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Old February 15, 2007, 08:26 PM   #26
WhyteP38
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The critical factor is your particular situation. In my situation, with the doors and windows locked, the "bump in the night" that calls for my immediate armed action will be more like a crash of a broken door or the shattering of a broken window. Unless the wife has a hidden personality disorder, she won't be the cause of either of those things.

If the bump is outside, I'll arm myself, arm the wife, and call 9-1-1. Our lives are more valuable than our things. That bump outside is not always a clumsy BG. Sometimes, that bump is to lure you into unlocking the house so the BGs can get in. I'll stay locked inside and let the police handle what goes on outside my home.
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Old February 15, 2007, 09:00 PM   #27
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my immediate armed action will be more like a crash of a broken door or the shattering of a broken window
If you think bad guys need to kick your door or break out a window to get in your house....think again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwTVBWCijEQ

This stuff is getting out and they are practicing this.
Any fellow LEOs should educate yourself and your other officers about this.
Keep it in mind when you do ped checks and pat downs. A simple key that looks like this should be considered burgler tools. But thats another topic. Maybe I'll start that thread.
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Old February 15, 2007, 10:13 PM   #28
WhyteP38
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If you think bad guys need to kick your door or break out a window to get in your house....think again.
Yep, except ... the bump key still won't unfasten my chain lock, deactivate my door-stop alarm, or (most importantly) deactivate my 85-pound security guard. So maybe there won't be broken doors or windows, but there will be something happening before anyone gets inside.

Even without a bump key, most locks can be picked, even the tubular key types, so I prefer to supplement my locks.
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Old February 16, 2007, 07:41 AM   #29
Lazy D
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Wow

With that "Fort Knox" security you could have your gun field stripped and still get it in to action before the bad guy made it up your driveway.
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Old February 16, 2007, 12:26 PM   #30
WhyteP38
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With that "Fort Knox" security you could have your gun field stripped and still get it in to action before the bad guy made it up your driveway.
I've been accused of being a "gold brick," so I guess "Fort Knox" is appropriate.

Actually, the door-stop alarm is used only if I'm out of town. The chain lock is sufficient for all other times and takes minimal effort. As for the dog, she's a salaried employee who is on-call 24-7.

I know folks who have a pistol stored in every room, which I find a tad excessive.
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Old February 16, 2007, 01:08 PM   #31
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Anyone Use a Door Club?

When I posted a few days ago about "lock bumping," I mentioned that I used Door Clubs on both our exterior doors. After the deadbolt and knob lock, if someone tries to get past the clubs, I'm waiting with my P14-45 Limited.

I got them because I don't think most door chains are strong enough, and they were invented by a guy here in my town. (Disclaimer: I have NO interest or investment in this company or product. I don't even remember the guy's name now ). You can look at them here:

http://www.securityworld.com/ShopSite/door_club.html

Anyone else use these, or have any experience with them? The package that they are a part of (reinforced hinges and striker plate, then the club), seems to me to be the most I can do to protect us. I think they are just one important part of home defense.
JS
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Old February 16, 2007, 01:20 PM   #32
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Right now the gun is in a bedframe holster that's screwed into the back of the nightstand. Unless you knew where it was, you'd never see it walking around the room, but it's very easy to access. I sleep on my right side, on the left side of the bed, and the gun as 12 inches from my right hand. The mag is loaded, and there is a round in the chamber. However, only the wife and the dogs live with me right now. Since we are preparing to have children, I am re-evaluating my options.

In Florida, it's a felony to leave a loaded handgun (Loaded means mag full and nearby, not just a round in the chamber) within "easy reach" of a minor. In my interpretation of this, that means my current configuration could be grounds for a felony conviction, not to mention very uinsafe for a little one. I plan on teaching my kids about gun safety as soon as they're old enough to listen, but ALL kids are curious, and I couldn't live with myself if there was an accident. I am looking at the easy-open fingerprint recognition safes. They are not cheap, but they seem to be the fastest to open, and require the least amount of thinking to get into. Plus, there's no possibility that a child could accidentally punch in the right combination. After the baby is born, that will be the end of the unlocked gun. That day it will go loaded and chambered into the safe, and I'll figure out some way to mount the safe that's inconspicuous, and available.
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Old February 16, 2007, 01:29 PM   #33
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rofl, i love it how everyone uses pistols for home defense. Your in your own home. Use some firepower.

I have an 8 shot winchester defender under my bed with 8 in the tube, NON in the chamber, A white light with a pressure switch, and that's that.

If the dog starts barking or glass starts breaking, I reach under the bed, chamber a little bird shot, and go investigate.

Yes, my first shell is bird shot. If you make me shoot the second it's 00 ; )

I would never go creep around in the dark with a pistol if I thought I had an intruder.
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Old February 16, 2007, 01:31 PM   #34
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Placement

Put a Mav 88 with 5 round glove above the closet opening on the inside. Along with my .45.
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Old February 16, 2007, 01:35 PM   #35
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Side by side 12 ga coach gun. Won`t go to the crapper without it.
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Old February 16, 2007, 03:29 PM   #36
WhyteP38
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Right now the gun is in a bedframe holster that's screwed into the back of the nightstand. Unless you knew where it was, you'd never see it walking around the room, but it's very easy to access. I sleep on my right side, on the left side of the bed, and the gun as 12 inches from my right hand. The mag is loaded, and there is a round in the chamber. However, only the wife and the dogs live with me right now. Since we are preparing to have children, I am re-evaluating my options.
My wife has 7 kids and 9 grandkids. Kids are like ants, and I don't mean that comparison in a disparaging way. What I mean is that a) ants are little, so they can easily get into things, especially things you don't want them to get into, and b) ants don't see, think, or do things the way you would.

Teaching gun safety is great, and IMHO mandatory, but it's a thin safety net. Without kids around, my AR would be next to the bed. With kids around, the AR is in the open safe during the night - where I can reach it in one step - and locked in the closed safe during the day.
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Old February 16, 2007, 04:07 PM   #37
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roflmao at the people who advocate a shotgun as the best home defense gun (this will start a big one I'm sure). A shotgun is less than satisfactory unless the only thing you do is hole up in your safe room and wait. If you ever have to clear your house, a long gun is a liability. Overpenetration concerns aside (yes they are an issue with a shotty), the barrel precedes you into every room and around every corner. Unless you hold it at high port or low ready, then it is too slow to employ. Also, at close range you really only have a large frangible bullet. It's not like hollywood where you have a 18" pattern at 6 feet, so you don't have to aim. Also, most interior walls have 3/4" of drywall (2 x 3/8") which will not stop a shot gun. So, not only do you have to worry about 1 projectile overpenetrating, you have multiple worries.
With proper TRAINING that means TRAINING for those who don't understand, for a civilian a handgun is the best choice for home defense.

When you think someone is in your home, the best course of action is to hole up in a "safe room" (if you don't have one, you should) and call the police. You can never assume that 1. there is just one person in your home 2. that they are not armed 3. that they are not competent with a weapon 4. that they only intend to take your belongings 5. that it is safe to assume anything.

In the instances where you may have to rescue guests, children, or others, a long gun is not an ideal choice.
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Old February 16, 2007, 04:25 PM   #38
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Keep in mind lurper that in 99% of all break ins what you SHOULD be doing is holding up in a safe room. So most of the time a shotgun is going to be your best line of defense. If you have to walk around your house, then you might have a point, but that should never happen unless you're separated from family.
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Old February 16, 2007, 04:28 PM   #39
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overpenetration with handgun bullets is more of a concern. THere's a reason the first round is birdshot. It WON'T overpenetrate. Plus i've been shooting 22 years, I know this isn't hollywood and my pattern only expands about 2" every 50 yards.

What I'm looking for is the quick shock of the shotgun round. The little pebbles ripping every artery in your chest as they lodge in.

To be straight, we were talking about home DEFENSE guns. Noone is getting in my house without breaking glass and setting off the alarm, or waking up the dog. I'm NEVER room clearing. I'm dialing 911 on my house phone, then my cell phone, and rounding up my kids.

Pistols are better for retention. They're just WEAK in power compared to a rifle or a shotgun.
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Old February 16, 2007, 08:25 PM   #40
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Home protection guns ultimately are personal preference. This is an argument that will never be settled. What's good for me my not work for the next guy. But there are some hard facts that can not be disputed.

1. It is easier to maneuver in close quarters with a handgun. Long guns are.....well...longer and just by the nature of the beast harder to maneuver.

2. A shotgun w/ bird shot will have less wall penetration than 99% of handgun rounds. The smaller the shot the faster it looses energy and the quicker it will spread.

3. An ounce of lead is an ounce of lead. Birdshot is just as lethal as buckshot at close range.

Don't just take my word and don't believe what anyone else rights, go out and do it for yourself. As a full time LE firearms instructor I am lucky enough to have the time and resources to go out, build walls (exterior type and interior type) and shoot holes in them. Recover the rounds when possible examine what they do, how they react to different types of barriers. You don't have to have a job like be to do it. Anyone can build 2 X 4 walls with sheetrock or siding with insulation, and go to the range and shoot them.

Stay safe and fight to win.
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Old February 16, 2007, 11:06 PM   #41
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I can't imagine having a gun and ammo easily accessible to children in my home. Secure your weapon. As a journalist I covered several stories that involved children accidently killing/injuring themselves, siblings or friends.
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Old February 16, 2007, 11:59 PM   #42
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The best home defense gun isn't a shotgun or a rifle or a handgun.

The best home defense gun is the gun you can get to in a hurry, given your circumstances.

In my case, I never was able to figure out how to adequately secure a long gun in a manner that was instantly accessible to me, no matter what room of the house I was in, and still wasn't accessible to the children even if I wasn't in the room.

But a handgun, a handgun I could wear on my hip. It would be wherever I was, it would be there when I needed it, and the kids could never get into it without my knowledge.

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Old February 17, 2007, 12:52 AM   #43
JollyRoger
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My home defense gun is a baseball bat. I have small kids, and the gun goes in the safe immediately upon getting home, comes back out when I go to work. Two dogs and security doors provide a good deal of security as well. In a decent neighborhood, the likelihood of a burglary of an occupied dwelling is very low. As for the "bump key" (which is really just a rake pick), the crime statistics show that burglars just don't use them. In over 90% of home burglaries, the burglar kicks or otherwise forces the door. Next up is forcing or breaking a window, but that is not so popular because you get injured by broken glass. Most burglaries also involve entry during daylight hours, when people are at work. Most of the home invasions or forced-entry violent situations you hear about on the news are domestics or criminal-on-criminal, though the news doesn't say so.

On the other hand, the likelihood of a curious kid getting an unsecured weapon, or the likelihood of a mistaken-identity shooting is all too real. Ever notice how kids like to jump out and scare people, or remember sneaking in and out of the house as a teenager? I like guns, am a LEO and a range instructor, but sometimes you have to go with rational probabilities. If you need a semi-auto rifle, a shotgun and a pistol by your bedside to feel safe, you need to move.
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Old February 17, 2007, 09:00 AM   #44
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A shotgun is less than satisfactory unless the only thing you do is hole up in your safe room and wait. If you ever have to clear your house, a long gun is a liability
.

Completely wrong. I'll take a shotty over a pistol every time. Properly outfitted and deployed, it is much more difficult to take away than a handgun
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Old February 17, 2007, 10:52 AM   #45
WhyteP38
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If you need a semi-auto rifle, a shotgun and a pistol by your bedside to feel safe, you need to move.
I would not say that I "need" a semi-auto rifle, a shotgun and a pistol by my bedside to feel safe, but I like having them there. If I'm going to own them, I must put them somewhere. If I must put them somewhere, I might as well have them within reach in case of an emergency. If I'm going to have them within reach in case of an emergency, I might as well have all my options available. Storing them near my bed not only accomplishes all of those things, but it also puts the safe in my bedroom, which I can lock to add another level of security.

Baseball bats and the like may be good for some folks, but I don't want to be close enough for some BG to cut me if he has a knife. A baseball bat is a complete "no go" for the wife; she's too petite. Plus, mentally she's more likely to pull a trigger than swing a club. From what I learned in the military, most people will more readily pull a trigger than club or bayonet someone, where you must make physical contact with your opponent.
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Old February 17, 2007, 10:59 AM   #46
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If you need a semi-auto rifle, a shotgun and a pistol by your bedside to feel safe, you need to move.
I don't "need" a fire extinguisher, but I have two. I don't "need" a smoke alarm, but I have several. I also don't need AAA, but I have it. Now if I got to the point I felt I "need" to take my gun into the crapper then I'd say I should move or seek counseling.
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