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Old May 17, 2007, 11:55 AM   #76
Capt Charlie
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Agreed Denny.

There's been a long held tradition at TFL: "Attack the post, not the poster". When we're divided on an issue, it works very well at helping the RKBA community remain cohesive.

Seems to me, the same should apply to Zumbo .

As to his sincerity? The truth almost always comes out over time. It would be in our best interests to reserve judgment, sit back, and watch. Unless he screws up again, he should be given the benefit of the doubt.
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Old May 17, 2007, 06:57 PM   #77
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In my opinion, the folks that feel no forgiveness for Mr. Zumbo are people that never knew he existed in the first place. Those that did not know him, can just continue on their chosen path as before. I read Outdoor Life personally and have for many years although I had a lapse when I moved to the city and stopped hunting for a while. Life was mostly about work and photography back then, not hunting and not guns. But the interest never went away, just in the doing. That has changed now.
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Old May 17, 2007, 08:33 PM   #78
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Forgive me, I did not read this entire thread so it may have been stated but, Zumbo got canned over this, right? Or did they give him a 2nd chance? Whats he doing now?
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Old May 17, 2007, 09:01 PM   #79
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Denny,
And I, for one, don't care where he camps.
Denis
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Old May 18, 2007, 04:25 PM   #80
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Leave the poor boy alone. Its over.
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Old June 7, 2007, 03:08 AM   #81
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It took years for the man to build his reputation before he lost it through talking about his areas of ignorance.

I won't attack him now. But I won't accept his mea culpa as making everything forgiven and forgotten either.

Actions not words and the prospect of years of effort to restore his reputation.

I'm a hunter and a shooter. Been known to scare the occasional clay pigeon as well as shoot a duck now and again. I've used a pistol to defend my life. I'm a gun guy. To a point. I guarantee there are many more guns of which I know absolutely nothing than guns of which I am knowledgeable.

But you won't find me pontificating about those guns either. Not in public. Not in private. Not drunk. Not sober.
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Old June 7, 2007, 03:06 PM   #82
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Just FYI, found out yesterday that those of you who know where to find it (I don't) will apparently be seeing Zumbo's show again, but they'll be canned shows that were taped before the debacle, and Remington will not be sponsoring them.
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Old June 28, 2007, 01:48 PM   #83
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August Issue- Black Rifle Blues- The Re Education of Jim Zumbo

The August issue is out, and has Jim Zumbo's article. Like what you see/ read or not, the man stepped up to the plate and did what many others would not.

The centerfold is terrific and it portrays exactly what we wanted.
Of course i made that picture, so there is a fair amount of bias involved..
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Old July 2, 2007, 07:03 PM   #84
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Pat, I received the latest issue in the mail this afternoon, and I just finished reading Jim's article. I am suprised to say the least.

First off, my thanks to Jim Zumbo for making a mistake, being man enough to admit it, and then doing something to correct it. Well done, sir. Everyone on earth screws up, but very few people anymore will admit to it, much less work their butts off to change things for the better. Funny how life can change so fast, and how so called friends can change even faster. I'm sorry that these things happened to you, and I hope that much success will come your way in spite of all this desparity.

To Denny and Pat, my thanks to you guys for doing the right thing. I'm really at a loss for what to say here. I'm really impressed by the amount of decency and good will shown, and that in itself is sad in how rare it is to see someone stand by a guy that is not Mr. popularity.

To everyone that thinks that Jim Zumbo should be drawn and quartered...be thankful that God gives second chances, and third and fourth and...because you will need them yourself, I promise.

There is hope after all...

Best regards,

Clayton Hufford
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Old July 3, 2007, 04:49 AM   #85
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Thanks for the kind words. We felt strongly about this and are hopeful that we can bring at least some people together in a fight against the common enemy.
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Old July 3, 2007, 06:28 AM   #86
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Hey Jim!!!

I read your article yesterday evening. Welcome back!! Denny, Pat, Rich and everyone else, thanks for helping to guide him home.

Jim, if you're ever down Raleigh, North Carolina way, the first draft is on me.
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Old July 3, 2007, 08:28 PM   #87
Ed Lawrence
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This is very frustrating. Not because of Zumbo, but because I have not received my issue in the mail yet.
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Old July 4, 2007, 10:06 AM   #88
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I read the article and thought it was an excellent effort. Well done, SWAT and Pat!

It is a step in the right direction to make the point that the different branches of the gun world need to appreciate each other.

The thing that amuses me most is that Ted Nugent is the 'Jesse Jackson' of the gun world. Do an Imus or Kramer in the gun context and go and get forgiveness from Ted.

Gun Rehab with Nugent! I used that line at the NTI when I gave a talk there, got a laugh!

To be serious, I think Zumbo had a serious rethinking and that's to the good.
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Old July 4, 2007, 05:24 PM   #89
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It is indeed a very good article. My hat's off to Mr. Zumbo for stepping up & taking the class. A lot of folks wouldn't have been bothered, and he showed a lot of class in his efforts.

Well done!
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Old July 7, 2007, 08:52 PM   #90
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I dont post alot here, but I am a quiet gun enthusiest. I think it was great to offer up the invitation to Zumbo and for him to accept. I read the article just the other night when recieved in the mail and thought it was a great write up on his behalf. It just goes to show everyone what a little education can do for a person to open up there eyes to what the world has to offer them regardless of what side of the tracks your from. Great Job to those of you who made it happen.
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Old July 7, 2007, 09:53 PM   #91
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So if I make an anti-gun post today, appologize tommorow, get myself educated, All will be forgiven ?
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Old July 7, 2007, 11:24 PM   #92
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So if I make an anti-gun post today, appologize tommorow, get myself educated, All will be forgiven ?
Post made out of ignorance? Apology sincere? No true malice intended?

All answers yes?

Yes.
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Old July 8, 2007, 04:26 PM   #93
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Mr. Zumbo stated that his blog didn't have many readers. Was that statement to indicate his statements were intended to provoke increased viewership? Also, has he ever clarified whether he was warned (as Remington's CEO apparently has asserted) not to post the derogatory comments on his blog?
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Old July 8, 2007, 07:42 PM   #94
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I don't have the answer to either of your questions, Buzz. Sorry.

Denny
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Old July 9, 2007, 03:28 AM   #95
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I read the swat mag article and am happy to see that JZ has come around to the dark black side,. now to train the rest of the fudds.
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Old July 10, 2007, 02:16 AM   #96
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I was channel surfing very late one night last weekend and noticed "Jim Zumbo Outdoors" on the Outdoor Channel. I knew his show had been pulled earlier this year shortly after his negative comments, so I clicked on it and it was a preview of his new season. In one scene he was shooting the "dark side rifles" and it wasn't the take from Ted Nugent's show where Mr. Spirit had him shooting an AR type rifle. I guess Mr. Zumbo has been given a second chance.

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Old July 12, 2007, 12:56 AM   #97
Ed Lawrence
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What impressed me most about Dumbo's article was the fact that he was so forthcoming in a way I would not expect a man of his generation to be. He admitted the whole reaction to his blog and the turns it took in his life had him so upset that he was on anti-anxiety meds.

He was also honest about he felt in the class--that he felt like quitting halfway through the first day. I think some of us have had days like that, and we are more used to that type of training than Zumbo. He also confessed that he found following the directions to the drills in class difficult.

He really laid it all out--from the devastation the comments caused in his life to his awkwardness and difficulty in completing Pat Roger's class. And for that and I have to give him credit.
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Old July 12, 2007, 01:24 AM   #98
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"I suspect that he's not your typical 67 y/o duffer."

I hope this isn't too much off the subject, but this concept is a sore spot with me.

I'm 57 years old. I'm retired from my 'adult' job and now run my own business. I still ride Harleys, as I have for over four decades. I'm an old club member. This morning I broke a personal best at the gym doing a bench press.

Having said that, I have strong opinions about bikes, knives guns and politics. People claim they always want to hear the truth--that is, until you actually offer an opinion. And I've heard this many times...

"Don't preach to me. I don't want to be lectured!"

Well, folks, in keeping with this topic, I remember the first AR style rifles. They are not the same rifle you know today, and frankly, I surprised the rifle is still around.

While I have never been a soldier, I remember when the rifle first came out. It was the outgrowth of a test project using alloy barrels for the .308 catridge. While that project had failed, designers thought a lighter cartridge might work. There had been interest in the .222 Magnum varmint cartridge.

However, the rifle they were designing was not for general use--but as an emergency rifle for pilots should they need to ditch. The varmint catridges of the day used 'rod' or 'stick' powder to maximize FPS in turnbolt rifles. They gummed up automatic rifles.

The rifle design killed soldiers, brought about receiver changes, necessitated cartridge loading with 'ball' powder and even started rumors that parts were made from the Mattel Toy Company.

But I say this, the first black rifle is a far cry from the heavy barreled varmint flat-top rifle I own today for prairie dogs.

The issue becomes do you really want to know how things evolved, or do you simply want to cruxify the old guy who remembers? Do you wish to stifle a legitimate debate on news you don't want to hear by shifting the debate to a personal attack?

I don't know this man you're referring to. I do know the type of man who still out-performs younger guys, speaks as he sees events and doesn't really much care how the populace remembers him. It appears modern forums have to vilify holders of opposing viewpoints.

I had one idiot in a forum call me a poser because he thought old motorcycle club members could not possibly grow up to be credit managers in finance. Since I did not fit the mold, then obviously he was right.

In Wisconsin many people hunt deer with an AR. I know several smaller women who hunt deer by borrowing the 22-250 rifle their husbands use for South Dakota varmint hunts. I've owned five Stoner designed rifles.

But I won't hunt deer with an AR. I don't feel it's the proper rifle for me. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else who has another rifle at their disposal.

I feel an AR was designed for other things. You are, however, invited to join me at the gym and I promise I won't let heavy weights fall on you.
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Old July 13, 2007, 02:26 PM   #99
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Quote:
I don't have the answer to either of your questions, Buzz. Sorry.
I understand, Denny. I just hope to see an interview with Zumbo someday that covers those topics. It might go a long way to putting things truly to rest.
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Old August 5, 2007, 03:25 PM   #100
Al Norris
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I've remained (mostly) silent on this issue (the Jim Zumbo debacle) for several reasons. Not the least of which is that I hadn't until today had the chance to read Jim's article in S.W.A.T. Magazine.

I've read the debates here at The Firing Line, at The High Road and at Brother Ted's site. My opinion hasn't changed. Jim, having been educated (finally and under duress) in other forms of "gun play," can be a huge force for gun rights. Jim expressed it best in these words:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Zumbo
My mistake was tumultuous - an error of the highest order. I had engaged my mouth (or fingers on the keyboard) before engaging my brain.
Simple advice: Think Twice, Post Once. If you're any kind of regular on The Firing Line, you've heard that phrase, probably more than you care to remember.

Yet by Jim saying this, it shows that he knows exactly what he did and exactly how wrong it was. I'm not any kind of a mind reader, so how do I know this? From something else Jim wrote, just prior to the above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Zumbo
I didn't understand black rifles or the people who shoot them before February 16 - but I do now. They're the salt of the earth.
Salt of the earth. Simple, ordinary, everyday people. Enjoying a love of guns, gun ownership, and a type of gun sport he had never ever considered before the debacle.

In that simple phrase, lays all the regret of a professional hunter and writer who has had his blinders removed and now sees a world, wholly different from the one he had always seen before.

Of course, the question remains: Has Jim changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Zumbo
I can say, however, that the class was very entertaining and was one of the greatest events of my life.
Not his hunts. Not his TV show. Not his blunder... But a simple tactical rifle class filled with normal everyday people. The salt of the earth.
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