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Old March 2, 2007, 02:53 PM   #1
Smokin Joe
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Natchez canceled my handgun ammo order !

just like I said it. I ordred handgun ammo, 10 boxes of various 38 special, 10 boxes of various 9mm luger, mostly CCI blazers...

Then lo and behold, they sent an email saying order was cancelled.

the lame excuse ?

Quote:
You have ordered products that we can no longer sell or ship to your state. Due to regualtions set forth by your state, we can no longer sell or ship slingshots, airguns, ammunition, stunguns, or magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds.

This order has been canceled.

Thanks,
Bob
www.Natchezss.com
1-800-251-7839

Thanks,
Bob
www.Natchezss.com
1-800-251-7839

Now how is it that I cant order ammo online, what has New York got to do with anything ? it makes no sense what so ever ! I got my permits and I'm over 21 and whatever.... WHY OH LORD WHY ?
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Old March 2, 2007, 03:10 PM   #2
parrothead2581
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Unfortunately, a lot of companies won't ship a lot of stuff to NY, NJ, etc.

Try here instead http://www.ammobank.com/index.html
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Old March 2, 2007, 04:04 PM   #3
Majic
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Thank your politicians for that one.
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Old March 2, 2007, 04:08 PM   #4
Smokin Joe
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but what law ? there is no law ! this is weird. I read alot of the laws for new york, mentions nothing about having to buy local...

what did the politictions do ?
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Old March 2, 2007, 04:15 PM   #5
Smokin Joe
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I just checked out ammobank ! WOW you NEED A BANK to order from them ! their prices are sky high
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Old March 2, 2007, 04:18 PM   #6
stanger04
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hey if you think they are tough then try living in cali. Just go to cabelas or bass pro
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Old March 2, 2007, 04:31 PM   #7
22-rimfire
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My best advice is to move to Pennsylvania and commute. Many companies will not ship to NYC. OR, if you have a friend in PA, have the order shipped there and pick it up when it is convenient.
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Old March 2, 2007, 04:33 PM   #8
DeathRodent
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Try sportsmansguide.com

I order handgun ammo from them - they deliver to my home in LA, Cal. but
I read where they wont deliver to some places.
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Old March 2, 2007, 04:36 PM   #9
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Right or Wrong, they have probably determined it is not worth their time to sort out all the different laws for each municipality in the State of New York, so they just quit shipping to the entire state. Less Liability.
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Old March 2, 2007, 08:31 PM   #10
Ocraknife
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Smokin' Joe, move on down to TN, you can buy all the ammo you want.
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Old March 2, 2007, 08:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
but what law ? there is no law ! this is weird. I read alot of the laws for new york, mentions nothing about having to buy local...

what did the politictions do ?
There may not be any laws against it, but, you have heard of NY suing out of state gun dealers haven't you? It's only a small step to ammo and accessories.
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Old March 2, 2007, 08:42 PM   #12
rr4406pak
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Just order from MidwayUSA!
Signed,
A fellow New Yorker.
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Old March 2, 2007, 10:09 PM   #13
Niantician
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The sportsmansguide will ship me ammo but not a pocket knife. I don't know why. I've ordered knives from cheaperthandirt.com
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Old March 3, 2007, 12:09 AM   #14
Smokin Joe
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MIDWAY USA wont ship to me either, I ordered ammo. the cart wont take it and says remove item before continuing and etc... I'm in the city... maybe thats why..
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Old March 3, 2007, 12:13 AM   #15
22-rimfire
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Looks like you need to move to a less "civilized" place. I know it sounds easy, but I know that a lot of you NYC folks don't own a car. Buy at gun shows.
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Old March 3, 2007, 12:15 AM   #16
parrothead2581
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Could you have it shipped to a friend outside of NYC, but billed to you?
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Old March 3, 2007, 02:23 AM   #17
Smokin Joe
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my only other place to ship is my sister's house in NJ.

where I dont know what the NJ laws are pretaining to ammo possession, I dont want my sister hauled away for having my UPS ground box full of all sorts of ammo while she isnt a shooter, hence no permits and etc...
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Old March 3, 2007, 02:27 AM   #18
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Hang in there Joe...

I got the same exact email myself from them.
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Old March 5, 2007, 02:21 PM   #19
rr4406pak
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OH, scratch my MidwayUSA idea, I did not know you were in NYC.
That definitely changes things.
I live in Upstate NY where mail ordering is not an issue.
I feel for you man!
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Old March 5, 2007, 05:03 PM   #20
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Unfortunately, a lot of companies won't ship a lot of stuff to NY, NJ, etc.

The problem is that certain vendors are are among the truly stupid, such as Makarov.com and Century.com, and obey non-existent laws. You would not believe the convoluted crap I got from Bloss as a rationale for not shipping to NJ.
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Old March 6, 2007, 02:47 PM   #21
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Buddy... I say MOVE, asap.. down here in FL we're kinda filling up with yankees anyhow
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Old December 19, 2008, 04:15 PM   #22
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New York City & State & Federal Laws

This just happened to a friend of mine in the city.

Here's my research on ammo laws for the City of New York as they apply to dealers and persons purchasing ammo. Basically there is nothing in the law that prevents the sale of ammo in-person or otherwise to properly licensed persons except for a minimum amount of due-diligence and the paperwork requirements are already handled by the Internet web site orders and e-mails.

Natchez already complies with the law and for a minimal amount of due-diligence there is no reason why they cannot continue to ship to the City of New York, unless they have another reason all together.

Laws

In case you are curious about the NYC, NYS, and US law regarding ammunition possession check out the files that I attached.

Below are the basic highlights and they only say that you are only able to possess ammunition if you are licensed and have a registered firearm for the caliber of ammunition that you possess. There is also a requirement for dealers to keep a record for all ammunition sales to persons, but these days that is accomplished by regular invoicing that every Internet company does these days.

The dealer also has to be shown proof of your license. I believe that when I originally got my license 4-years ago I sent Natchez a copy of my license before my first order and they might require you to do the same but it’s possible that this is not the case anymore after the big Bloomberg investigations where many state courts ruled that it was unlawful for NYC to investigate out of state dealers. Also, since the law states that this is a requirement of the dealer and not the person then it is not your responsibility to make the dealer keep records of your licensing. Additionally, since the NYC Administrative Code has no jurisdiction over a dealer based in Tennessee this requirement might be moot in the eyes of the law and not apply.

There is also a requirement for “the person transporting” the ammunition to notify the police commissioner in writing but to my understanding the UPS corporation is the “person” (in the eyes of corporate law) doing the transportation and since you do not do the transportation, you only receive the ammunition you are also not responsible for notifying the commissioner.

That’s all that I could find about ammunition transportation and I read nothing in the laws that I found that would prohibit me from ordering and receiving ammunition by shipment since I meet all the criteria of being licensed and having a registered firearm of the proper caliber for which I order ammunition. I cannot transport the ammunition on a regular basis for delivery to someone else or sell it since that is restricted to dealers but I am ordering for personal usage in practice and competition and only receiving it.

One other thing is that the US Postal Service does not ship ammunition but private carriers like UPS and FedEx can and do by ground. They might also do it by air but I know that they don’t send primers or gun powder by air due to hazard rules. Also all ammunition or related boxes are stickered or labeled with the ORM-D (Consumer Commodity) notice and Natchez ships the ammo in their manufacturer’s case with all the advertising labels and big signs that there is ammunition inside, the caliber, etc but there is no hazard fee for ordering ammunition, only live explosives like primers and gun powder.

That’s about it that I could find in the laws about ammunition and from my understanding of it and referencing all the sections and paragraphs to each other but the final decision is yours based on the research and reading that you do into the law.

NEW YORK CITY
ADMINISTRATIVE CODE

TITLE 10 - Public Safety
CHAPTER 3 - Firearms


SECTION 10-301 - Control and regulation of the disposition, purchase and possession of firearms, rifles, shotguns and assault weapons. Definitions. Whenever used in this chapter the following terms shall mean and include:

(7) "Ammunition." - Explosives suitable to be fired from a firearm, machine gun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, assault weapon or other dangerous weapon.

SECTION 10-306 - Disposition, purchase and possession of ammunition and ammunition feeding devices.

(c) No ammunition suitable for use in a rifle of any caliber or for any shotgun or ammunition feeding device which is designed for use in a rifle or shotgun and which is capable of holding no more than five rounds of rifle or shotgun ammunition shall be disposed of to any person who has not been issued a rifle and shotgun permit and a certificate of registration and who does not exhibit same to the dealer at the time of the purchase. In no event shall rifle or shotgun ammunition be disposed of to or possessed by any such person except for a shotgun, or for the specific caliber of rifle, for which the certificate of registration has been issued. No ammunition feeding device which is designed for use in a rifle or shotgun and which is capable of holding more than five rounds of rifle or shotgun ammunition shall be disposed of by a dealer in rifles and shotguns to any person who does not exhibit proof that he or she is exempt from subdivision a of section 10-303.1 pursuant to section 10-305.

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person who is required to have a permit in order to possess a rifle or shotgun and who has not been issued such permit to possess rifle or shotgun ammunition or an ammunition feeding device which is designed for use in a rifle or shotgun.

(e) A record shall be kept by the dealer of each disposition of ammunition or ammunition feeding devices under this section which shall show the type, caliber and quantity of ammunition or ammunition feeding devices disposed of, the name and address of the person receiving same, the date and time of the transaction, and the number of the permit and certificate exhibited or description of the proof of exemption exhibited as required by this section.

(g) Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, any person authorized to possess a pistol or revolver within the city of New York may possess ammunition suitable for use in such pistol or revolver and a dealer in firearms or dealer in rifles and shotguns may dispose of such ammunition to such person pursuant to subdivision (i) of section 10-131.


NEW YORK CITY
ADMINISTRATIVE CODE

TITLE 10 - Public Safety
CHAPTER 1 - Public Safety


SECTION 10-131 - Firearms.

(i)

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person, except as otherwise authorized pursuant to law, to dispose of any ammunition or any ammunition feeding device, as defined in section 10-301, designed for use in a firearm, rifle or shotgun, unless he or she is a dealer in firearms or a dealer in rifles and shotguns and such disposition is in accordance with law, provided that a person in lawful possession of such ammunition or ammunition feeding device may dispose of such ammunition or ammunition feeding device to a dealer in firearms who is authorized, or a dealer in rifles and shotguns who is authorized, to possess such ammunition or ammunition feeding device.

(2) It shall be unlawful for any dealer in firearms or dealer in rifles and shotguns to dispose of any pistol or revolver ammunition of a particular caliber to any person not authorized to possess a pistol or revolver of such caliber within the city of New York.

(3) It shall be unlawful for any person not authorized to possess a pistol or revolver within the city of New York to possess pistol or revolver ammunition, provided that a dealer in rifles and shotguns may possess such ammunition.

(4) It shall be unlawful for any person authorized to possess a pistol or revolver of a particular caliber within the city of New York to possess pistol or revolver ammunition of a different caliber.

(5) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs two, three and four of this subdivision, any person authorized to possess a rifle within the city of New York may possess ammunition suitable for use in such rifle and a dealer in firearms or dealer in rifles and shotguns may dispose of such ammunition to such person pursuant to section 10-306.

(9) The regular and ordinary transport of ammunition or ammunition feeding devices as merchandise shall not be limited by this subdivision, provided that the person transporting such ammunition or ammunition feeding devices, where he or she knows or has reasonable means of ascertaining what he or she is transporting, notifies, in writing, the police commissioner of the name and address of the consignee and the place of delivery and withholds delivery to the consignee for such reasonable period of time designated in writing by the police commissioner as the police commissioner may deem necessary for investigation as to whether the consignee may lawfully receive and possess such ammunition or ammunition feeding devices.

(12) No pistol or revolver ammunition or ammunition feeding device shall be disposed of to any person pursuant to this subdivision unless such person exhibits the license or permit authorizing him or her to possess a pistol or revolver within the city of New York or exhibits proof that he or she is exempt pursuant to section 265.20 of the penal law from provisions of the penal law relating to possession of a firearm and proof that he or she is authorized pursuant to any provision of law to possess a pistol or revolver within the city of New York without a license or permit therefor.

(13) A record shall be kept by the dealer of each disposition of ammunition or ammunition feeding devices under this subdivision which shall show the quantity, caliber and type of ammunition or ammunition feeding devices disposed of, the name and address of the person receiving same, the date and time of the transaction, and the number of the license or permit exhibited or description of the proof of status as a person not required to have a license or permit as required by paragraph twelve of this subdivision.

(14) Any person who shall violate this subdivision shall be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment not exceeding one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(15) Any person who shall violate this subdivision shall be liable for a civil penalty of not more than one thousand dollars, to be recovered in a civil action brought by the corporation counsel in the name of the city in any court of competent jurisdiction.


I found a new source for the NYC laws that can be linked to directly from the NYLP.com web site. The Legislature web site cannot be used to link directly into the sections of the laws since the URL for the final sections includes a "TOKEN=12345678" session based value that cannot be reused and with an invalid or missing value you get the "wait 10 seconds" error message.

But luckily the two sites below can be searched for terms such as "firearm" or "ammunition" to get a listing of all pertaining laws. The NYLP site including Rules of the City of New York - Title 38 which is hard to come by other than through the NYC's Licensing web site PDF that is outdated from 2001 last I checked.

Sites

New York Legal Publishing Corporation - Public Service Portal
New York State Legislature - Laws

Laws

City - New York City

New York City - Rules - Title 38: Police Department

Chapter 1: Dealers In Rifles and Shotguns
Chapter 2: Organizations Possessing Rifles and Shotguns
Chapter 3: Rifle/shotgun Permits
Chapter 4: Gunsmiths and Dealers in Firearms
Chapter 5: Handgun Licenses
Chapter 16: Transport Or Delivery of Weapons
Chapter 17: Prohibited Assault Weapons


New York City - Administrative Code - Title 10 - Chapter 1 - Section 31: Firearms

New York City - Administrative Code - Title 10 - Chapter 3: Firearms

State - New York

New York State - Consolidated Laws - Penal Law, Part 3, Title P (Chapter 40) - Article 265 - Firearms And Other Dangerous Weapons (Link not direct, follow full name to reach section)

New York State - Consolidated Laws - Penal Law, Part 4, Title W (Chapter 40) - Article 400 - Licensing And Other Provisions Relating To Firearms (Link not direct, follow full name to reach section)

Federal - United States

United States Code - Title 18 (Crimes And Criminal Procedure) - Part 1 (Crimes) - Chapter 44: Firearms

United States Code - Title 26 (Internal Revenue Code) - Subtitle E (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Certain Other Excise Taxes) - Chapter 53: Machine Guns, Destructive Devices, and Certain Other Firearms
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Old December 19, 2008, 04:31 PM   #23
moga
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Because of Bloomberg's straw purchases in VA, GA, and else where, even people that live in "free" states can no longer get ammo without first sending in a driver's license. Everyone's frightened about Bloomy the Commie running them out of business using NYS taxpayer money, irrespective of the destination of the order. You don't really think that anyone is going to send ammo right to his back yard, do you?

Do tell how you managed to get a carry license in NYC. Your the first person that I've ever heard of that actually has the all elusive NYC carry permit.
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Old December 19, 2008, 05:14 PM   #24
Don H
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Quote:
even people that live in "free" states can no longer get ammo without first sending in a driver's license.
Not true. I received 1,000 rounds of .223 from a well-known online source last month without sending a copy of my driver's license OR signing for the ammo when delivered by UPS.
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Old December 25, 2008, 01:52 AM   #25
jg0001
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To an above poster living in NY and thinking of sending stuff to a relative in NJ... don't do it. I believe NJ passed a law this year regarding ammo requiring a Firearms Purchaser Permit card... you don't want to get anyone in trouble. [I read this in the latest NRA mag.]
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