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Old February 12, 2007, 03:30 PM   #1
REDCELL
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15 FEET not yards accuracy

i keep reading these posts that people are shooting dime size groups at 15-20 yards. I regularly shoot at 15 feet /no benchrest.. I group shots in a 5-6 inch area. is this average accuracy for this distance.

-i've shot for 4 years now ..4 times a month
-9mm HK / 45 1911/ 45 HK.
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Old February 12, 2007, 03:39 PM   #2
Lurper
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What's your purpose Redcell? Are you shooting for precision or practical accuracy. There is a big difference between what is "acceptable", but ultimately you decide what is acceptable for you.
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Old February 12, 2007, 03:41 PM   #3
Redneckrepairs
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depends on why you are shooting , for defense that is fine as long as it is fast . For plinking or target work you need to go back to fundimentals and work a bit , dry fire with attention to all the basics . Slow fire i will shoot 12 ga shot gun emptys at 15 to 20 ft with a walther ppk/s shooting fast as i can i will scare hell outa them lol .
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Old February 12, 2007, 03:53 PM   #4
REDCELL
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i shoot fairly fast, the purpose is to just go to the range and shoot. I mean i'm not going to be a pro. with my 9mm hk i point shoot, i don't use the sights. if i slow down a bit i'm within 3 inches.

redneckrepairs
"Slow fire i will shoot 12 ga shot gun emptys at 15 to 20 ft with a walther ppk/s shooting fast as i can i will scare hell outa them lol ."

-i'm not sure what anyone of that means
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Old February 12, 2007, 06:51 PM   #5
rem33
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Remember this is the net. It's easy to say or be most anything. If you want to know what pistols are really doing off the shelf go read articles such as Dope Bag in American Rifleman etc. There are some guys out there that are fabulous shooters rifles and handgun. They are the few, not most of us.
That said I would think you should be able to get somewhere in the 3 to 5 inch area at 25 yards or so, or maybe you do need some help. Not jumping you here or saying you are not a good shot, but sometimes a helping hand is a good thing. Get to know some guys close by you can go with if you possible.
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Old February 12, 2007, 07:20 PM   #6
dogloose
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Slow fire with careful aim you should group better than 5-6" at 15 feet. Point shoot at self-defense speed... well... that is precisely what you want - 5-6" groups at 15 feet. Sounds like you are doing fine!
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Old February 12, 2007, 07:57 PM   #7
Guy B. Meredith
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Point shooting is not precision--don't expect precision results. For the small groups you will either need to be naturally gifted or work hard and use the sights.
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Old February 12, 2007, 09:29 PM   #8
Lurper
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RC:
If you are shooting just for the fun of it, then what difference does the group size make?
Fast does not mean inaccurate, it just means a wider envelope of acceptability. Nor does fast mean not using the sights. With proper training, you can learn to do Mozambique drills (from the holster, 2 shots in the body, 1 in the head - 7yds) in 1.25 - 1.5 seconds and see your sights.
If you want to drive tacks, you will need a different approach.

I'm not sure if you are asking for advice or just asking if 5 - 6 inch groups are acceptable. In a perfect world you should be able to do a "Bill drill" in under 2 seconds. That is an IPSC target at 7 yards, starting with hands at sides, draw and fire 6 rounds in less than 2 seconds. They all must be "A" zone hits (the "A" zone is about 7x11" iirc) to count. If you are shooting your groups that fast (or near that fast), then yes they are acceptable.
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Old February 12, 2007, 09:40 PM   #9
rantingredneck
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I posted some targets I shot Friday here Those targets are all slowfire at ranges from 7 to 15 yards. Rapid fire opens my groups up considerably. I'm working on shrinking those but I would be happy with 4-6 inch groups at 15 feet rapid. If you're mostly concerned about SD I would think that's acceptible.
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Old February 14, 2007, 01:09 AM   #10
Supertac
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Careful aim, I get 2 inch 5 shot groups at 15 feet standing. I shoot maybe 10 times a year.

When I rapid fire with a 9mm, it opens up to 5 inches.

Point shooting is not for getting tiny groups. It's great for practice because that's how most SD shootings happen.

I used to group about 12" at 15 feet using my sights because I would flinch. I would expect the recoil and pull down on the pistol. I great way to fght that is to put blanks in with your regular rounds. This will help you see that you're pulling the gun.
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Old February 24, 2007, 06:23 PM   #11
Eric M.
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Take with a grain of salt REDCELL, about the 2" groups at 25yds.
It is done with finely tune pistols, with the correct reloads, by trained shooters.
I will do it with my S&W 617 .22.
With my new Tanfoglio 9mm., I am still getting used to it, am still loading up different types of reloads, and I am shooting 6" groups at best.
I'm a good shot, and haven't shot enough rounds to figure out if the 6" groups at 25yds are because of me, my reloads, the gun, or a combination of the three.
I will eventually get down to small groups this summer when it warms up here in Minnesota.

With the type of shooting that you are doing, don't worry about it.
Just have fun, and figure if a big fat guy comes at you, he is toast.

Eric
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Old February 24, 2007, 07:00 PM   #12
JDG
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2" groups at 25yrds?maybe off a ransom rest 2" at 25', is more like it. Pistol sights are two big for that kind of accurace at 25yrds, unless your a pro.
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Old February 24, 2007, 09:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
It is done with finely tune pistols, with the correct reloads, by trained shooters.
Quote:
2" groups at 25yrds?maybe off a ransom rest 2" at 25', is more like it. Pistol sights are two big for that kind of accurace at 25yrds, unless your a pro.
I recently watched a shooter put 5 rounds shot offhand (two hand grip) into less than 2" using a borrowed CZ75 (out of the box stock) and American Eagle ammo. There were two other witnesses. During the same range trip, the same shooter used a rented SIG P228 and "range reload" ammo to make a 2.75" 5 shot group at 25 yards under the same conditions. This guy is DEFINITELY not a pro, just a hobby shooter.

People are a little too willing to blame their guns and ammunition for accuracy issues, IMO.
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Old February 25, 2007, 05:34 PM   #14
Smokin Joe
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seems easy enough to get tight groups, just dont move the gun during the 5 shots ? hehe
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