terms of select fire, and AR15 in terms of semi-auto. If that's the case- without getting into SBR's and such- the lower is what has the trigger group, and is what will get you into trouble.

Unregistered machine gun= prison. Hope that helps.
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Old November 19, 2011, 08:30 PM   #4
medalguy
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Yes, the lower is the part that requires registration and taxes in the case of th M16. The AR15 lower is simply a rifle receiver, no special requirements beyond that of any .22 cal rifle receiver. You may possess any and all M16 parts and they are all perfectly legal, whether or not you have an AR15 lower. The M16 parts will not fit into an unaltered AR15 receiver. What you may NOT do is machine out the AR15 lower to accept the fully automatic M16 parts. That constitutes intent and constructive possession in the case of possession of all the parts.

And the manufacture and private possession of any new machine guns was halted with the 1986 change in the laws so there's no way you can legally make an M16 out of an AR15.
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Old November 19, 2011, 08:52 PM   #5
mboylan
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You can buy a grandfathered M16 that was manufactured and registered before the cut off in 1986. A full auto AR receiver will start at around $10,000.00. A real M16 will start at $14,500.00. You must transfer on Form 4. The tax is $200.00. The wait for approval is about 4 months.
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Old November 19, 2011, 10:25 PM   #6
Willie Lowman
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The wait for approval is more like 5 months right now. I am at 5 months and 12 days on SBR and AOW transfers.
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Old November 20, 2011, 09:59 AM   #7
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And of course, machine guns must be legal to own per your state laws also...
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Old November 20, 2011, 11:26 AM   #8
Machinist10
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ok. so to wrap it up ar15 machined out=bad news. Ar15 with auto sear selector swith and all other M16 parts=bad news. But if you possess just an M16 lower receiver with semi auto parts (ar15) they will still drop the hammer on you??
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Old November 20, 2011, 11:48 AM   #9
Willie Lowman
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Yes. The ATF has a saying, "once a machinegun, always a machinegun."

You don't even need to have any trigger parts in it. If you have the lower of a M16 and it isn't registered to you in some way (on form 2 for a manufacturer, form 3 for a dealer, or form 4 for a pre '86 transferable) it is bad bad news.


See the pin above where it says SEMI? If you have a lower that has that pin or even the hole that that pin could go in, you have a machinegun. And if you are asking questions like "is this legal" you probably don't have a tax stamp and you definitely aren't a SOT. So if you do happen to have a M16 lower (and I'm not saying you do) turn it in to the feds before they catch you with it.

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Last edited by Willie Lowman; November 20, 2011 at 11:53 AM.
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Old November 20, 2011, 11:50 AM   #10
Nathan
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Quote:
ok. so to wrap it up ar15 machined out=bad news. Ar15 with auto sear selector swith and all other M16 parts=bad news. But if you possess just an M16 lower receiver with semi auto parts (ar15) they will still drop the hammer on you?
Yes. It is all in the numbers.

Then again can you think of the last time anyone looked at a serial number on any gun you own?
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Old November 20, 2011, 12:05 PM   #11
Machinist10
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lol true true but thats still bad news. I was just looking for some more advice how to properly approach the situation. thank you everybody for you help it helps out alot by keeping me out of prison lol
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Old November 20, 2011, 12:33 PM   #12
James K
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Please check me if I am wrong, but AFAIK, "M16" is the military designation and no M16s (or M16 lowers) were ever legally owned or sold on the civilian market. Prior to 1986, selective fire AR-15's were sold to police and some were sold on the civilian market, but they were not marked "M16". It seems common to refer to any selective fire rifle of that type as an "M16", but that appears not to be accurate.

Or am I about to be jumped on by thousands of folks who own M16's, M249's, Ma Deuces, 155mm SP guns, M1A1 tanks, etc.?

Jim
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Old November 20, 2011, 12:49 PM   #13
Willie Lowman
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You are wrongish.

http://www.dealernfa.com/Machine_Guns.htm

Check the link. All those M16s (and F/A AR 15s) for sale are transferable. Some of them were originally owned by a police dept. But they are marked M16 and they were in the registry for civilian ownership before 86.

From what I am told, Colt was pretty strict about M16s only going to law enforcement. If a dealer got a dozen M16s and couldn't show that they all were sold to a LE agency, Colt wouldn't do business with that dealer anymore. That did not stop dealers from transferring M16s to civilians though.
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Old November 20, 2011, 01:41 PM   #14
James K
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I was offered an AR-15 selective fire by a dealer when they first came out, but turned it down (OK, OK, I know, but the price was stiff for those days, plus the $200).

I also have seen several selective fire rifles billed as M16's but which turned out to be either selective fire AR-15's or built up guns marked "M16" by the builder. That is why I asked the question.

I do know that during the '68 amnesty, ATTD would not accept registration of rifles marked "M16" and would report owners to the FBI for possession of stolen government property. They claimed the amnesty was only on the machinegun possession, not on theft, though I don't know if anyone went to jail.

Jim
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Old November 21, 2011, 07:59 AM   #15
Skans
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You cannot possess an unregistered M16 Lower receiver. It would be an illegal machine gun.
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Old November 24, 2011, 12:31 AM   #16
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Yes there ARE legal registered M16s out there. I have one marked XM16A1 and U S Property and it WAS registered during the 1968 amnesty. That's what an amnesty is, a period during which you can declare and register any weapon and no charges can be brought against you for possession or failure to register, failure to pay tax, etc. There are quite a few legal M16s in existence.
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