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Old December 26, 2010, 01:23 PM   #1
rem1858
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Guess what Mrs. Claus got me.

You know that I was asking about the differences in Colt Walkers earlier.

Well, there it was under the tree.

Yep, an Uberti Colt Walker.

I was truley shocked and yet kind of hoping she did not pay too much for it since I have been price checking on the internet(things have been kind of tight this year especially with the kids and grand kids to take care of first).

She got it from Cabelas and used one of their post card coupons for employer pricing. $449. actual, but $383. with the coupon.(not too bad in my book).
All is good and I am one happy camper.

A few questions to the experts now since I have this nice hand cannon.

Just how far do you push the wedge in(I am thinking just decent thumb pressure ?) I saw a guy on a video smack it in with the heel of his palm, is that to much or just right ? I do not want to over do it and wear it out any quicker than I have to.

I am sure the .454" balls will be fine.

I picked up some Pyrodex P cause no one around here seems to carry real black powder.
And I dont know that I want to use 2 of those 30gr pellets that I use in the 1858(I of coarse only use one pellet in the 1858).

I have a scale of coarse, been reloading metallic cartriges for years.
What would be the max load in grains on a scale using Pyrodex P ?

Can someone give me a distributor and part number for a nipple wrench to fit the Walker.
The one I made for my 1858 out of an old socket wont work.
I just want to get the correct one.

Thanks everyone for any suggestions.

Hope you all had a great Christmas.

Clarence
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Old December 26, 2010, 06:04 PM   #2
mykeal
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Congratulations on your Walker. You'll have many hours of fun with it.

Quote:
Just how far do you push the wedge in(I am thinking just decent thumb pressure ?
Thumb pressure should do just fine. The real answer is: far enough that it stays in but not so far that it causes the cylinder to bind against the barrel. A good goal to shoot for is 0.006" clearance between the front of the cylinder and the forcing cone. But it's really not worth actually measuring it, just eyeball it.

Quote:
I am sure the .454" balls will be fine.
Very probably. I use .457's, but many folks use .454's. Look for a thin circle of lead to be shaved off as the ball is swaged into the chamber.

Quote:
I picked up some Pyrodex P cause no one around here seems to carry real black powder.
And I dont know that I want to use 2 of those 30gr pellets that I use in the 1858(I of coarse only use one pellet in the 1858).
I strongly recommend you not use pellets in a revolver. They're very inconsistent in that application. If you can't get real black powder (Powder, Inc. has a web site and sells it mail order in 5 lb minimum orders) use loose Pyrodex or even loose 777.

Quote:
What would be the max load in grains on a scale using Pyrodex P ?
The gun can handle all the powder you can stuff in and still get the ball in. That will be about 60 grains by VOLUME. Pyrodex P is less dense than real black powder, so if you weigh it you'll find 60 grains by weight will be too much - it won't all fit in. I'll look up the conversion later tonight and see if I can estimate what the Pyrodex P weight equivalent of 60 grains by volume.

Quote:
Can someone give me a distributor and part number for a nipple wrench to fit the Walker.
Track of the Wolf, part number NW-WALKER
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Old December 26, 2010, 06:17 PM   #3
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That is great on your Walker!

Though I am a bit confused about your relationship with Mrs. Claus. Her husband's name is Kris, not Clarence. Unless you are a nephew or maybe saved Christmas one year for Kris, I am lost for an explanation as to why MRS. Claus would be giving you such a nice, personal gift...and she seemed to give it to you while her husband was away on business.

Me thinks you may find your house buried in coal next year if Kris finds out!
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Old December 26, 2010, 06:18 PM   #4
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This is a repro of the Walker nipple wrench/vise/screwdriver, and a pic of how it was used. From what I read, they weren't popular as mainspring vises.
Cabelas sells them and I'm sure Dixie Gunworks, Midway, etc. do, too.
I use the mainspring vise in the 3rd pic, but other shooters use visegrips with leather, plastic ties or just your hand.
Remember, the wedge enters from the opposite side compared to other Colts.
I use 45 - 50 grs of black powder, .454 balls, #11 caps, and it's a crowd pleaser.
http://www.cabelas.com/black-powder-...:referralID=NA



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Old December 26, 2010, 08:35 PM   #5
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Thanks for the input guys.

I was doing some research and found a guy that posted a 20% difference between BP and Pyro P.

30gr BP = 24gr Pyro P
60gr BP = 48gr Pyro P
and so on.

Does this sound about right ?

I have no real BP to do my own volume/ weight measures.

Will order the nipple wrench and need to debur a couple places here and there on the frame.
The wood grips have some nice figure in them.

I like the grips and trigger guard better than the 1858.

I shoot one handed cause I am used to that from been shooting bullseye for a couple years.

The 1858, I hold lower on the grip(the pinky finger is below the grip).
The Walker I can most likely shoot with the whole hand on the grip.

Looks like the CCI #10's will fit if I push them on with my wooden dowel that I use for the 1858.

Hopefully will take her out this weekend for a trial run.

Clarence
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Last edited by rem1858; December 26, 2010 at 08:48 PM.
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Old December 27, 2010, 09:31 PM   #6
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Well today I took the Walker to work and made my own nipple wrench out of a 7/32" deep 1/4" drive socket.

I am an automotive technician by trade, so I have the resources to make things.

Cleaned the cylinder and nipple threads of the packing oil.
Blew out and brushed everything with compressed air and an old toothbrush.

You would be surprised at all the metal shavings and gunk there is in a new pistol out of the box.

Need to do some fine filing on some areas to get rid of some metal flashing that is rubbing on the hammer and such.

Plan on takeing it out this weekend and settled on 45gr of Pyro P to fire the first shots with.

Clarence
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Old December 27, 2010, 09:48 PM   #7
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Pyro is a straight across sub for bp volume wise. Triple 7 is 20% hotter.
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Old December 27, 2010, 10:08 PM   #8
rem1858
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Hawg;

I may be a little paranoid, but are you sure ?
I would hate to blow it up on the first shot

No matter what I look up on Pyro P, there is just not enough information for loads to be safe.

What really caught my eye was a fellow loaded 2 of those 30gr P pellets in his Walker and messed it up.

Maybe it was just the pellets compared to loose powder, but it makes me think about it...(60gr of pellets compared to 60gr of loose powder).

I will start at 45gr and work up(just using my experience with mettalic loading of starting with charges 10% ish lower than max.

I thank you for the information, but I am going to play it safe and get back to you all on my experiences with the pistol and loads.

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Old December 28, 2010, 04:30 AM   #9
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Yeah I'm sure but be as safe as you feel you need to be. I don't see how two pellets screwed up a Walker unless he had an air space. I've used 40 grs. of Pyro in 58 Remingtons before.
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Old December 28, 2010, 02:50 PM   #10
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Congrads on the Walker rem1858 ... Remember that Max 60 grains is by Volume not by weight straight across with Black Powder and Pyrodex ... don't try measuring it by weight or it will be off. All measurements compared to Black Powder are by Volume only... with the exception of Tripple 7 and it's to be loaded 15% less that Black Powder by Volume.
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Old December 28, 2010, 06:14 PM   #11
rem1858
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Thanks guys;

In post #5 above
From the information that was posted by someone.

30gr by volume of BP = 24gr by weight of Pyro P
60gr by volume of BP = 48gr by weight of Pyro P

This is what I am wanting to confirm.

Clarence
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Old December 28, 2010, 06:20 PM   #12
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Why do you want to measure by weight? Especially when it's a straight across weight by volume.
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Old December 28, 2010, 07:32 PM   #13
rem1858
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Hawg;

Cause I am new to BP and do not have a clue what the hell volume is in reloading

I have been reloading metalic rifle and pistol cartriges and shotgun shells for 25 years and have only ever weighed my charges.

This volume thing scares me
Yah, I know, I am just a big sissy...

Clarence
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Old December 28, 2010, 07:45 PM   #14
Hawg
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Quote:
This volume thing scares me
Yah, I know, I am just a big sissy...
Nah, not a sissy. Pyro is going to be difficult to meter. Just get an adjustable black powder measure. It will measure volumetrically. I use one of these from Thompson Center. They don't make them out of brass anymore but they do still make them.

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Old December 28, 2010, 07:53 PM   #15
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Congrats on your new Walker!

Yup, you should invest in a volumetric measure if you plan to shoot BP or BP substitutes. You may weigh real BP if you wish. Theoretically, the weight and volume measurement of real BP is the same. However, in the real world it will be slightly different but not different enough to make a difference...if you know what I mean.

BP substitutes such as Pyrodex and 777 MUST always be measured by volume. As previously pointed out, Pyrodex is one-to-one on par with BP when measured by volume. 777 loads should always be reduced by 15% in order to give you a close approximation of the equivalent BP or Pyrodex load since 777 is more powerful than real BP.

Get yourself a volumetric powder measure such as the Thompson Center U-view measure.
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Old December 28, 2010, 08:58 PM   #16
rem1858
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Thanks for the help, I know that I am going to be a pain in the butt with this next question...

I just went by the chart that I posted with BP volume = Pyro P weight.

I weighed out 48gr of Pyro P.
Dumped it in the Walker cylinder.
Did this to all 6 cylinders for uniformity.

The powder level with 48gr of Pyro P is about 1mm below the cylinder mouth.

If that is right for volume in BP for the Walker, then I will cut a Lee dipper that I have, to throw volume until I can pick up one of those volume measures.

Am I on the right track ?

Thanks guys for putting up with my newbie questions to BP.

Clarence
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Old December 28, 2010, 09:49 PM   #17
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Oy vey Clarence!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemBert
BP substitutes such as Pyrodex and 777 MUST always be measured by volume.
Do NOT weigh Pyrodex. Period. The granularity of Pyrodex in not the same as BP.

Just as a point of reference, you should know that a Walker will hold near 60 grains of BP and allow you to stuff a ball in there as the powder gets compressed.
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Old December 28, 2010, 09:50 PM   #18
rem1858
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Did some weighing and measuring.

I wanted to start with 45gr Pyro P.

A Lee 3.4cc dipper throws 40gr
a Lee .5cc throws 5gr

So a volume throw of one of each gives me my 45gr Pyro P starting load.
Which by the chart would be equal to 55gr BP ?

Will give that a whirl this weekend, unless someone stops me

I wish someone here could throw a 60gr volume charge of Pyro P and tell me how much it weighs...

Riddle me this.
If a Walker cylinder can hold 60gr of BP and I just filled a cylinder with Pyro P that weighs 48gr. then I have a base line for volume ?

I know, I am a picky SOB

Clarence
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Last edited by rem1858; December 28, 2010 at 10:01 PM.
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Old December 29, 2010, 12:08 AM   #19
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Pyro will compress a LOT. You can pretty much fill any chamber and the ball will just compress to fit... With Black Powder the ball will not fit if you do this because your loading rod will bend or break before you get the ball flush.

But I sure would NOT do this to any gun you like... I really wore out my Walker Uberti with large loads in a hurry. I ended up finding that 35gr of 3fff was the best load for it anyway.

I just checked and "my" 60gr volume measure threw a (scale measured weight) around 58gr of 3fff GoexBP and 44gr of Pyro "P".... I don't think you will want to feed your new pistol a steady diet of anything close to this. Also the loading rod will usually drop down after every shot if you use the "magnum" charges ... this alone is so ANNOYING that the lighter charges will be much more appealing after a few cylinders...LOL

Just an option...but a 45 Colt case holdes a volume of Black Powder that weighs around 40grs... so an empty 45colt case will work well as a measure and they are pretty easy to come by.

One of the scariest things I have ever seen or heard of, is the use of the wood dowel to seat caps!!!! This is a total hazard thought up by the warning label generation! I did see a picture of a guy that about blew his thumb apart from thumb seating

All the old timers were taught and teach to "Hammer Seat" caps by cycling the action of the pistol and applying pressure with your palm or thumb to the hammer on every cap... this way if a cap does pop at least you have the gun held proper and the ball will go down the barrel...As long as you always have the muzzle pointed in a safe direction (which you should) there will be no problems... If a cap pops with the dowel method the ball will go down the side of the barrel (well, at least most of the ball) and most guys will be craddleing the revolver in there palm.

Hope this helps and Have Fun!!
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Old December 29, 2010, 02:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
One of the scariest things I have ever seen or heard of, is the use of the wood dowel to seat caps!!!
Caps are not pressure sensitive.You cannot set a cap off with pressure. I've tried to set one off with pressure and couldn't do it. As far as the guy setting one off with his thumb I'm sure there's more to the story than he's telling.
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Old December 29, 2010, 11:24 AM   #21
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Rem1858,

Quote:
I wish someone here could throw a 60gr volume charge of Pyro P and tell me how much it weighs...
OK, I did what you asked and here's the dope...

60 grain volume of 3f BP WEIGHS 58.2 grains
60 grain volume of Pyrodex P WEIGHS 40.5 grains

I hope this helps you out.

Last edited by junkman_01; December 29, 2010 at 02:15 PM.
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Old December 29, 2010, 04:28 PM   #22
rem1858
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Thanks guys, that really helps me out to get my baseline.

Looks like now, I will go with the Lee 3.4cc dipper that measures 40gr by weight of Pyro P.
Will just throw 40gr instead of 45gr that I initially thought about.
Run a few cylinders of that and see how I like it, or I should say, the gun likes it.

Now I hope the weather is better this weekend so I can shoot it.
Been raining here most of the day.

Again, thanks everyone for your help.

Clarence
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Old December 30, 2010, 11:09 AM   #23
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You well soon reach a point that you well just eyeball the charge. Having 5-8grs different between charges is hardly noticeable.
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Old December 31, 2010, 09:17 AM   #24
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Yikes....

Rem you really need to listen to the words of wisdom here. There is only one method of measure in this BP world, getting the right measure from the store is as just as important as the correct ball.

Going through all of this weighing and comparing is just opening yourself up for a problem, imo. And confusing the heck out of yourself.

Part of the fun is learning, and then doing it right, and expanding your knowledge of it. Just like you did when you were learning metallic.

The safest is the measured load, yup you will be able to eyeball it AFTER you get familiar. The Colt 45 case is a great suggestion....old one, and absolutely safe.....except for 777....forget that stuff until you want to chrony, and experiment.

Hope your first shots are safe, I am sure they will be,....after all , you are familiar with metallic loading, and know to be ultra conservative when working up a load.....hell use 3/4 of that 3.5cc dipper for the first shot,,....then you will see the "light"...ahem....Fire!!!


I love getting all greased up.... from BP.

Next thread for you will be how to clean it.....ROFLMAO.

Get out a bucket of hot soapy water......................
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Old December 31, 2010, 09:20 AM   #25
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BTW,...

Rem Real BlackPowder Goex will make you giggle like you haven't giggled in long time!!!!!!!
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