? Rule of Thumb

moose fat · March 30, 2007, 02:21 AM

Is there a general rule when using small rifle magnum primers when the books don't call for there use?

I have 2K sm rifle mag primers and heard that reducing the load by 15% (from max. or min.) and working up works. I plan, maybe, on using Varget, for my bushy, 62 or 65 gr GameKing bullets and once fired brass from same rifle.

They will be hunting loads for varmints.
Varget is supposed to be suitable for a wide temp. range ( below 0 deg. F). Is there a source/recipe for cold weather loads?
Thanks

Shoney · March 30, 2007, 03:04 AM

I have experimented with mag primers in 222, 6mmRem, 6.5X55, 270, and 30-06. I started at 15% below the Max listed load in all cartridges. In the 222, which used the faster powders, I found that pressure would spike rapidly with very small increased in powder. Therefore, I would suggest working up in in 0.3 gr increments to the mid range, then very carefully in 0.1 to 0.2 gr increments from there up, watching closely for pressure signs.

Although I am not sure if or how it relates to your 223, the slower burning powders with mid to heavy bullets in the other cartridges were usually, repeat, usually not as inclined to rapid pressure spikes. The 6mmRem/100gr, 270/150, and 30-06/180 with slower powders would go right up to max listed loads with no pressure signs IN MY WEAPONS. Yours may be different, so go slow.

Shoney · March 30, 2007, 04:25 AM

Cold weather shooting. There are powders advertised to perform consistently over a wide range of temperatures. I am sure they are of value, but in subzero weather there are other factors at play.

On more occasions than I care to count, I have hunted in subzero weather. One memorable hunt went 3 days at –44 to –38 degrees F. I have shot many game animals at temperature of -10 to -30 F, and have definitely noticed reduced velocity and reduced terminal performance of the bullets. Although I have a chronograph, I have never shot loads over it in subzero, because the wind was usually blowing at too much velocity.

It is a physical fact that metal shrinks in cold temperatures (consider the old trick of removing stuck cases from loading dies by putting them in the freezer over night before extraction). I believe there are a number of factors at work at sub zero temps: primer ignition is lessened, powders have reduced power, barrels are slightly constricted and impede bullet speed, and bullet alloys ability to deform and glide down the barrels reduces speed. I am sure there are others. I base this not on scientific data, but on my personal observations and comparisons of the wound channels in lots of game taken at very low vs. moderate temps with a variety of cartridges.

If you plan to do lots of cold weather shooting, I would suggest you work up loads at the bench in the weather in which you plan to hunt. And as an added bonus, you could let us know the results of your findings. Warm weather loads fired in cold temps and the differences of the loads you work up for cold weather.

RJay · March 30, 2007, 08:36 PM

If you use Magnum primers, instead of the called for small rifle, then make sure you check your load at the range, even if nothing was else changed and your old load was accurate. On some loads the different between Magnum and regular primers can be as much as 2 to 3 inches at a hundred yards. I first learned of this reloading for the .22 Hornet. I'm not enough of an engineer to explain why, I just know it's so.

RERICK · March 30, 2007, 09:30 PM

The only experience I've had with magnum primers in a rifle load has been certain .223 loads using H335 when they have called for it. That was in the Speer book. I have seen other .224 loads of the same weight bullets in other load books using H335 that did not call for a magnum primer though. I don't recall see others as the only rifle I load for at present is the .223 and 5.56. I would assume thats the way they developed and tested the load. I don't recall ever seeing a load using Varget calling for one though. I personally don't see why you would want too with Varget IMHO.

moose fat · March 31, 2007, 03:23 AM

Thank you for the replies.

I am just begining to think seriously about reloading for .223 ($). I'm getting my ducks in a row, still need to get the dies for .223. I can't experiment too much as supplies are a frieght plane and haz-mat fee away for powder and primers.

From what I have heard and read magnum primers are a component of cold weather loads, besides thats what I've got.

I have been reloading for a month now and have a long way to go. I got some mill-surp rifles, 2A 7.62 and No.4Mk1 .303, that I have to reload for. I have been keeping records for every load. Where I live in Alaska we have a very long winter and so am interested in cold weather loads.

I did some internet searches and couldn't find much
"reloading for cold weather"

-The U.S. Army has a cold weather round.
- some shotgun stuff
-Safari Intl. says use a belted magnum over 30 cal.
-don't use ball powder

The search is on!

March 30, 2007, 02:21 AM	#1
moose fat Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Alaska, Yukon R. delta Posts: 381	? Rule of Thumb Is there a general rule when using small rifle magnum primers when the books don't call for there use? I have 2K sm rifle mag primers and heard that reducing the load by 15% (from max. or min.) and working up works. I plan, maybe, on using Varget, for my bushy, 62 or 65 gr GameKing bullets and once fired brass from same rifle. They will be hunting loads for varmints. Varget is supposed to be suitable for a wide temp. range ( below 0 deg. F). Is there a source/recipe for cold weather loads? Thanks

March 30, 2007, 03:04 AM	#2
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	I have experimented with mag primers in 222, 6mmRem, 6.5X55, 270, and 30-06. I started at 15% below the Max listed load in all cartridges. In the 222, which used the faster powders, I found that pressure would spike rapidly with very small increased in powder. Therefore, I would suggest working up in in 0.3 gr increments to the mid range, then very carefully in 0.1 to 0.2 gr increments from there up, watching closely for pressure signs. Although I am not sure if or how it relates to your 223, the slower burning powders with mid to heavy bullets in the other cartridges were usually, repeat, usually not as inclined to rapid pressure spikes. The 6mmRem/100gr, 270/150, and 30-06/180 with slower powders would go right up to max listed loads with no pressure signs IN MY WEAPONS. Yours may be different, so go slow. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

March 30, 2007, 04:25 AM	#3
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Cold weather shooting. There are powders advertised to perform consistently over a wide range of temperatures. I am sure they are of value, but in subzero weather there are other factors at play. On more occasions than I care to count, I have hunted in subzero weather. One memorable hunt went 3 days at –44 to –38 degrees F. I have shot many game animals at temperature of -10 to -30 F, and have definitely noticed reduced velocity and reduced terminal performance of the bullets. Although I have a chronograph, I have never shot loads over it in subzero, because the wind was usually blowing at too much velocity. It is a physical fact that metal shrinks in cold temperatures (consider the old trick of removing stuck cases from loading dies by putting them in the freezer over night before extraction). I believe there are a number of factors at work at sub zero temps: primer ignition is lessened, powders have reduced power, barrels are slightly constricted and impede bullet speed, and bullet alloys ability to deform and glide down the barrels reduces speed. I am sure there are others. I base this not on scientific data, but on my personal observations and comparisons of the wound channels in lots of game taken at very low vs. moderate temps with a variety of cartridges. If you plan to do lots of cold weather shooting, I would suggest you work up loads at the bench in the weather in which you plan to hunt. And as an added bonus, you could let us know the results of your findings. Warm weather loads fired in cold temps and the differences of the loads you work up for cold weather. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

March 30, 2007, 08:36 PM	#4
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,415	If you use Magnum primers, instead of the called for small rifle, then make sure you check your load at the range, even if nothing was else changed and your old load was accurate. On some loads the different between Magnum and regular primers can be as much as 2 to 3 inches at a hundred yards. I first learned of this reloading for the .22 Hornet. I'm not enough of an engineer to explain why, I just know it's so.

March 30, 2007, 09:30 PM	#5
RERICK Junior member Join Date: July 9, 2005 Posts: 369	The only experience I've had with magnum primers in a rifle load has been certain .223 loads using H335 when they have called for it. That was in the Speer book. I have seen other .224 loads of the same weight bullets in other load books using H335 that did not call for a magnum primer though. I don't recall see others as the only rifle I load for at present is the .223 and 5.56. I would assume thats the way they developed and tested the load. I don't recall ever seeing a load using Varget calling for one though. I personally don't see why you would want too with Varget IMHO.

March 31, 2007, 03:23 AM	#6
moose fat Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Alaska, Yukon R. delta Posts: 381	Thank you for the replies. I am just begining to think seriously about reloading for .223 ($). I'm getting my ducks in a row, still need to get the dies for .223. I can't experiment too much as supplies are a frieght plane and haz-mat fee away for powder and primers. From what I have heard and read magnum primers are a component of cold weather loads, besides thats what I've got. I have been reloading for a month now and have a long way to go. I got some mill-surp rifles, 2A 7.62 and No.4Mk1 .303, that I have to reload for. I have been keeping records for every load. Where I live in Alaska we have a very long winter and so am interested in cold weather loads. I did some internet searches and couldn't find much "reloading for cold weather" -The U.S. Army has a cold weather round. - some shotgun stuff -Safari Intl. says use a belted magnum over 30 cal. -don't use ball powder The search is on!