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Old January 10, 2007, 09:08 PM   #1
randy716w
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690 roundball

Can anyone out there give me any information on loading a 690 roundball in a 12 ga shell. I would like to use a Winchester AAhull (or Remington),a commerical wad(Remington, Winchester, or Federal), and a commerical primer(Rem, Win, CCI)? Everything that I find for a 690 roundball uses something I have never heard of.

Also can I use load data for another slug that is the same weight and fits into a shot cup of a wad? I load the Lyman sabot slug and the Lee 1 and 7/8 ounce slug and like their performance.

Also does anyone know about loading a 600 roundball in a 20 ga or putting three 600 roundballs in a 12 ga shell?
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Old December 24, 2016, 12:10 PM   #2
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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20 ga .562" and .575" round balls as slugs

Dear Randy 716w,

Nobody answered you? I am familiar with that too.

I load as well the 7/8 oz Lee Drive key slug for 12 ga. It is awesome and a cheap alternative to expensive slugs. I only transform birdshot Shells into slugs.

Recently I transform 20 ga birdshots into slugs as well. But I did not have a Chance to shoot them since I did not yet pick up my Mossberg 500 Turkey THUG tactical 20 ga shotgun.
However the slugs I prepared already.

For 20 ga roundball slugs I use .562" and .575" lead round balls (Lee molds). The latter fit nicely into most 20 ga wads. I use them in sabot style (the round ball goes into the birdshot wad Cup).
As well I bought an crimping tool for roll crimp. That works very nice and gives about factory crimpings.
Use the same load data for same Charge/slug weight. Crimping must be similar as well.

I fear the .600" Diameter round ball will NOT fit into an 20 ga wad Cup. The .575" (286 grains) is about the right size and better would be the .580" round ball (which I believe Lee does not make an mold for). .600" (325 grains) is to much for the 20 ga.
3 .600" round balls may exceed the weight of an 12 ga since those 3 round balls gives you 975 grains total besides that they may not fit into the normal 2 3/4" Shells.
But I am recoil sensitive so for an 12 ga I never would exceed 382 grain (7/8 oz). An 20 ga I heard is a relatively soft shooter compared to the 12 ga considered both guns weigh 7.5 lbs (like These my Mossbergs do).
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Old December 27, 2016, 11:38 AM   #3
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Subcribing to this thread being I want to load the .690 round ball as well. All of the reloading data I find is very specific to wads etc.

I dont think accuracy is going to be stellar on this loading, maybe minute of barn door, but half the fun is finding out isnt it?
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Old December 27, 2016, 12:39 PM   #4
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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A lead round ball of .690" Diameter weights roughly 495 grains. That is to much for me recoilwise and exceeds I guess most normal 12 ga charges as well.

I feel my headaches again each time I shoot the 12 ga 7/8 oz Lee slug after not Shooting it for months.
For an 58 Kg Person (like me) the 12 ga is very easily on the heavy recoil side since as I understand the 12 ga is made for People at least 80 Kg of weight.

If the head aches after Shooting an 12 ga that is an indicater of brain damage due to excessive recoil. (like it happens with Boxers, Football Player enforcers or any martial art sports were the head is hit). The head is not made to get hit or stand recoil.
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Old December 27, 2016, 01:31 PM   #5
Jim Watson
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Don't guess.
495 grains = 1.13 ounce.
1 1/8 oz of shot is a standard 12 gauge load. I have shot many at trap.

Slugs and "pumpkin balls" can be fired at higher velocity than shot, which might be the cause of your "gun headache."
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Old December 27, 2016, 04:46 PM   #6
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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I don't believe it is a "velocity Thing" what causes me headaches Shooting an 12 ga gun.
The gun I shoot has 7.25 lbs empty.

It is plain and simple the load what causes the headache.

No; it's not just me!
That is the reason why many People Switch to 20 gauge. It is just plain soft Shooting considered the 20 ga gun weights as well 7.25 lbs.

That tells me that an 12 ga is for the average Person an to heavy kicker as well. Please don't tell me modern People as "Softies" and the older Folks are the real "hard guys".
It's not that an 12 ga is a "man gun" and the 20 ga is for "Softies, Cowards ad the like".

Fact is that These empirical stats show the 12 ga is "unhealthy" to shoot due to excessive recoil otherwise People would not Switch over to the 20 gauge. Unless you are a 250 lbs guy; but for Folks of merely 120 lbs like me the 12 ga has to much recoil.
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Old December 27, 2016, 06:47 PM   #7
Jim Watson
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My Trap gun is a gas operated auto, 8.5 lbs or so.
That cushions the recoil of 500 12 ga in a weekend.
On the other hand, a box of shells from my 7 lb double at a Cowboy shoot is about enough fun.

A friend hunts pheasant with a 6.1 lb Benelli Ultralight 12 ga. Of course she don't get many shots a day so recoil is not oppressive.

Unless you are shooting a lot at a time, I conclude your 7.25 lb gun is not a good fit to your physique.

I would still develop ball or slug loads a few at a time. Hunkered down on a bench just accentuates the kick.

Last edited by Jim Watson; December 27, 2016 at 06:54 PM.
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Old December 27, 2016, 07:22 PM   #8
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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Yes. Nothing against round balls as slugs.

Just a round ball which fits in an 12 ga wad is of about the 7/8 oz Lee drive key slug size. That slug is .681" of Diameter. A round ball of .680" Diameter will have an weight of 473 grains.

All I say is that is to much of recoil for me myself. And I read on the Internet there is an ever groving mass of People who prefer the 20 ga over the 12 ga because of reduced recoil. They migrated from 12 ga to 20 ga.

The .575" Diameter round lead ball fits perfectly in an (most) 20 ga wad. And that is about 283 grains.
The Lee 7/8 oz drive key slug is 383 grains.
Compared to that the 12 ga .680" round ball is 473 grains. That is 100 grains heavier than the Lee slug and 200 grains heavier than the 20 ga lead round ball.
I shot already the .575" round ball out of an 12 ga Shell and it has almost no recoil but is not accurate as far as I can tell (shot out of an open choke Maverick 88 security gun using the Black Powder and the powder of 1 bomb of an rocket from an distance of 40 meters).

The 12 ga gun I have is this:



From Website (Source): http://www.mossberg.com/product/500-turkey-53265/
You can not say the gun does not fit me since it is completely adjustable. Same gun in 20 ga has just arrived for me. All my guns have adjustable stock in order to fit perfectly.
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Old December 27, 2016, 09:03 PM   #9
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No doubt that a1 1/8oz load is pretty punishing. Im 190# (~86kg) and those loads are pretty rough, but, the great thing of hand loading is the ability to back off the loads a little. A 690 ball at 1000fps still carries 1088 pounds at the muzzle and doesnt drop to much. Given the shape of the projectile and the shear mass I think it would be a devastating round on anything on the receving end.

Now, you push that load to 1300 fps and the muzzle energy jumps to 1839 pounds. Thats punishing. Ill be tinkering with trying to get them to run at the earlier stated 1000fps.
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Old December 27, 2016, 09:33 PM   #10
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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Looks like the shotgun as the "poor man's rifle" get's at 1000 fps an energy Level of an 223 rem and at 1300 fps has an energy of an 30-30 win with the .690" round ball.

The shotgun is anyways nothing else than an modern smoothbore musket. No Need for hollow Points though to get Expansion.
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Old December 27, 2016, 10:53 PM   #11
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Hahaha! Thats for sure, if a .69cal ball wont kill it, it doesnt need to be killed
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Old December 30, 2016, 12:37 AM   #12
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I guess that a key question here is tolerance to pain and shock. My light twelve whoops my pretty good, but it's not painful enough to get on my nerves. You probably aren't as used to heavy recoil as many of these other guys are. I know a guy who shoots HUNDREDS of ten gauge magnums every year, day after day, shooting geese.

I don't mind the pain of recoil. I sure hate the pain of running. To add insult to injury, it turns out that I have a defect in my heart that contributed to my problem.

We've all got different pain thresholds, and we have tolerance for some sort of aches and none for some others.
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Old December 30, 2016, 04:13 AM   #13
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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Yes briandg

Since I am shouldering the guns on my left shoulder (were the heart is) I allways was wondering if the recoil of any gun would affect negatively the heart.
I believe it is not contribuiting to an healthy lifestyle shooting left shouldered with heavy recoiling guns.
It may reduce the “serviceable shelflife“ of the shooter by a couple of years. It is only my guessing.
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Old January 1, 2017, 05:46 PM   #14
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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Here is an additional discussion and an link to an thread related to it as well.https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=582254

The .575" round ball together with 5 #4 Buckshot balls (cal 24) gives deer size/man size accuracy in an 12 gauge. This is the famous George Washington load. The choke used was an modified choke.

Seems that the bouncing round ball in the 12 ga translates to an greater inaccuracy further down range. The Lee drive key slug however shot about POA.
I am sure the round ball (even an undersized .575" lead round ball in an 12 ga) is potentially very accurate.
However with smokeless powder an .575" round ball ONLY is to light since there is lots of unburnt smokeless powder. Putting 5 #4 Buckshots in Addition changes the game and no unburnt powder can be observed. Only the load has still to less recoil so making a load of 1 .575" round ball + 6 or 7 #4 Buckshots (instead of 5) would give an very nice defensive load.

As I shot the .575" round ball + 5 #4 Buchshots at about 30 meters I got an solid hit (about POA but low. I shot at an Eucalyptus tree) with the round ball and found 2 of the Buckshots scattered on the tree in an radius of about 8 Inch. I was surprised how much force those #4 Buckshot must have had since one grased the bark deeply and exited at the other side of the relatively soft bark (but nevertheless it Shows some power behind those light caliber 24 buckshots).

Last edited by TheGuyOfSouthamerica; January 2, 2017 at 06:11 AM.
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Old January 1, 2017, 11:16 PM   #15
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#4 buckshot is my favorite coyote load for the shot gun and I can tell you your observations are correct. #4 has plenty of energy/penetraion to cause grievous wounds one anything deer sized or smaller.
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Old January 2, 2017, 06:08 AM   #16
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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Last time I shot a medium size dog with my “firecracker rocket“ powder
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=582254
and filled the wad cup with spent WSP primers. I thougth the load would be less than lethal since each primer is relatively big in size compared to #5 lead birdshot but way ligther as lead.

Turned out that load was not less than lethal.
I shot the dog from about 4 meters with an Maverick 88 12ga which has an open barrel since it is an security model. The whole load stayed together and must have went into the animal since I could not find one single spent primer after the shot. The dog turned several times around its own axis screaming and ran away. The whole floor was bloody but his blood trail was not as big.
The dog never came back and there is a stench somewhere in the woods my workers say.
Plastik balls are less than lethal but spent primers are very much effective at close range and almost kick nothing.
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Old January 3, 2017, 07:44 PM   #17
redhawk45
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I cast the Lee .690 round ball and found the best load for my guns was using felt wads and card spacers on top of the powder without a plastic wad. The load is in the Ballistic Products Slug loading manual along with many other loads for the lee and lyman slugs. Good Ideas.
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Old January 3, 2017, 08:10 PM   #18
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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redhawk45,

Which is the accuracy of the .69" round ball?
I assume the .69" round ball fits exactly into an 12 ga birdshot wad Cup. Is that correct?

My experience with round balls are only with .575" round ball in 20 ga birdshot wad Cup. Did not have an Chance to shoot that round.
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