The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old January 7, 2007, 05:26 PM   #1
GalilARM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 267
Scary Encounter recently.....

Sorry in advance for the long post.......I am a graduate student in Waco TX, known for high crime rates/poverty/etc so I have heard my fair share of robbery/break in/theft stories from other students in my area.

I was sitting at home the other day, around lunchtime, when someone knocks at the door. I looked out the window and couldnt quite make out who it was, but I definately didnt recognize the guy. He was a black guy and was pacing around outside the door. Not that race should be an issue here, but I live in an area that is 99.9% college students, so someone like that is usually out of place and often suspicious. So I took my .45 to the door with me, looked through the peep hole only to see him waving at me, like he knew I was eyeing him. I opened the door and the guy starts into one of those "hey Im trying to sell magazines so that I can blah blah blah" routines. I listened until he paused long enough for me to say no thanks, but when I did, he started to step inside the apartment. I said again that I wasnt interested in what he had to offer but he kept trying to persuade me, all the while he had one of his feet in the door to where I couldnt close it. I backed up and let the door open on its own, my hand on the .45, and I told him that he had one more chance to leave before I called the police. I think it was fairly obvious that I was armed. He STILL kept trying to persuade me, but he backed out of the doorway and I closed it behind him. I thought about calling the police so that they could watch out for the guy, but I was swamped with schoolwork and didnt bother. I should have....

Later on that day, probably 3 hours later or so, I was going over to a girl friends house to pick her up for church. I was on the phone with her as I was driving to her house. I heard the doorbell in the background and she told me that there was someone at the door. She answered it while still on the phone with me, and sure enough, it was that same guy who I had dealt with earlier. I recognized his voice from my end of the line. She didnt even let him begin his sales pitch and told him that she wasnt interested in what he had to sell. She said "oh my God theres a guy at my door and he is trying to come into my house". She was more concerned with the fact that there was a big black man at her door, and didnt even hear the "magazine subscriptions" part, so as far as she knew this guy was a rapist or robber. (I can hear everything going on over the phone at this point). I was about 45 seconds away from her house at this point, fortunately. I hurried as fast as I could to get there, even though I knew she was probably in less danger than she thought, but either way, no girl should be subjected to that kind of treatment.

I get to her house and the door is open and I see no signs of the magazine guy. (she had hung up the phone at this point) I started to worry, and took my USP from the console of my truck (haha call me paranoid but I've got guns everywhere) and went into the house. She was backed into the kitchen and he was standing there in the living room trying to convince her that she needed a subscription to Ebony or something like that. I was furious at this point, it was definately the same guy that was at my home earlier, and this time he was INSIDE her house, UNWANTED, AFTER being asked to leave. Now I'm no expert on the law, but I felt like I had every right to level my pistol at this guy and demand that he leave immediately. I was nervous also, but this guy recogized me and his reaction was pretty funny actually. He was probably shocked to see the same guy who he had harrassed earlier in the day. I told him to stay put (the gun was visible) while I called the police. I do volunteer work and have been actively involved with the local police force for the past couple of years, so I dialed them and asked for one of the guys who I knew would be on duty. It turned out that they had actually had a few people complain about the same guy, but the police couldnt locate him in time I guess. We were already late, so we left after the officer took a brief statement. They had the guy out on the curb cuffed, but that was the last I saw. I haven't had a chance yet to ask them what exactly he was charged with if anything.

It was a pretty nerve wracking experience, for me and her, and I think that I acted reasonably and accordingly given the situation. The officers apparently thought so too, because I didnt recieve any criticism for my actions. One officer actually told me that he liked my USP compact

I know I probably shouldnt have opened the door in the very first place, but in a way I'm glad I did because I was more prepared for the situation at my girl friends house. Tell me what you guys think about the way I handled this situation, and what you think you might have done instead.....
GalilARM is offline  
Old January 7, 2007, 05:40 PM   #2
TomG160
Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2005
Posts: 98
I really don't feel informed or qualified enough to comment on some aspects of your story, but I'm glad you were able to respond to your girlfriend so quickly. You may have intervened in something very nasty. Good intuition or observations on your part. Since the guy was cuffed, maybe he got a little uncooperative with police or maybe if you find out it was something else you could let us know. Way to keep yourself and others safe!
Tom
TomG160 is offline  
Old January 7, 2007, 05:48 PM   #3
foob
Member
 
Join Date: July 22, 2006
Posts: 99
Quote:
Since the guy was cuffed, maybe he got a little uncooperative with police
I thought all suspects are handcuffed when arrested...no matter how cooperative (guess except for the rich guys)
foob is offline  
Old January 7, 2007, 05:54 PM   #4
TomG160
Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2005
Posts: 98
that could be, I don't know.... In my mind I was imagining them questioning him and he didn't want to stay put. I was looking at it this way because the origional poster never said they arrested the person.
TomG160 is offline  
Old January 7, 2007, 06:01 PM   #5
GalilARM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 267
As far as i know, they took him in for questioning once they realized he was the same guy who had been complained about previously. I dont know if any charges were filed. I'll be up at the station sometime soon and I'll try and find out.
GalilARM is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 10:05 AM   #6
PILMAN
Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2006
Location: Fort Walton Beach, Florida
Posts: 76
I think you did the right thing. Personally I'd be a bit cautious on drawing my gun on someone as I want to make sure they are a threat but that's just me, although the nerve of the guy forcing himself into your house would have definitely been more than enough for me to grab my gun and think of it as a home invasion. Good job though.
PILMAN is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 10:33 AM   #7
AR15FAN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2006
Posts: 179
Please, you opened the door and let a stranger in with a gun in your hand?? If its true you did the wrong thing and I personally don't even believe it is true. You hear the guys voice on the phone while talking to your girlfriend, there's more baloney here then in a cheap deli.
__________________
Use your most powerful weapon first, your brain.....
AR15FAN is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 12:08 PM   #8
Desertfox
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2006
Location: Arkansas-Oklahoma Line
Posts: 336
Kinda hard on the story aren't you AR15fan ?

Your comments sound like a defence attorney.

Brings good thoughts to what might happen if you had given that intruder a few more air inlets.

You may run into a prosecuter that feels like AR15Fan. The next thing you know you are in the pen wondering why you defended your girlfriend.

So, what could have happened if the old boy didn't show up to defend her?

That is the question.
__________________
Teach a kid to respect wildlife, then teach a kid to hunt and fish.
Desertfox is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 12:42 PM   #9
GalilARM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 267
"Please, you opened the door and let a stranger in with a gun in your hand?? If its true you did the wrong thing and I personally don't even believe it is true. You hear the guys voice on the phone while talking to your girlfriend, there's more baloney here then in a cheap deli. "


No, I took the gun with me to the door, out of sight. It was only removed after the guy entered my home. I have read enough posts on this website to know I'm not the only one who carries a gun to the door when an unexpected visitor knocks. And yes, I could hear him talking over the telephone. The guy was only a couple feet away from her, talking to her. Havent you ever heard someone talking in the background of your telephone conversation? I brought this to the forum to get opinions on how I handled the situation, not to be accused of making up some incident.
GalilARM is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 01:00 PM   #10
AR15FAN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2006
Posts: 179
OK, let me put it a little more nicely, if you have a gun in your hand and open a door to a stranger, then shoot him for whatever reason you open yourself up for a premeditated murder charge. Now I know it depends on what state you live in and all, but why open the door? Also, you refer to a "big black man" is a big white man any less dangerous if he is a killer? The whole thing sounds silly and made up to me and that is my opinion, you may be 100% on the money but I don't believe so. And I don't represent the forum, just myself. My qualifications? I watch CSI......
__________________
Use your most powerful weapon first, your brain.....
AR15FAN is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 01:21 PM   #11
GalilARM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 267
Again, I only mentioned the man's race because its what made him stand out as being out of the ordinary in my area. Dont read into that any further.

Again, if you dont want to take me seriously thats fine. I came here seeking answers regarding this incident. I've got better things to do than type up page long narratives for no reason.

Again, this guy and whatever company he works for have made the local news in my area for issues like these. Basically these magazine sales companies hire people practically straight off of the streets and tell them that they have to sell a certain number of subscriptions by days end or they get fired. It results in overly "agressive" salespeople, and I know we werent the only ones who were made uneasy by these peoples selling tactics. I can easily get documentation of this and/or the original incident and post it if its that big of a deal to you.
GalilARM is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 01:27 PM   #12
cal
Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2001
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 50
AR15fan???

CSI???? Give me a break!!!!

WE have to take the story teller at his word. We were not there.

The way I read it...is plausible that you can recognize voices over a cell phone. Done so many times. I'm a little hesitant to agree with the the brandishment of his gun. But then we have to refer to....It is HIS story we were NOT there. Take it or leave it.
cal is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 01:41 PM   #13
GalilARM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 267
Ok let me get this straight.....There wasn't really any "brandishing" of the gun when the guy came to my door. I had the gun on my waist with a light jacket over it. When he started to step inside, I backed up with my hand on the weapon. He could definately see I had a firearm from where he stood in the doorway, and it was enough to get him to leave. The gun was never actually pulled out. That would have been a little extreme, especially since he had just told me he was selling magazines. This was all mentioned in the original post, but maybe it wasnt clear enough. My apologies.

A gun was drawn however when I got to her house to find the door open and the guy standing at least 10 feet inside. I was scared for her safety at this point, as he had no business doing what he did. I felt as though I did what I had to, given the circumstances, but then again thats why I posted this thread, to get everyones opinions. Thanks guys.
GalilARM is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 01:55 PM   #14
Samurai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 901
Nobody got hurt? You weren't charged with anything? Then, you did FINE. Relax, have a col'-beer, and put it out of your mind.

When you start second-guessing yourself (and PARTICULARLY when OTHER PEOPLE start second-guessing YOU), the tendency is to say "How could you have opened the door to a potential would-be rapist/murderer?!?!" I say, "HOGWASH!!!"

Until this guy started acting weird, you had nothing to fear. Until he got weird, as far as you knew, he was just an ordinary Joe, standing on the stoop, selling magazine subscriptions. You had NO reason to fear interacting with this "ordinary guy" at the time you opened the door.

Once he got "weird," you acted perfectly correctly in arming yourself and asserting your right to be free of this threat. You talked him out of your house without incident, and for that, KUDOS TO YOU!!!

At your friend's house, the guy was a bit more assertive, and you were perfectly within right to exercise your right of self-defense of a third party. You got the guy apprehended, without injury or incident to anyone involved. For that, KUDOS TO YOU!!!

So, basically, KUDOS TO YOU!!! You did fine.
__________________
- Honor is a wonderful and glorious thing... until it gets you killed!

- Why is it that we fire 1,000 rounds and know that we need more practice, but yet we punch a bag 10 times and think we know how to fight?

- When in doubt, train, train, train...
Samurai is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 01:58 PM   #15
AR15FAN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2006
Posts: 179
Uh, the CSI is a joke, see the smiley after it? OK, I'm stepping out of this one, hope all works out, bye.....
__________________
Use your most powerful weapon first, your brain.....
AR15FAN is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 02:00 PM   #16
GalilARM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 267
Haha well thanks Samurai. I guess the main reason that I asked for some outside opinion is because I knew the officers that responded to the call. I wasnt sure if I would have caught any flak if it had been any other officer that I wasn't personally acquainted with. I'm not afraid to defend myself in a situation like this, but I also want to be sure I'm still on the right side of the law...
GalilARM is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 02:28 PM   #17
Prophet
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2006
Location: Great State of TEXAS
Posts: 244
I think you did just fine.

AR15FAN do you never carry in your house I go to the door all the time with my gun right on my hip and if I don't have it then I put it the small of the back to see what or who it is.

back the OP I think you did fine. I sometimes take my AR15 to the door with me if its late at night and there shouldn't be someone knocking at my door. What I do inside my house is no one else's business If I want to answer ther door with a gun in hand thats what I'll do. And just like you no one will ever come in my house (or make it very far that is). I had one of these guys come by the other day I was out cleaning my wheels and tires on my truck and good lord he wouldn't leave. He also hit every house on our street too. those guys do have a bad job though. I know I wouldn't do it.
Prophet is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 02:45 PM   #18
AR15FAN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2006
Posts: 179
Actually I don't Prophet, where I live carry is not legal and all things gun related are generally frowned upon. When people I don't know are at the door I use a side window that they can't access to ask who it is and what they want. I usually just tell them I'm not interested, as anyone not from my neighborhood is selling something. I'm a firm don't open the door to strangers.
__________________
Use your most powerful weapon first, your brain.....
AR15FAN is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 05:16 PM   #19
NCHornet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2006
Posts: 1,001
First of all never mind AR15, there is one in every group.
I have read your story twice and I believe I would have done the same. The guy became a threat when he would not allow you to close the door at your place, you didn't draw on him, although that would have been my next move if he would have entered my home any further. As far as your girlfriends house I would have been in there in a heart beat. I hope your girl friend learned something from this as well and I am glad y'all are all safe.
Take care
__________________
When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away!!
Carry ON!!
NCHornet
NCHornet is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 06:03 PM   #20
hot sauce
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 21, 2006
Posts: 506
Time to move! He knows where BOTH of you live! I would have shot him the 2nd time.
hot sauce is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 06:21 PM   #21
Baba Louie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2001
Posts: 1,493
Quote:
Tell me what you guys think about the way I handled this situation, and what you think you might have done instead.....
You did just fine. Helps knowing a few of the local po-po and the ones you did backed you up as well. Always nice to be able to talk guns with someone else (your HK compact & cop). Always nice to be able to talk about it afterwards with no attorneys or correctional officers present.

Talk to your GF about opening her door to strangers and how it's not always a wise move (I'm sure she gets the point now). Good thing you were so close nearby or else she might have a lifetime subscription to Ebony.

Was he selling any subscriptions to SWAT?

Quote:
Now I'm no expert on the law, but I felt like I had every right to level my pistol at this guy and demand that he leave immediately.
Maybe not an expert, but you might want to KNOW the applicable laws and follow Lawdog's advice on knowing a good attorney if your response is handgun oriented...

http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/

Sure would put a damper on your life (not to mention salesman's or GF's) if 6
+ lbs of pressure were applied.
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington, January 8, 1790, First State of the Union Address
Baba Louie is offline  
Old January 8, 2007, 06:21 PM   #22
phoglund
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2002
Location: Montana
Posts: 13
Time to move? I think not. My read would be these two are the last two people this guy is likely to fool with again. Having a gun pointed at you and getting arrested in a place generally gives that place a bad vibe for you ya know? There are much easier targets around than this guy and his gal pal. I think you did good as well. I'd say if you did anything out of line your friends at the PD would at least let you know you pushed things a bit even if they didn't officially rap your knuckles. If being armed and responding to this sort of behavior was the norm instead of the exception you would see far less of this type of activity.

"Good on ya mate!"
phoglund is offline  
Old January 9, 2007, 12:47 PM   #23
MD_Willington
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 17, 2005
Location: SE WA State.
Posts: 563
Got a camera on your cel-phone?

Take the persons picture... Give the picture to the police and explain that both times the person crossed the threshold into your residences after being asked to leave, to me that is two cases of an unwanted entry... I'm sure there are others in your area that would also have the same experience.

Glad you're both okay, one of these magazine kids tried to get into our apartment once and put their foot in the door jam across the threshold, they left with a very sore foot.
MD_Willington is offline  
Old January 9, 2007, 03:46 PM   #24
oldbillthundercheif
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2006
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 2,450
I guess none of y'all have ever been employed in the "cold sales" business...

This magazine selling fellow went way over the line, but I would be willing to bet that his style has sold lots of subscriptions:
"Fine, give me a subscription to Small Arms Review so you will get the hell out of my house!"

I don't think the poster did anything wrong and he does not seem to be bending the truth as some folks here have claimed. He just had to resort to iron to clear out an overzealous salesman with an intimidating technique.
oldbillthundercheif is offline  
Old January 9, 2007, 04:47 PM   #25
DBOUNCE1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2006
Location: OMAHA
Posts: 189
good work my man he was prolly just using intimidation to sell magazines but you never know
__________________
KICK THE TIRES AND LIGHT THE FIRES
DBOUNCE1 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14487 seconds with 7 queries