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Old March 16, 2007, 09:32 PM   #76
Garand Guy
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You want a completely stupid answer? Well, mine probably is. I don't have ANY desire for a buck with a HUGE rack. Please let me explain:
I wouldn't call it a stupid answer. Here's another thought on any animal with a huge rack: You can't eat the horns!
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Old March 17, 2007, 10:05 AM   #77
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A skunk:barf:
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Old March 17, 2007, 06:14 PM   #78
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USNairman said it all

Skunks, Polecats, Civit Cats or any of those Two toned kittys with a fluid drive !!!!!
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Old March 17, 2007, 06:38 PM   #79
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Silvanus, coyote , wolf dogs as such are not eaten in this country but in much of the world are on the menu, as for bear bb in the freezer now as long as they haven't been in the fish bears are good eating even had one customer that said his family prefered bear over moose & cabibou
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Old March 19, 2007, 05:13 PM   #80
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Thanks for your reply aaalaska
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Old March 24, 2007, 08:14 PM   #81
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I would never get on a plane, fly to another country (Africa maybe) and shoot animals there. It's obvious from the word go that its pure killing and has nothing to do with real hunting. Hunting is part of survival.

I read a story about a guy who was traveling the Northwest Passage by kayak. Amongst his anecdotes theres one about a guy he saw being towed behind a snowmobile in an insulated sled. He was a massively overweight "hunter". The Inuit who was his guide simply towed him into the vicinity of a bear, he raised his rifle and shot it. As it wasn't his first bear, he left the carcass to rot. When questioned on this method of "hunting" the man admitted that there wasn't much sport in it but it was how he spent his vacation and so that was that so a bear dies for absolutely nothing other than for this guy to get his kicks and have a brag at the water cooler when he goes back to his office job.

I live in Australia and I never shoot native animals. If I want to eat Kangaroo (which is superb lean meat) I go to the supermarket and buy some. Ferals are a different story. All fair game as far as I'm concerned, and feral cats, you can't kill enough of 'em!
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Old March 24, 2007, 11:02 PM   #82
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"I would never get on a plane, fly to another country (Africa maybe) and shoot animals there. It's obvious from the word go that its pure killing and has nothing to do with real hunting. Hunting is part of survival."

According to the facts, that survival requires some serious hunting:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=221076

When you say "real hunting", just what do you mean? As best I can tell from your own words, you apparently have a far more restrictive view than a whole bunch of other people--me included. Your right to have an opinion, of course, but I'd like to know more about your basis for your view.

Most of us here think of hunting in terms of free-ranging animals which may be difficult to find and which may not at all be cooperative. And we do have those who find it challenging to hunt animals which might also be hunting you.

Your example of the polar bear shooter and the Inuit is poorly chosen, insofar as what any of us here would consider to be hunting. And what's not at all condoned here is wasting the results of a fair-chase kill.

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Old March 24, 2007, 11:22 PM   #83
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Rhino. I don't think I could live with myself. I suppose elephant as well. Heck, I swerve out of my way on the interstate to avoid hitting jackrabbits out here in Wyoming. On the other hand, when I hunt, it's for real.
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Old March 25, 2007, 12:24 AM   #84
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I would have to say all big game that requires you to get up early in the cold of morning. I went elk hunting once as a kid and I HATED it. I'm a huge baby when it comes to cold weather.
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Old March 25, 2007, 01:07 AM   #85
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multistage>> Don't blame you! With the amount of damage I've seen a jackrabbit do to a new car, you'd swear it was the size of an elephant or a rhino!
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Old March 25, 2007, 10:45 AM   #86
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I would never get on a plane, fly to another country (Africa maybe) and shoot animals there. It's obvious from the word go that its pure killing and has nothing to do with real hunting. Hunting is part of survival.
Your obviously not a hunter and I have no idea where to begin to even try and explain. We see the world thru very different eyes.

Quote:
Don't blame you! With the amount of damage I've seen a jackrabbit do to a new car, you'd swear it was the size of an elephant or a rhino
Man oh man, have cars changed. When I was young I have seen guys aim at em at freeway speeds with no worry of damage.
In the late 60's us young guys and girls at times, would hit the boonies ( in the dirt) at night in dune buggies or cars and try to run down rabbits. It was a very rare occasion to get one but we sure had hours of laughing fun trying.
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Old March 25, 2007, 11:03 AM   #87
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Man oh man, have cars changed.
You can say that again... Once upon a time you could hit a deer and say "awe man, now I gotta replace a headlight--but I bet the backstraps are still good." Now the fix goes more like my grandfather once said... " Get out, unscrew the radiator cap, and put a new car under it, because that's about the only thing that might be left of the front-end."
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Old March 25, 2007, 05:27 PM   #88
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I could never hunt for "fun"/sport. I have no problem hunting for food, or to control a population that has grown to big and of course self defense.

Wolfs and dogs would be hard for me. Theres to few wolfs, and dogs along with wolfs are just too cute.
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Old March 25, 2007, 06:05 PM   #89
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If I'm hungry enough, I'll kill pretty much anything on all fours that's edible. Even 'possum.

Fortunately, I've yet to be that hungry.
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Old March 28, 2007, 09:25 PM   #90
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In response to ArtEastman

What I am driving at Art, is that there is a use for hunting and that is to gather food. That is the primary use of hunting. My Mother always said "Don't kill anything you don't intend to eat" which I think is a good moral position. I have shot things I didn't eat ,ferals . There is a desperate problem in this country with feral animals cats, pigs, Rusa deer, rabbits and a host of others that while I sit here typing are multiplying and damaging the native species and environment. I have no qualms about dispatching these animals humanely (Rusa deer are good eating fortunately). So even if you call it a fair contest, stalking and killing an animal, if you do it just for that purpose ie. sport then you and I have very different opinions on what "real" hunting is. Ultimately killing animals for sport is a waste of resources. If the animal just sits and rots, even if a trophy is taken, it's still a waste in my opinion. I chose the bear hunter anecdote to illustrate waste. I was also disgusted with the "hunters" attitude. I have no argument with the concept that there is something attractive in the concept of the hunt itself, involving an "uncooperative" animal. Hunting is deeply ingrained in the Human psyche but it's a powerful motivation for survival, not sport, that put it there. And yes, it would appear that I have a narrow (focussed?) view of hunting.
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Old March 29, 2007, 09:40 AM   #91
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Okay. We're sorta in two different dictionariess about the word itself. In the U.S., "sport" hunting merely means that the meat is not a survival necessity. Separate from "subsistence" hunting, where one shoots or goes hungry.

I don't guess i've ever known a hunter who merely killed for the "sport", the fun, of killing game animals. And I've hunted with a bunch of different guys, these last forty-some years since I moved back home to Texas. They most likely exist, but they're (IMO) statistically insignificant.

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Old March 29, 2007, 11:38 AM   #92
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Undoubtedly being a young guy from another part of the world you don't understand what is happening here in my part, no more than I do yours.
To begin with "sport hunting" as I understand it includes the meat. Even if a fella wants and shoots a trophy animal the meat is not wasted. In fact it is illegal to waste the carcass or meat. A hunter that purposely does that can pay a large fine and lose his privilege to hunt.
Even in Africa, though I have never been from what I have heard and read nothing is wasted. The local population is thrilled to have the food is my understanding.

I would imagine the article you read was written by a anti-hunter, a PETA type of person and wasn't even true. I have never hunted in the far northern reaches of this continent, above the arctic circle, but if I don't miss my guess to waste the meat is a crime there also.

We had some fellas that killed trophy elk a few years back, using spotlights and only taking the horns, illegal of course. There were fined thousands of dollars, did some time in jail and lost their hunting privileges for a long time if not forever.
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Old March 29, 2007, 12:47 PM   #93
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Boy, where to begin?

Quote:
I would never get on a plane, fly to another country (Africa maybe) and shoot animals there. It's obvious from the word go that its pure killing and has nothing to do with real hunting. Hunting is part of survival.

I read a story about a guy who was traveling the Northwest Passage by kayak. Amongst his anecdotes theres one about a guy he saw being towed behind a snowmobile in an insulated sled. He was a massively overweight "hunter". The Inuit who was his guide simply towed him into the vicinity of a bear, he raised his rifle and shot it. As it wasn't his first bear, he left the carcass to rot. When questioned on this method of "hunting" the man admitted that there wasn't much sport in it but it was how he spent his vacation and so that was that so a bear dies for absolutely nothing other than for this guy to get his kicks and have a brag at the water cooler when he goes back to his office job.

I live in Australia and I never shoot native animals. If I want to eat Kangaroo (which is superb lean meat) I go to the supermarket and buy some. Ferals are a different story. All fair game as far as I'm concerned, and feral cats, you can't kill enough of 'em!
First and foremost, if "hunting is part of survival", as you say, then why do you shoot feral cats - is that necessary to your survival?

Second, define "real hunting" - what is YOUR exact, precise definition of that phrase, please?

Third, if the slob hunter shot a bear and left it to rot, then he's a scummy unethical hunter - but that has precisely 0.0000000% to do with whether it's ethical to go to Africa and hunt an animal (which involves far more than merely shooting it), where the animals ARE eaten by the nearby villagers, the hunters, the PHs & family & friends.

Address those issues first, benonymous, and then maybe I can try to understand where you're coming from.

I think you vastly misunderstand what hunting is, and what hunters do. In the case of ungulates, Hunters eat the meat, whether it's a trophy or not!, or at least give the meat to hunters for the hungry, or some such group. Actually, ungulates, omnivores, predators, and other groups/species alike, save nuisance animals. To do otherwise is DEFINITELY frowned upon, unethical, and thus quite rare, at least in the United States of America. EXCEPT for the nuisances such as you describe. Of COURSE leaving a non-nuisance animal to rot after shooting is wasteful and unethical, and not considered "hunting" in my book - but WHO DOES THAT? No one I know...thankfully. Whether the animal has a trophy to harvest or not has nothing to do with whether one eats it or not, among the hunters I know - you eat what you shoot, period, except for nuisances, and you even eat some nuisances, like feral pigs.
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Old March 29, 2007, 01:41 PM   #94
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I've never wanted to hunt zebra.
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Old March 29, 2007, 10:09 PM   #95
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Probably a monkey.
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Old March 29, 2007, 11:59 PM   #96
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Hunting...

Obviously I don't eat feral cats. However, a good friend of mine mounted one as a trophy, good taxidermy on his part.

I have no compunction about shooting ferals and not using the meat but I'd rather shoot something I can eat. I was actually going over a list of feral animals in my head and this is what I came up with. Rusa deer, rabbits, foxes, goats, asian buffalo, cane toads, pigs, wild cattle, wild horses, wild dogs, cats and I have probably overlooked a bunch more. All of these animals are hunted and killed by recreational and professional shooters in Australia. I'm not sure if there's a bounty on all of them, I know there currently is on goats. There's also a limited number of them that you'd consider edible.

As you point out FirstFreedom, I am not up to speed with the laws/rules governing hunting in the US. I was certainly unaware that it was illegal to shoot an animal and not use the carcass. My impression was that, in particular deer hunters were just after "a good rack" and not packing out the carcass after killing the animal. I'm very impressed that such laws exist. I don't believe that any such regulations exist here in Australia.

my attitude to hunting is fairly narrow as has been pointed out. If I bowl a couple of feral cats over I call that "culling" rather than hunting. I guess it comes down to definitions. That said, I still would not go to another country and hunt there. It just doesn't sit right with me. But that's just me.

These are just my opinions, if you don't like them, I have others.
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Old March 30, 2007, 09:30 AM   #97
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Possums
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Old March 30, 2007, 12:10 PM   #98
Art Eatman
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Benonymous, if I'm eating the meat from an African antelope and others of my camp are doing the same, what difference does it make if I'm a visiting American or a resident?

As far as the big-rack deel with Bambi, it's pretty much a reasonable assumption that bigger = older = smarter and wilier. Thus, more of a challenge to those hunters who want a challenge in the dictionary sense of "sporting" as fair chase, fair play.

My father phrased it thus: "If you want the biggest buck in the pasture, you have to check out all of them. How else will you know which is biggest? Then, you have to go back and find Old Biggy one more time. Now, big bucks generally only make one mistake a season. If his one mistake was when you first saw him, you have your work cut out for yourself."

One thing about all the antlers I've kept: The memories include the meals as well as the hunts. Backstrap. Inner tenders. Barbecued hams. (Makes me hungry, just yapping about it. ) Keeping the horns makes those bucks immortal, at least during my lifetime. I can tell you the story behind each set.

I've never been interested in hunting Africa's "big four", but I'm fully aware that a village of natives would hug my neck if I provided them with the meat of a whole elephant. Their daily diets are low in protein. They'd consume a buffalo, as well. So, the "sport" gets his trophy; the locals benefit from a rise in their standard of living. Sounds to me like a good deal for all concerned. Is it not moral to help others improve their lives?

But I've never been much interested in hunting bears or meese*. Or going to Africa for other than a few of the plains antelope. Quail and doves, yeah, but little interest--dunno why--in ducks and geese.

Complex subject, ain't it?

Art

* If the plural of goose is geese...
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Old March 30, 2007, 12:41 PM   #99
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Great summary of the "sport" side to things, Art. I like the way you put it.
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Old March 30, 2007, 02:19 PM   #100
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I have never wanted to hunt an ant.

Anything in Africa really, and any of the Big Cats, including Mountain Lion, Jaguar and Tiger.
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