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Old January 17, 2007, 12:42 PM   #26
Doug.38PR
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So you're walking out of a gas station towards your car. It's 0130, and it's dark. A man walks up asking for some change.
<what do you do at this point> After dusk! Just say a firm NO! and keep walking. Avoid turning your back on him, watch what he is doing not what he is saying.

Quote:
Whether you gave him some change or not, now he's asking for some real cash or even a ride someplace. He's moving closer to you and being very persistent.
<what do you do at this point> Be aware of what is going on around you. He may have friends in the other direction. His aim might be to distract you. Tell him NO again. If he is getting too close for comfort (set your boundaries) Tell him to go away putting your hand up as a shield. If it looks like he is making a threatening move (hands going into coat or pockets) be prepared to go for your gun.

Quote:
Now he's showing his true face. He pulls a weapon and demands all of your money, you phone, and your keys.
<what do you do at this point> If he pulls a weapon, you'd best at least have your hand on yours. BUT you don't want it to get to this point.

Quote:
Do you draw and fire? Draw and give a warning? Just give up your belongings and call yourself luck to be alive?
If your life is in danger, draw and fire if you must. None of this is written in stone. It's not always a play by play scenario, but be sure of this: DON'T give him anything, DO tell him NO, DO keep your distance and MAKE SURE he keeps his. More than likely if he sees that you are a man who is confident, unintimidated and aware of his surroundings he won't persist. A retired LEO told me a while back that if a criminal can think of just one reason not to do something, then he won't do it. They are cowards and the very reason they are criminals is because they are cowards and too lazy to do anything much less risk their health over something.

If your gun in anyway is produced, CALL THE POLICE IMMEDIATELY and tell them what happened. Even if it is just putting your hand on the grip visibly to make him retreat from a threat. If you don't, then he might and will have a different story to tell them.
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Old January 17, 2007, 03:39 PM   #27
threegun
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A friend gave me a great way to both resolve most problems like this and to secure friendly witnesses in the worst of cases. It goes like this a bum, hoodlum, scumbag, thug, punk, whatever approaches making you uncomfortable even thought they haven't yet proved to be a threat. You loudly say STOP LEAVE ME ALONE I DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY DON'T ROB ME!!! followed by GET AWAY DON'T HURT ME SOMEONE HELP ME if they continue to advance.

Of course you follow all of the smart tactical rules like keeping distance, scanning for others, escape if possible, etc.

If you are forced to shoot the only thing witnesses can say is that you told the guy not to rob you, not to hurt you, and asked for help. No cussing to give the appearance of starting a fight or getting upset and allowing emotion to overtake you and cause you to shoot out of anger instead of fear.

It has been field tested and approved.....never had to draw or shoot yet thankfully and it stops them in their tracks. I don't know if they think you are nuts or realize that you are getting things ready in case you have to blast them but it works.
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Old January 17, 2007, 03:43 PM   #28
Beckerich
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five words that work on any desperate druggie

"I-have-anti-personnel-grenades."

if he keeps coming after that, blow'em away pa!
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Old January 17, 2007, 03:44 PM   #29
Doug.38PR
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You loudly say STOP LEAVE ME ALONE I DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY DON'T ROB ME!!! followed by GET AWAY DON'T HURT ME SOMEONE HELP ME
That sounds more like panicing. It also tells them that you are afraid of them. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
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Old January 17, 2007, 04:36 PM   #30
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What do I do in a mugging? Usually, I say "Hands Up! Your money or your life!"
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Old January 17, 2007, 06:57 PM   #31
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Quick answer: Keep your distance and watch what's going on. I wouldn't go for my gun unless I was sure he wouldn't see me, and only after he pulled his. However, it's pretty damn hard to pull and be sure he won't see you if you're that close to him.
Otherwise, I would cough up whatever he asked for.
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Old January 17, 2007, 07:07 PM   #32
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Oh, I have another question. If you are WAY smaller than your attacker (like a small girl) what should you do if you carry?
Do the same rules apply, or do you just allow yourself to be raped or mugged, or have the crap beat out of you? What if your attacker gets your gun and kills you with it? My girlfriend was asking me some questions because I was explaining to her about how you have to be in a lifethreatening situation before guns are brought out. What justifies that?
I'm 6'2", 220lbs. It would take a LOT for me to pull a gun. But if I was 5'1" 105 and a female, and some punk got up in my face and threatened me, I think the rules would change. What would you guys suggest I tell her? Also, are there any links to find laws on this?
I just always followed the rule that unless my life is in immediate danger of death, the gun stays in the holster. If I were a little girl, I think what it would take to consider myself in "immediate danger of death" would be much less if attacked by a large man.
My sister was mugged in philly a few months back. I don't know if the mugger was armed and neither does my sister. The guy just cold cocked her and took everything she had. Would she have had the right to shoot his a$$ in that situation? This stuff gets pretty sticky.
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Old January 17, 2007, 08:27 PM   #33
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My sister was mugged in philly a few months back. I don't know if the mugger was armed and neither does my sister. The guy just cold cocked her and took everything she had. Would she have had the right to shoot his a$$ in that situation? This stuff gets pretty sticky.
I think women can get away with a lot more than men in these situations, especially against unarmed attackers. As mentioned by JohnKSa, there is the disparity of force (not saying that all women are weaker by any means, but it will work strongly in your favor in court if it ever got that far). For someone to walk up and assault her like that, you sister most likely could have shot him and not ever be charged with anything. She could say that he threatened to rape her or something like that.


I hate to say it, but situational awareness will prevent most of these situations. When I am out late and in a desolate area, I usually have my gun in my hand inside my pocket. I constantly scan my surroundings and look directly at anyone approaching me. I am not a big guy (5'7" 160lbs.) but I project a sense of self-confidence.

One important thing for security planning is not going to quite areas late at night in the first place. There is absolutely no rule stating that you have to fill up only when your car is about to run out of gas. I know this does not apply to road trips, but that is not the majority for most people. If you fill up you car anytime it hits a quarter tank, you can often avoid the late night fill ups. Now if you have to run out for something that can't wait, try to park as close to the entrance as possible and try to pick well lit areas.

As for what my reactions would be, any request for money would be answered with "sorry, I only carry credit cards". That is becoming more and more of a fact for many people now. It is much safer (unless they force you to withdraw money from an ATM) for the most part.

If the bad guy gets more forceful or agressive and continues to approach, I would repeat in a louder and more forceful voice, "I told you I don't have any money. Leave me alone." If it is possible, I would either go back into the store or get into my car (whichever was closer). If the bad guy makes a move to intercept, my gun is coming out. I know this may be considered brandishing, but its hard to beat someone who already has a gun drawn on you. I would then tell him to back of and report the guy directly to the store employee and the police. Any attempts to produce a weapon or a gun grab would probably result in me pulling the trigger. I trained in martial arts a long time ago, but I consider it folly to tangle with an unknown attacker.

One option would be to buy a taser. Those things aren't cheap, but they appear to be very effective. This is an ideal option for non-lethal defense and can be used with much lesser repurcussions. I would also have the taser out much earlier than I would draw my gun. Of course some are going to argue that they don't trust battery powered devices, but lithium batteries hold their charge for a very long time. One other thing abour the taser is that it works even if it is an off centered hit. I've talked to quite a few police officers and I haven't found one who was not immediatley knocked down when they got tased (they must get tased before they can carry a taser).
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Old January 17, 2007, 08:29 PM   #34
revjen45
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Pepper spray is a good alternative (got to get some). If it's illegal where you live, perhaps long range wasp killer would suffice. It shoots a stream of insecticide to kill the inhabitants of a a nest without getting close enough to draw them to attack you. I have no idea what the legal ramifications are, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn once.
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Old January 18, 2007, 12:36 AM   #35
nwetherill
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Well I would start with the 1,000,000 volt stun gun (ebay 35 bucks), Got some 15% pepper spray in the car as well, and go from there.
Got stun guns for my wife and some of our friends and figured hell why not get one. pepper spray makes great stocking stuffers lol.. Then there is always my .45.

As far as using the ninja USMC pistol strip........ prolly not.
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Old January 18, 2007, 10:09 AM   #36
Beckerich
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i think the stun gun wud be the best, it knocks down any man and u dont have to murder any one
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Old January 18, 2007, 03:16 PM   #37
threegun
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Doug,

Quote:
That sounds more like panicing. It also tells them that you are afraid of them. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me
Did I mention it has worked 100 percent to date from at least 4 people I know.

Don't forget that the witnesses are going to tell the jury that you called this poor dead gentleman (with mom saying he was a good boy) a MF or SOB or just told him you were going to blow his head off.......and then proceeded to blow his head off. Be careful how tough you try to sound. This is precisely why my friend developed our method........only helpful witnesses and it still works. I don't need to sound tough............it works. Try it next time a bum trys to bum (pardon the pun) so change from you.
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Old January 18, 2007, 03:22 PM   #38
threegun
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i think the stun gun wud be the best, it knocks down any man and u dont have to murder any one
We are only allowed to shoot in self defense. Killing someone in self defense ins't murder. Besides most stun guns (except for the police taser guns) are crapola. I hit myself with a stun gun like 140,000 volts and it only burned my arm at the prongs. My friend hit me on the butt cheek and the same thing just burned a little.........with fresh batts. It did make me want to beat my friends head in though.......took me from happy to lets fight in one zap.
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Old January 18, 2007, 05:25 PM   #39
Doug.38PR
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Don't forget that the witnesses are going to tell the jury that you called this poor dead gentleman (with mom saying he was a good boy) a MF or SOB or just told him you were going to blow his head off.......and then proceeded to blow his head off. Be careful how tough you try to sound. This is precisely why my friend developed our method........only helpful witnesses and it still works. I don't need to sound tough............it works. Try it next time a bum trys to bum (pardon the pun) so change from you.
Well, if it worked for them fine. But 4 people in 4 incidents. What if their are no witnesses around....it is dark, it is 1:30 in the morning. They may not have had any hostile intentions (just pestering) and were embarrassed when you started screaming at them. On the other hand, if they are indeed hostile they may decide they can intimidate you if you sound panicy and afraid.
I'm not saying you should pull our gun and scream at the "SOB" or "MF". That also is panicing and, like you said, can get you in trouble. I'm just saying you should watch what he does, avoid him and firmly but calmly let him know you are not giving him anything and set boundaries and be sure he knows when he has crossed them. Pulling your gun should only be done when you are sure of his intent.
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Old January 18, 2007, 05:42 PM   #40
ckd
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OC spray, stun guns, taser, and other non-lethal force options may be functional in tiered well trained team response to a single agressor with room to manuver, but for the average CCW, will generaly just eliminate any time and distance advantage you may desperately need. Lethal force must be proportional to the threat, but excessive worrying about legal issues, should not paralyze one's defense in a lethal enounter.

I suspect others will have different views.
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Old January 18, 2007, 05:48 PM   #41
whip1
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Is a mugging a lethal encounter?
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Old January 18, 2007, 08:28 PM   #42
revjen45
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It is if somebody gets killed. When we moved to TX in '03 one of the first news stories we heard was about some poor peon who died after being stabbed to death while the 911 dispatcher caught the whole thing over his cell phone. A cop on the phone isn't worth much. A gun in the hand is.

Last edited by revjen45; January 18, 2007 at 08:37 PM. Reason: afterthought
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Old January 19, 2007, 01:57 AM   #43
geologist
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I'd soak the POS in high octane gasoline and then light a cigarette for him.

Remember, if you give a criminal a match, he'll be warm for an hour. Set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Old January 19, 2007, 02:27 AM   #44
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I for one don't have much money to have in a wallet. as for carjacking throw the keys over his head and run if you are unarmed and he is. If he has a blunt object I might have a chance against him if I can get my jacket off. Otherwise I'd just keep my distance and not give him anything. Rule of thumb is if you can run do it. Only face an opponent when you have an advantage or need to protect your person. Scary thing is if his face is uncovered chances are he may not intend to let you live. If his face is covered he is not afraid of being ID'd.
My complete response:
Gun: Give him what he wants but throw it behind him and get to cover

Object: Run. If I can't, take off jacket as Sarong style shield. If I have it my Glock 78 (Knife not gun) will come out and slash his tendons in his forearm causing him to drop said object (if the object is half the size of a baseball bat and a onehanded instrument) Maybe not a finishing blow but he will bleed to death in a few minutes if I hit the artery.

Unarmed: If I think I can't beat him I will run again. If forced to I would start by getting a hold on him (maybe a hammer lock if he reaches for me) or throwing a snap kick to his belt and taking a warrior stance. If he throws a punch get him in a choke hold and end it quickly. Again if forced to and I have it i would pull out my knife and take my stance.

As of yet I am saving my money for a XD .45. My shotgun doesn't exactly fit in my jacket pocket and is a little illegal to cut it down so it does. If I could I would rather have a scatter gun over a pistol more for the intimidation aas well as the insurance the perp won't get up again
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Old January 19, 2007, 03:03 AM   #45
Doug.38PR
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Is a mugging a lethal encounter?
YES! Someone is using force to get to an article on your person. That is a threat. They are willing to use force to get it away from you which means if you resist they are going to cause bodily harm to you.
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Old January 19, 2007, 08:19 AM   #46
JoshB
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I'd soak the POS in high octane gasoline and then light a cigarette for him.

Remember, if you give a criminal a match, he'll be warm for an hour. Set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
What would the legal repercussions of this be?
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Old January 19, 2007, 09:40 AM   #47
mpage
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There is a legal concept called disparity of force.

What it means is that if an attacker is obviously significantly stronger or much more capable, or if there are several attackers, the fact that they very likely could do you serious injury or kill you without a weapon means that you can respond to their unarmed threat by using a deadly weapon.
I've heard about that, but does this not vary from state to state?
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Old January 19, 2007, 03:48 PM   #48
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Quote:
Quote:
I'd soak the POS in high octane gasoline and then light a cigarette for him.

Remember, if you give a criminal a match, he'll be warm for an hour. Set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

What would the legal repercussions of this be?
A darn waste of good gas. Could always claim he was a protester and set himself on fire
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Old January 19, 2007, 05:09 PM   #49
odessastraight
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"What do you do in a mugging?"

It seems simple to me; get a good sight picture, proper sight alignment, and squeeze the trigger while concentrating on the tip of the front sight until recoil blurs it away. Take your time, but do this as fast as you can.
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Old January 19, 2007, 06:22 PM   #50
Baba Louie
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Where is mugger in relation to you, your car, and the door you just walked out of? Which is closer? Are there other night-owls out and about as witnesses? Security cameras?
Can you move & react quickly? At what distance did you initially spot him? Do you have a CCW on you?

Depends on WHERE you are located... maybe. Laramie, WY is not NYC or South Central L.A.. For youngsters who might not know about Bernard Goetz, the following link might be an interesting read. (I know, a NYC subway at 1:30 in the afternoon is not a C-Store gas pump lot at 1:30 a.m.)
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...17/lkl.01.html

I find the part about going through over 360 potential NYC jurors who had been mugged (30 - 40 who'd been mugged more than once) trying to find an untainted pool of Goetz's peers to stand a jury, darkly humorous. The civil lawsuit(s) that followed... not so funny.

Is it easier (and cheaper) to drop a $20 bill and run like hell?

Maybe
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