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Old January 14, 2007, 06:42 AM   #1
G-Cym
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What do you do in a mugging?

So you're walking out of a gas station towards your car. It's 0130, and it's dark. A man walks up asking for some change.

<what do you do at this point>

Whether you gave him some change or not, now he's asking for some real cash or even a ride someplace. He's moving closer to you and being very persistent.

<what do you do at this point>

Now he's showing his true face. He pulls a weapon and demands all of your money, you phone, and your keys.

<what do you do at this point>

Do you draw and fire? Draw and give a warning? Just give up your belongings and call yourself luck to be alive?

Using your own judgment, state laws, personal beliefs, etc, what is your plan to deal with an armed mugger? What about an unarmed mugger?
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Old January 14, 2007, 06:53 AM   #2
Hook686
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Search this forum .... You will find all the information you could possibly want, regarding this type scenario.
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Old January 14, 2007, 07:34 AM   #3
G-Cym
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What would be the fun in that?
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Old January 14, 2007, 09:13 AM   #4
tepin
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ill play...

at 0130 at the gas station i have a gun in hand in my pocket.

reply:
"i dont have any money" [backup / side-step]
"i dont have any **** money now get the **** away from me" [backup]
"boom, boom, boom" [three rounds through my coat pocket]

if the threat is immediate, you probably dont have time to 'warn' the bg. certainly dont do warning shots. thats TV stuff and dumb.

Last edited by Capt Charlie; January 14, 2007 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Edited by Capt Charlie for (implied) inappropriate language
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Old January 14, 2007, 09:18 AM   #5
tshadow6
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mugging

I would do one of two things as the guy walks up to me. 1-head back into the store at a fast walk. or if my car was closer , head to the car at a fast walk. 2-DO NOT STOP, keep moving at a fast walk, throwing the mutt's timing off. as far as the rest goes, I never give change or rides to strangers so the scenerio stops at the guy approaching me. Also, I never go to gas stations that late without my nasty mean tempered dog, or my 9mm
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Old January 14, 2007, 09:19 AM   #6
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As soon as the guy doesn't take no for an answer, and starts following me back to my truck, I go into in condition orange, trying to put as much space between he and I but trying not to turn my back to him. At this point my hand will be on our near my sidearm, he pulls a weapon and threatens my life, now we are in condition red, and the sidearm comes out of holster and a bead is drawn on center of mass. At this moment, it is up to the BG, and the type of weapon he has as to what happens next. If he has a knife he would have a split second to withdraw from the attack, if the weapon is a gun shots would be fired at center of mass, and call 911.
Of course this is Sun morning QB. there are thousands of variables that would alter my reaction, but by the scenario you gave this is pretty much how I would respond.
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Old January 14, 2007, 10:10 AM   #7
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You'll see a range of opinions out there on this. I'll offer these thoughts.

If you are facing down a guy with a gun, you are almost certainly NOT going to be able to draw and fire before he shoots you. You are proably putting your self in more danger by going for your gun. If it's a knife, and the guy is upclose, same thing. You are getting cut before you get your gun out. (I've taken knives away from people twice. I've been luckly. I've been taught to do it. I had practiced it. I haven't done it in years. I would rather not ever do it again. It's almost certainly safer than trying to draw. If you get you hand cut up, it's better than being stabed in the chest, stomach, or an artery.)

If you have a revolver or derringer in your pocket, and you hand on it, you have a significant advantage over a person having a gun in a holder.

I'm not likely to have more than $100 in cash (probably much less) on me, plus three credit cards, that might cost me $50 bucks each if they are used before I can cancel them. I've got a $150 (replacement cost) cell phone. My drivers license will cost me $8 bucks to replace. My work ID will cost me $20. My wallet cost me $9. That's $437, if they take my entire wallet and cell phone. My lawyer charges $450/hr. That's high for a criminal defense lawyer, but that's what he charges (nominally). He's a friend, I don't know what he'd charge me. Figure your run of the mill defense lawyer's going to get $200 per hour, and I can't imagine them not asking for a non-refundable retainer of $1000, right off the bat. I'd love for a defense lawyers to give a ball park fee for working a shooting that never even makes it to arraignment, or one that never goes to trial. Till then, I guessing $1000 minimum. So, besides the moral cost of taking a life, shooting a mugger, even when legally justified, will cost me at least $650 net, a night at the police station, possibly my gun, possibily my license. And, if the DA comes after me, a criminal defense lawyer I know was getting $100k for a homicide defense that goes to trial as of about ten years ago. I don't know what his rates are now.
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Old January 14, 2007, 12:07 PM   #8
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Unless you HAVE to shoot someone, its not worth it. It should always be a last resort.
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Old January 14, 2007, 06:21 PM   #9
tepin
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Quote:
Unless you HAVE to shoot someone, its not worth it. It should always be a last resort.
yep... regardless of right or wrong... court will be 50K to 100K so make sure you really need to shoot the the person... get gas during the day.
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Old January 14, 2007, 07:05 PM   #10
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Do what you're supposed to do, give him everything you have and beg him not to kill you. The Brady Bunch will be proud of you.

Seriously, try to get as much distance between yourself and the mugger. Your options increase as you create "working room".

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Old January 14, 2007, 08:23 PM   #11
Glenn E. Meyer
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Several legit trainers have classes on this situation and run FOF scenarios to deal with it. Much more useful than Internet speculation about the Brady bunch.
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Old January 15, 2007, 12:37 AM   #12
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Whatever it takes to not get shot, including handing over my wallet.

But I'd certainly drop the hammer if I didn't have any other options.
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Old January 15, 2007, 12:57 AM   #13
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The sad thing is that there is nothing set in concrete. Each situation will be a little different. However, one can hand over the wallet with one hand, and as you extend your hand, fumble the wallet. Hopefully his eyes will follow the wallet towards the ground, as you :
A; draw and shoot him.
B: kick him in the knee cap, followed up by a couple of kicks to the head
C: run screaming and shouting, doing a zig zag pattern
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Old January 15, 2007, 01:39 AM   #14
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Well, this is obviously a close range scenerio here. I am not a military type, but I have been trained by my uncle to be able to disarm ANYONE at close range USMC stlye.
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Old January 15, 2007, 06:25 AM   #15
dave421
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Quote:
Well, this is obviously a close range scenerio here. I am not a military type, but I have been trained by my uncle to be able to disarm ANYONE at close range USMC stlye.
No, you really haven't. Believing so can/will cause you a lot of problems. The best fighters in the world are the ones that know that they don't know everything and they can't do everything. While I strongly believe that a disarming attempt should at least be considered in a mugging situation, it's definitely not going to work 100% of the time and it could be dangerous to believe otherwise.
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Old January 15, 2007, 10:30 AM   #16
mikejonestkd
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Maser,

You might, just might be able to disarm an assailant 80% of the time if you are REALLY good, however no amount of money in your wallet is worth the 20% chance that you will fail in your attempt to disarm them. I have been training 20+ years and am still amazed at the number of people that think they can move faster than a bullet, or even avoid a knife ALL the time.

If the assalilant has the drop on you, drop the wallet and run.
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Old January 15, 2007, 04:40 PM   #17
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Something similiar has happened to me twice in gas stations at night.

On both occasions a stranger has walked up to me while I was fueling my vehicle, as they started walking closer to me and asking for change, I immediately angled my body to reduce target size, put my right hand to my hip (I may only have had a folder on me at times, but he doesn't know that) while holding my left hand out and yelled "Stay Back" & "Don't come any closer". I also readied myself to retreat around my vehicle to always keep it between me and the BG. On both occasions, the guy got the hint, backed-off & walked away.

I would never give them the chance to get any closer to me than original point of contact, I will even move myself to increase the distance if possible & put something between us.

One other time I was in the parking lot of a KFC waiting for my order to come out & there was a rough looking punk loitering there as well. He started moving towards me trying to look casual about it, so I walked to the passenger side of my vehicle and opened the door to show my border collie sitting there. When he saw my dog, he stopped, turned-around and walked away -he never even noticed the .45 which I drew and held behind my leg.

I think that the best tactic is to always be aware of your surroundings, communicate very clearly that you are not a victim and you won't let him/her closer.
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Old January 16, 2007, 02:52 PM   #18
Hook686
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I am always amazed reading about the number of folks that go to the post office, at 2 a.m., get their gas, at 2 a.m., get milk at a quickstop type store, at 2 a.m. This always seems with deserted parking lots, with dark areas all around. Waiting in the parking lot for my KFC order is a new one.

Why would you wait in the parking lot for your order ? I do not understand why folks do not think, in advance ... get their gas during the day, pick up their mail in the morning, frequent businesses that are busy, rather than isolated ....

Does situational awarenes exclude evaluating basically safe behavior practices ?
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Old January 16, 2007, 03:30 PM   #19
JoshB
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I've thought this out several times in my head. Here is what I would do...

Quote:
So you're walking out of a gas station towards your car. It's 0130, and it's dark. A man walks up asking for some change.
"Sorry, I'm a little short tonight." Keep walking to the car with one eye on him, the other looking for the execution of "plan b."

Quote:
now he's asking for some real cash or even a ride someplace. He's moving closer to you and being very persistent.
Either 1) With a stern look, "Hey man, I don't have anything for you!" Keeping both eyes on him, free dominant hand/arm just in case you need to grab your pistol [ hand should be free to begin with, but maybe you have some milk, etc in your hand].

OR, 2) If the situation was such as determined necessary [nothing fits one of these cookie cutter scenerio's], grabbing the grip of my pistol with same stern look, "Hey man, I don't want any problems!"

Quote:
Now he's showing his true face. He pulls a weapon and demands all of your money, you phone, and your keys.
See my response for the second step.

If I went with 1), then, with a compliant look, "Sure thing, let me grab my wallet," as I smoothly draw my pistol and proceed to end the threat...

If I went with 2), [he already know's I'm armed] I quickly draw and end the threat...

At this point, deadly force is clearly authorized. In 1), you show compliance untill you can gain the advantage. In 2), you proceed in the escalation of force you already established.

Quote:
What about an unarmed mugger?
I grab my pistol, let him know I mean business, and if I feel as if my/someone else's life is threatened, I end the threat...
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Old January 16, 2007, 03:43 PM   #20
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Mugger @ 1:30 am

Yup. I'm a firm believer in The united states policy on terrorists. WE DON'T SURRENDER. However, violence is rarely the answer but when it is it's the only answer
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Old January 16, 2007, 03:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
What do you do in a mugging?
I dont know, never been mugged but if anyone was pointing a gun at me you better belive I will do as they ask until I get my moment, then it is all over as I know run fu the oriental art of escape

BTW, I have been shot at, carry a piece of a bullet in my left shoulder, it hurt a lot. Got stabbed once in the back of my neck, that really hurt not to mention the blood all over me. Alas the bouncer days are over for me, the last big one I broke my hand on some guys head, that also hurt.

Quote:
I am always amazed reading about the number of folks that go to the post office, at 2 a.m., get their gas, at 2 a.m., get milk at a quickstop type store, at 2 a.m.
I used to get off of work right about that time and yes I even went to get gas on occasion but I do stay out of the "dark areas".
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Old January 16, 2007, 09:44 PM   #22
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I'm usually in bed at 0130 hours asleep like those who have to get up at 0500, but since you asked.... At his approach I don my "eat guano and die" face, put my hand on my gun (in my jacket pocket if a revolver, pants pocket if the Mak, OWB holster @ 4 o'clock if it's Mr. Steyr), weak hand over chest to assume weaver stance and prepare to present. "Don't **** with me" is about as plain as one can be to indicate absence of fear. Predators don't usually attack prey that will put up a fight and demonstrating that you don't fear the creep is probably the best way to convince him to go after someone else who does. I was approached in broad daylight on the street in Seattle by 2 guys in a sleazy area (was there because that's where the medical facility I was visiting is located- not to score some crack). One walked up and asked for spare change while the other flanked me and positioned a skateboard over his shoulder. About 2 weeks earlier a man had been brained with a skateboard in that area and died, so it was Condition Orange/turning Red immediately. I put my hand on the .38 snubbie in my back pocket and assumed the ready to draw stance while giving them the ES&D look and saying nothing. The one who wanted money muttered something and they left. Were they planning to jump me right on the street? I don't know, but if they had I would have shot them both, closest one first. There was no doubt in my mind (nor time for an adrenaline rush), but I wished for a gun with more power and capacity. It's not a matter of whether the contents of my wallet are worth the cost of a lawyer. The contents of my head most certainly are, and I will not allow a sociopathic sub-human to do me harm.
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Old January 17, 2007, 06:39 AM   #23
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Well if, in this scenario, the presumption is that you're armed, then I think it's pretty cut and dried.

I think a more interesting question is: what if someone who's relatively powerful looking, like some young con who just got out of the joint, comes up to you and demands money or he'll kick your ass. What if he wails on you and is obviously better with his fists?

You dump him and when the cops get there they want to know why you shot an unarmed man. Maybe he's a local "kid" who doesn't happen to have much of an arrest record.

Last edited by mpage; January 17, 2007 at 07:48 AM.
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Old January 17, 2007, 09:41 AM   #24
ckd
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So give him money and all will be well!? I would agree with avoiding having to show and/or use deadly force, but isn't this all about the best and worst case scenario?

If you let him quitely get within hand-out range you get what you deserve.

Re-direct his attention to another car, move back into the store, alert the clerk of pest, someone call the police if you think the threat has merrit. If you are blocked by your return to the store, we're assuming you don't have family to protect here, tell him/her in a loud firm voice "I can't help you", watch his hands moving your support hand to a stop position, preferably with a bright blindling pocket light to stun the pest, try to divert him to a sheeple, get out of there. Keep moving until you are sure you can safely enter and move your car. A covert draw or snubby aimed through your coat provides you with the last measure. Escalation can occur in the blink of an eye, often firm verbal commands and attentive body language will deflate the pests plan, they prefer easy marks.

I carry a through down roll of bills and an expired credit card in the pocket just below my CCW; it gives me options. I've seen first hand the results of just being compliant, it doesn't always work the way the poor victim/sheeple hoped it would, especially for women.
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Old January 17, 2007, 12:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
I think a more interesting question is: what if someone who's relatively powerful looking, like some young con who just got out of the joint, comes up to you and demands money or he'll kick your ass. What if he wails on you and is obviously better with his fists?
There is a legal concept called disparity of force.

What it means is that if an attacker is obviously significantly stronger or much more capable, or if there are several attackers, the fact that they very likely could do you serious injury or kill you without a weapon means that you can respond to their unarmed threat by using a deadly weapon.

The first Texas CHL shooting was just such a case. It went to trial and the facts that the slight CHL holder was permanently injured, had a good lawyer and the very large dead attacker had a "Born to Kill" tattoo figured heavily into his acquittal. In other words, you probably won't go to jail, but you almost certainly will go to court.
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