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Old January 19, 2007, 02:38 AM   #1
Doug.38PR
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How much to webley .455 caliber guns go for?

I've seen between $450 and $1900. I guess it depends on the exact model, condition and all.

Do they still make such ammo? I think collectors firearms in Houston once told me THEY manufactor specialty ammo for such guns themselves (maybe I misunderstood.) One of their black powder dealers told me that the .455 caliber wasn't very powerful at all compared to the .45 Long Colt as it was such a short cartridge.

When were webley's discontinued?
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Old January 19, 2007, 11:39 PM   #2
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.455 Webley

The Webley Mk VI was the last .455 revolver used by the British, and was the standard issue during WWI. By WWII, they had switched over to the .38/200 (.38 S&W) cartridge. Although the .455 served during WWII, it was not firstline issue.

.455 Webley ammo fired a 265gr lead bullet (conical) at a MV of 600fps. Not as powerful as the .45ACP or the .45 Colt.

The .455 is being loaded today by Hornady. Not as cheap as more popular rounds, but it is being made again.

You are correct about the value, it does vary widely with the exact model and condition.

Many Webleys have been converted to fire the .45ACP, with 1/2 moon clips. This was done in the years when .455 ammo was not available. The market value of these guns is less to a collector than an unaltered one. Older blackpowder Webleys (if converted) should not be fired with ACP ammo, as it is a strain on the gun. Later (WWI era) guns can be fired with ACP ammo but care should be taken not to strain the gun. GI ball equivalent lead bullet handloads have caused no problems in my 1917 Mk VI, but I don't shoot a great number of rounds per year either. A couple of boxes, maybe. I have had the gun for about 6 or 7 years, and at this rate, I expect it to out live me.
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Old January 20, 2007, 12:10 PM   #3
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Be careful when you buy a Webley.

Probably 95 percent of the MK VI's have been converted and most times the seller doesn't even know.
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Old January 20, 2007, 05:59 PM   #4
Doug.38PR
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If it has been converted, can it still shoot the .455?
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Old January 20, 2007, 06:38 PM   #5
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possibly, but probably not

My Webley has been converted, and it will only shoot .45acp in the clips. .45 Auto Rim brass is just a "hair" too thick in the rims.
I got a box of .455, and tried, but one pierced primer and two fails to fire convinced me to quit. Gun only gets .45acp from now on. If another gun has just a bit more learance, so that .45 AR works, then it would not be safe to try .455 Webley.
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Old January 20, 2007, 08:53 PM   #6
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The 455 Webley/Colt may just have the thinnest rim of any modern revolver cartridge, at least that I have ever seen.

When a Webley gets converted it chambers the thickest rim of any revolver cartridge.... the 45 AR.

This creates way too much clearance for the original cartridge.
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Old January 22, 2007, 08:04 AM   #7
guy sajer
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Here's a link giving a pretty good history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_revolver

Quote:
I've seen between $450 and $1900. I guess it depends on the exact model, condition and all.
Exactly right . Prices definately vary depending on the model . We just sold a Webley-Fosbery .455 for over $6k . The most common MKVI unaltered and in excellent condition like the one below might range from $700-1000 , imo .

Quote:
Do they still make such ammo? I think collectors firearms in Houston once told me THEY manufactor specialty ammo for such guns themselves (maybe I misunderstood.) One of their black powder dealers told me that the .455 caliber wasn't very powerful at all compared to the .45 Long Colt as it was such a short cartridge.
Fiocchi still makes ammo for it and as previously mentioned , Hornady made a recent run . Not sure if it's in continuous production as I believe it was made for just one supplier (Zander's?)

Quote:
When were webley's discontinued?
The last MKVI was made in the mid-1920's I believe .

Great piece of history . The Webley has served on atleast 6 continents through some historic times for the Empire

1918 MKVI .455 cal

Here's the later MKIV .38 cal
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Old January 22, 2007, 08:14 AM   #8
guy sajer
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Forgot to mention . If it's only a .455 you are wanting , don't forget the S&W 2nd Model Hand Ejector and the Colt New Service revolvers . They are somewhat easier to locate than a Webley . Great history as well and solid shooters

Here's a commercially sold Colt from about 1915-16 .


A British military issue from 1916 . The back strap is inscribed naming the owner and his military decoration for bravery .

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Old January 22, 2007, 09:38 AM   #9
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If someone wanted to make a little money, they could market a thin steel shim to go on the back of converted cylinders to make the use of .455 webley possible... kind of like a moon clip that doesn't hold anything.
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Old May 10, 2010, 04:30 PM   #10
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ammo

I have the Enfield Mark VI 455 Cal. version of the Webley. In frobnt of me I have a box of 455 MK II (Webley) bullets made by Fiocchin (italy). These are 262 grain lead bullets at $34.85 for 50 that I purchased at Butch's Gun Shop in North Seattle. This was a number of years ago so the price may not be the same. Phone number was 206-789-7575.
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Old May 10, 2010, 04:48 PM   #11
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How much would my converted 1896 Mark II be worth nowadays? The stocks are real ivory. I think I paid $300 when I bought it... 20 years ago?

The Mark II is the "high pressure" version of the original Mark I, designed for cordite rounds. It's converted and shoots auto rims or 45 acp (I've only shot modest handloads out of it - 5 grains of unique).

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Old May 11, 2010, 12:04 AM   #12
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Webley, Weebley, Wobbly:

1. Never buy an altered one. When in doubt, look at the cylinder face...there should be proofs, numbers or an arrow on it. No marks, its been converted.

2. Values: Shooter .455s $500-700, collector grades up to five figures. Named guns can be the most valuable.

3. Easy gun to load for.


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Old May 11, 2010, 05:15 PM   #13
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A co-worker has an unmodified Webley that he carries in his truck (wrapped in a towel). Apparently his father bought it at a hardware store back in the late '50's for $5.00. The co-worker said he remembers there was a "barrel full of'em". It's in excellent condition. I told him the gun is probably worth more than $5 now, but he is set in his ways
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Old May 11, 2010, 05:28 PM   #14
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So, nobody has an idea what the earlier and much rarer Webley's are worth?
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Old May 11, 2010, 05:36 PM   #15
wdelack
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Keep in mind that Collector's prices their guns a bit high...

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/ad...&Search=Search
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Old May 11, 2010, 06:02 PM   #16
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Thanks, wdelack!

They have a Royal Artillery Mark II (same as mine), with 70% blue and a lot more dings and scratches for $1,095. Mine is probably 90-95% blue and much better overall condition.

How much value does it lose for the .45 conversion? 25%? 50%?
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Old May 11, 2010, 07:53 PM   #17
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How much value does it lose for the .45 conversion? 25%? 50%?
In the collector world, 75%.

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Old May 11, 2010, 08:08 PM   #18
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In the collector world, 75%.
Well, I doubt that - even a converted Mark IV in good condition is going for more than half what a crappy Mark II is on that web site.
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Old May 11, 2010, 08:27 PM   #19
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I strongly recommend against firing those converted guns with factory or GI .45 ACP. There are pics on the net of a couple that blew out the chamber walls and I personally know of one that happened to and know the user was firing GI Ball, not reloads.

The .455 Webley pressure runs some 13,000 psi, while factory (and GI) .45 ACP runs 21,000, over 1 1/2 times the normal pressure, and over the proof pressure for the .455. A pet peeve is the myth spread by Webley fans that those old guns are super strong, and can't blow up. Believe me, it is a myth. They can and do.

FWIW, after the Webley .455 Auto pistol was adopted, the War Office put out warnings not to use the semi-rimmed auto pistol round in revolvers as they were coming apart.

As to prices, I recently paid $800 for a Mk I, the first type, with the holster guide and recoil shield made as part of the frame. A lot of machine work there. I thought the price was reasonable for a fairly rare gun.

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Old May 11, 2010, 08:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
I strongly recommend against firing those converted guns with factory or GI .45 ACP. There are pics on the net of a couple that blew out the chamber walls and I personally know of one that happened to and know the user was firing GI Ball, not reloads.
I don't shoot it often, but when I do I'm using 5 grains of Unique behind a 200 grain cast bullet in auto-rim cases, with a couple of wax disks behind the slug as filler... That's well under 13,000 psi - I got that load on this very forum a dozen years ago, possibly from you! I can actually see the bullet flying down range which is kind of neat...

Thanks for the warning though!
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Old May 11, 2010, 09:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
The Mark II is the "high pressure" version of the original Mark I, designed for cordite rounds. It's converted and shoots auto rims or 45 acp (I've only shot modest handloads out of it - 5 grains of unique).
I think you're confusing you Mark numbers between those assigned to cartridges and those assigned to revolvers. The Webley Mk. V was the first Webley specifically designed to use smokeless (cordite) ammo. The cordite ammo is the Mk. II cartridge while the black powder ammo is the Mk. I cartridge. Many Mk. IV revolvers were retrofitted in order to be suitable for the Mk. II cartridge, but to my knowledge no Mk. I, II, or III revolvers were so-retrofitted. Mk. I-IV revolvers should really only be shot with black powder or an equivalent. I don't know how the pressure of your Unique load compares to a black powder one, but without pressure testing it I wouldn't want to shoot it in a Mk. II revolver.
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Old May 11, 2010, 10:17 PM   #22
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I own a converted (45 acp) Webley/Enfield Mk VI (mfd. 1924) and an unconverted(455) Webley Mk VI (mfd. 1917). I paid $500 for the converted and $750 for the 455 Webley. I like both of them. They're safe queens. They've earned it. I have Snap Caps for both of them so I can occassionaly dry fire them and imagine I'm taking on the Tong in Shanghai or dealing with bandits in East Africa or perhaps on a safari in Kenya with my trusty Rigby Rising Bite 470 Nitro Double and the Webley in my holster.
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Old May 11, 2010, 11:30 PM   #23
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So, nobody has an idea what the earlier and much rarer Webley's are worth?
I have an unconverted Mk. I (1880s, black powder only); is that one of the early and much rarer ones???
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Old May 12, 2010, 12:22 AM   #24
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i imagine those ivory stocks are worth more than the gun.
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Old May 12, 2010, 01:34 PM   #25
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The Webley Mk. V was the first Webley specifically designed to use smokeless (cordite) ammo.
Every reference I have ever seen is that the Mark II was the first cordite Webley. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.455_Webley
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