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Old March 14, 2007, 10:10 AM   #1
Tadpole Starr
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Reloading for someone else

I reloaded a box (20) 30-06 shells for a friend. Is there exposier for a law suit if something goes wrong? He wants more, and another friend said "NO WAY"!! He is shooting a customized military rifle.

Should a guy have him put the bullets in, and seat them, making him responsible?

I use a SB (small base) RCBS die, and load a Federal primer, Remington 165 grain PSP Bullet, and 56.2 grains of IMR 4350. I also weigh each load. The shells are military Match brass.

Thanks for any Comments, Tad
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Old March 14, 2007, 10:47 AM   #2
Smokey Joe
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Reloading for others

Tadpole Starr--As far as the Federl Gummint is concerned, you are manufacturing ammunition when you reload for others, and need a special FFL just for that. UNLESS the other party supplies you with their brass, and you load that specific brass and give it back to them--Then you don't need the manufacturers' FFL. That's my understanding.

That said, of course you are open to being sued. Anyone can sue anyone else in this great land of ours, for any ill, real or imagined. (And, in this litigious society, a lot of people do!) The thing is, can you be SUCCESSFULLY sued. That comes down to, did you exercise due diligence and did you warn your friend of any and all dangers.

Every reloader has to decide about this "shall I load for friends" question for themself. Having the friend operate your equipment, under your direction, is one way to go. Still doesn't remove your liability completely.

Personally, I have reloaded only for 2 close friends, neither of whom would sue me--I believe. And since, have adopted a policy that I'll teach you to reload, on my equipment, so you can then get your own set-up and do it yourself. This last, cuts down marvellously on the number of people who want me to reload for them.

Most people who want you to reload for them are merely being lazy and cheap, and just want ammo of high quality at a very low price. If you make them go through all of what you go through to produce that ammo their interest drops 'way off.
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Old March 14, 2007, 11:01 AM   #3
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If you reload for others, whether it is with their components or not, you are manufacturing ammo. Like Smokey Joe says- tell them you will show them how and let them use your press. Most will balk, but some will take you up on it, and those people have potential to be shooting buddies.
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Old March 14, 2007, 12:45 PM   #4
temmi
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Yes you can be sued… and you have no real upside… When my twin brother ask me to reload for his 30-06… I said “ sure come on over we can do it together…” and I let him do most the work…
It is just not worth it …. You can be blamed for any problems…

I don’t do
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Old March 14, 2007, 01:43 PM   #5
Tadpole Starr
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Reloading for others

Thanks Guys, I won't do it, and will get my first 20 back. If he wants to do it, he can. The deal was that he has 10 boxes of Remington 308 Win. 180 grain Core Lokt shells that he would trade me for handloads. I will help him sell them, give him the money and he can buy 06 fodder for himself. If he wants the 20 back, he can come over and load them.

I appreciate your time and knowledge.

Keep tight lines, Tad
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Old March 14, 2007, 01:53 PM   #6
Abstract
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I wouldn't spend any time worrying about what the BATFE might think. They have much bigger fish to fry than a guy loading a few rounds for his buddy. I'd bet that such activity wouldn't even meet the BATFE criteria for requiring a manufacturer's license.

However, I would be concerned that something might happen to a friend who was using my reloads. On the other hand, when I'm out at the range, shooting my reloads, I don't hesitate to let folks shoot my firearms that are loaded with my reloads.
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Old March 14, 2007, 06:42 PM   #7
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If you reload for a buddy who "will never sue you" can you say as much for his heirs /survivors in the God-awful chance he dies.
Wanna bet you lose everything?
Money is a strange motivator, esp. 30 % to some shyster contingent lawyer and the visions of never working again to his survivors.
What do you think?
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Old March 14, 2007, 06:49 PM   #8
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I wouldn't do it. I would hate to have a friend have a kaboom from a round that I made and get hurt bad or die. I have confidence in my loads and am comfortable shooting them myself, I just wouldn't want to take the chance.
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Old March 14, 2007, 06:58 PM   #9
saands
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I also have complete confidence in my reloads and I let my family shoot them ... in the guns that the loads were worked up on. My real fear in loading for someone else is not that they'll get a double-charge or a squib, but that THEIR weapon will fire out of battery or something and kB! in the presence of my reloads. I'll be completely innocent yet guilty by association with the event. I don't like to loan tools for the same reason ... leaning on what someone else mentioned:

"some risk with zero upside = bad deal"

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Old March 14, 2007, 08:01 PM   #10
wild willy
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Smokey Joe you hit the nail on the head most people only want you to reload for them because they think its cheap they don't care how much time and energy you put into it Tell them to bring their empties and come to the house and you will show them how to do it very few show up
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Old March 14, 2007, 11:07 PM   #11
Dave Haven
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I don't reload for anyone but myself.
Although I do let friends and family members shoot my reloads in my guns.
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Old March 14, 2007, 11:46 PM   #12
Tadpole Starr
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Reloading for someone else

After looking at his gun closely, I took my shells back and am trying to get him to dispose of the 06. It is less than good in my opinion, and am going to try to get him to swap for a 308 Win. or another 06. There is rust, the bore is rough, and he told me that the seller told him that it is "LOOSE", and that it is a good thing. It will not jam if a bit dirty. LOL, He got took bad, years ago. I have the gun and will have a gun smith look at it.

I love the advice given, and will never load for anyone other than my Wife and self. All guns have had the loads designed for the each gun.

Thanks again very much.
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Old March 15, 2007, 09:58 AM   #13
cobra81
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It just isn't worth the risk

No matter how careful you are, and no matter how blameless you feel you are, if something bad happened (even if it was totally out of your control), it very likely will come down to how much $$ you have to defend yourself in a court of law.....and even then it will ultimately come down to what some judge or jury decides. And juries are humans.....good chance that some if not a lot of them are anti-gun, and after a huge sob story by a smart, persuasive attorney, you won't stand a chance of getting a fair verdict.

Trial attorneys make a very good living from things just like this. The smart way to protect yourself is to eliminate as much risk as you can, and loading for ANYBODY is only adding unnecessary risk with little or no reward.
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Old March 15, 2007, 11:19 AM   #14
arizona hunter
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Glad I read this post! I was going to reload some 30.06 for a friend, now I'll invite him over to do it himself, or he can shoot all factory stuff.
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Old March 15, 2007, 12:46 PM   #15
CCW
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Never, never do that.......

if something tragic were to happen.......you are liable....
would probably cost you your house and all else you may have....
not to mention how you would feel about the injury or worse to your friend...

Nope.....just cannot do it.
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Old March 15, 2007, 07:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Glad I read this post! I was going to reload some 30.06 for a friend, now I'll invite him over to do it himself, or he can shoot all factory stuff.
I think that is the best solution. You never know, you just might create another reloading junkie that can go in on bulk buys with you so you can get components cheaper. I don't have a problem with a friend or even someone from the forum coming over and learning how to reload or finding out if they like my press before they buy.
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Old March 16, 2007, 06:28 AM   #17
qajaq59
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In a word, NO.
But you can certainly get him started by buying him a good book on reloading. Books are soooo much cheaper then lawyers!
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Old March 16, 2007, 07:13 AM   #18
iowain45-70
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Reloading for someone else

no way
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Old March 17, 2007, 06:17 AM   #19
Toolman
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I have reloaded for a couple people that I trust using their brass, but I still make them sign this waiver.

"THIS IS RELOADED AND/OR HAND-LOADED AMMUNITION.
IT HAS BEEN LOADED ACCORDING TO SPECIFICATIONS AS PUBLISHED BY AMMUNITION COMPONENT MANUFACTURERS IN RELOADING MANUALS AND SHOULD ONLY BE USED IN FIREARMS THAT ARE IN GOOD CONDITION WITH MARKINGS EXACTLY MATCHING AMMUNITION.

BY USING THIS AMMUNITION I AGREE & AFFIRM THAT I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR AND I THEREBY HOLD __________________ HARMLESS, FOR ANY AND ALL DAMAGES, INJURY OR DEATH, WHATSOEVER."

Signed: _________________________________ Date:__________________
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Old March 17, 2007, 08:43 AM   #20
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The Security Company I work for started purchasing reloaded .38's for us to requalify.

I had a S&W 19, so the unexpected extra charge didn't effect my firearm.

Then the primers began to need a double hit due to what I found out later was poor seating.

I took 60 rounds (that is what we needed to qualify) home and disected them.

Powder charges were as much a 1 or 2 grns difference, unknown powder.

Primers were not fully seated, brass would wobble on the bench due to some of the primers sticking out so far.

I suggested that they start purchasing from a manufacturer, and they did.

They asked me the other day if I wanted to load some ammo for requalification, I told them NO! and reminded them of the previous trouble they had with another employee's reloads, they remembered and agreed.

I have shot my reloads in my firearms that they were loaded for, when requalifying but I won't use someone elses reloads nor thier firearm for my reloads.

A buddy of mine and me get together sometimes and buy bullets to split but we don't share reloads, we do share data.
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Old March 17, 2007, 02:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
"THIS IS RELOADED AND/OR HAND-LOADED AMMUNITION.
IT HAS BEEN LOADED ACCORDING TO SPECIFICATIONS AS PUBLISHED BY AMMUNITION COMPONENT MANUFACTURERS IN RELOADING MANUALS AND SHOULD ONLY BE USED IN FIREARMS THAT ARE IN GOOD CONDITION WITH MARKINGS EXACTLY MATCHING AMMUNITION.

BY USING THIS AMMUNITION I AGREE & AFFIRM THAT I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR AND I THEREBY HOLD __________________ HARMLESS, FOR ANY AND ALL DAMAGES, INJURY OR DEATH, WHATSOEVER."

Signed: _________________________________ Date:__________________
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Now, what you do is print this disclaimer on some toilet paper. That's all it's worth in a court case, a$$ wipe!

You could have a lawyer draw up a 20 page disclaimer, saying essentially the same thing, have your buddy sign it, YOU WILL STILL GET SUED!

A few of my best friends and I will shoot each others handloads. All of them know the risks, and potential problems. I also load hunting loads for my family, with 0 problems. I always use new, unprimed cases and quality bullets. I gave my brother a rockchucker for Christmas 30 years ago. It sits in his basement, unused. He gets his deer hunting loads from me.
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Old March 18, 2007, 09:44 AM   #22
Tadpole Starr
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The Disclaimer isn't the answer either

It will only keep a few from seeking the right atty. Snuffy is right! They will find a way around it for sure. Anyone can be sued for any reason. These threads have convinced me to not load for anyone, but like suggested, let them do it themselves. My friend is willing to learn. If not, he can buy his new shells.

I will not give him the reloads back, nor will I load for anyone other than my son. He can't sue me, cause it will be his some day anyway.

Thanks for the wonderful discussion, and I hope others will learn from it too. I see that at least one other guy has.

Tadpole
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Old March 18, 2007, 11:15 AM   #23
Double J
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Safest bet, and the most fun, is to teach someone else how to reload for themselves. When I was little, the whole family reloaded together. I started out with a simple Lee Loader Kit. It doesn't have to be expensive or complicated. I make and sell ammo from new components. I have reloaded for others, but I'll pitch anything that's questionable. Good insurance helps.
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Old March 19, 2007, 12:21 AM   #24
KW-Bane
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I will not reload for anyone but me. I don't care if God Himself inspected them...I would not do it!

Getting a friend started in a new hobby is much more fun than going to court.
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Old March 19, 2007, 07:44 PM   #25
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reloads

ditto from me.its a catastrify waiting to happen.commercial reloaders have a big insurance policy for this.I have a friend that is in the business.
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