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Old January 3, 2007, 04:45 PM   #1
Para Bellum
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Video: Shot with LEO .45 and still fighting for minutes

This video is informative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwqT2jQhMZo

I am not posting this to bash the .45. I believe that his could happen with any (hand-)gun. But I guess this video is important to show many of us what reaction to expect when firing a (single) shot in defense: none.
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Old January 3, 2007, 06:19 PM   #2
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Regards to the civilian placing a bearhug on the meth addict .Good job !
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Old January 3, 2007, 07:32 PM   #3
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Thanks for the video.
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Old January 3, 2007, 10:08 PM   #4
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WOW I'm amazed at the self control of the LEO.
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Old January 3, 2007, 10:23 PM   #5
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Self-control?



The cop was scared and confused by the guy not reacting as he "should" have after being shot...the cop didn't know what to do after that and his response was completely disorganized.

The chaos only ended when the citizen got involved and the cuffs were put on the suspect.

This is not a video to show cops what to do, but what not to do.

-- John D.
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Old January 3, 2007, 10:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
The cop was scared and confused by the guy not reacting as he "should" have after being shot...the cop didn't know what to do after that and his response was completely disorganized.
I received a dissimilar impression.

It seemed to me that the officer reached a point where he felt his own physical abilities were enough to occupy the attacker. The officer seemed contented with his ability to counter the lunatics futile & lazy struggle until medical assistance and backup arrived. Just so happened that a fellow citizen came to offer assistance in the mean time.

There was no hard take down. No knee to the neck. No SWAT team. So, maybe not a textbook encounter - agreed.

I think the officer showed great restraint.

I'm sure officers could watch the video and point out plenty of protocol errors, but in the end, the officer in the video is responsible for his own decisions and I guess he felt he had it under control.
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Old January 3, 2007, 10:59 PM   #7
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That's been around for a while . He's surprised that the 45 didn't have greater effect - yet he didn't understand that a stomach hit is a poor hit !!! COM hits , or better upper chest area is what is needed !! Only GOOD hits count !
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Old January 3, 2007, 11:27 PM   #8
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yeah the big thing with what everybody thinx as the .45 is one shot and it blows them off theyre feet, but he was HIGH on drugs, and if i was in a similar situation i would try to fire repeatedly just because of what i have heard of methheads and cokeheads being able to do to you. That drug addict was confused, high and resisting and damn lucky he didnt get killed that night.
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Old January 3, 2007, 11:30 PM   #9
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I am not a LEO, but my training has been to place rounds in the area bounded by the nipples and chin. I have also been trained to never fire a single shot and wait to see if it had the desired effect. A single round from any handgun will rarely produce the desired results. Whether the officer was showing restraint or fear or bad judgement, he was definitely placeing his life in danger.
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Old January 4, 2007, 12:16 AM   #10
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...but the 45acp is the ultimate "MAN STOPPER". My god,how dare the perp not die.He was shot with a 45! I think the video has been tampered with and that the guy was really shot with the whimpy 9mm.I'm afraid there will have to be a full 85 billion dollar government study and investigation to clairify this. :barf:
(well,it's time to start bashing the 45acp for being too puney)
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Old January 4, 2007, 12:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Self-control?
I meant in terms of controlling his temper. I imagine in that sort of situation (combative man comes at you with a knife) many people would have shot that man dead. This officer managed to handle the situation without anyone dying.

Quote:
I think the officer showed great restraint.
Yes, restraint is the word I should have used.
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Old January 4, 2007, 05:38 AM   #12
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Anyone who doesn't agree that the officer was definitely confused after the shooting needs to watch it again. You can tell in how long it takes him to take the man down. From how he talked to his physical actions you could tell the officer felt sorry for the guy who just tried to kill him. Things ended great for all but the officer took greater risk than he should have and it was due to being confused after the shot IMO.
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Old January 4, 2007, 07:47 AM   #13
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I just can't believe that big ol' Cop didn't cave in the bad guys face with one good punch - he certainly had the chance...
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Old January 4, 2007, 12:42 PM   #14
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i think that cop had too many morals, and that bg SHOULD have taken on more lead then he did. Cop seemed confused about what was goin on, and it is a high stress sitiation, but still that coke head refused to give up and things could have turned out alot worse on either partys side.
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Old January 4, 2007, 01:21 PM   #15
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So when that old FBI report came out that said "knock-down power is a myth," and "it takes nearly a minute to bleed down to incapacitation with a single GSW from a .45 through soft tissue," they were telling the TRUTH, huh? They weren't kidding, were they?

That FBI report has been the subject of SO MUCH criticism, but this video shows that it's really TRUE! A .45 (or any pistol, for that matter) cannot be relied upon to stop a charging threat! SO MANY THINGS can happen in the time it takes the assailant to bleed out.

What gets me about this is, what was it that FINALLY brought the guy down? The cop using a well-placed foot sweep and takedown technique! MARTIAL ARTS is what stopped him!!! This goes to show that all these people who focus their training on ONLY firing a pistol are NOT training to their maximum potential, and they are NOT ready to take down a charging threat.

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Old January 4, 2007, 02:10 PM   #16
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Good video

I saw that on cops a long time ago. I do not think I realized it was a .45.

How the hell do you keep running around like a nut after taking one in the gut like that? He must have been on some serious drugs.

That video is worth re-watching.
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Old January 4, 2007, 02:11 PM   #17
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First of all shooting a guy in the gut and waiting for him to "bleed out" is not a very good self defense plan. As you can see the BG remained very wel able to continue the attack. Now if the copp would have placed the same round or another in the BG's chest, taking out one or both of his lungs, like he should have, the BG would have a hard time continuing because he wouldn't be able to breathe. I am just glad he wasn't hurt or killed as it very easily could have happened and also that he learned from this and what to do different next time. Not trying to be a computer commando just calling it as I see it.
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Old January 4, 2007, 02:11 PM   #18
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In the same situation I think I'd be alittle confused also. But where the cop stopped I would have continued, I would have put 8 little holes in his chest. then if he didn't stop i'd reload and put 8 more. You can't really think your going to stop someone hopped up on dope if you shot them one time in the stomach thats a stupid assumption.
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Old January 4, 2007, 03:10 PM   #19
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I guess you guys are not hunters . How many times have you heard of a hunter gut shooting a deer and either losing the deer or having to track it for very long distances.And that's with rifles !
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Old January 4, 2007, 03:38 PM   #20
Para Bellum
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caliber means almost nothing

Quote:
...but the 45acp is the ultimate "MAN STOPPER". My god,how dare the perp not die.He was shot with a 45! I think the video has been tampered with and that the guy was really shot with the whimpy 9mm.I'm afraid there will have to be a full 85 billion dollar government study and investigation to clairify this.:barf:
(well,it's time to start bashing the 45acp for being too puney)
Agreed. That would never have happened with a 9x19mm or a 7,62x25 Tokarev!
(JUST KIDDING, pleeeez)

Quote:
I just can't believe that big ol' Cop didn't cave in the bad guys face with one good punch - he certainly had the chance...
He who has not fought for his life in CQB yet shall not crtitzise a man who did and could avoid a killing and being killed alike.

Quote:
That FBI report has been the subject of SO MUCH criticism, but this video shows that it's really TRUE! A .45 (or any pistol, for that matter) cannot be relied upon to stop a charging threat!
neither a .308, a .223 or a 12ga slug. Sad but true. If you want to life you have to keep shooting until the threat no longer is a threat.

Quote:
What gets me about this is, what was it that FINALLY brought the guy down? The cop using a well-placed foot sweep and takedown technique! MARTIAL ARTS is what stopped him!!! This goes to show that all these people who focus their training on ONLY firing a pistol are NOT training to their maximum potential, and they are NOT ready to take down a charging threat.

Train, train, train!
Absolutely. What saves your life at handgun distance is a cold-blooded well placed CNS-hit or multiple COM hits while you move and fight hand to hand. A guy trying to kill you at closest range won't wait for you to succeed stopping him...

Quote:
How the hell do you keep running around like a nut after taking one in the gut like that? He must have been on some serious drugs.
Unfortunately not. Many man don't even realize that they have already been shot in a CQB-fight. The body want's to survive and get out of trouble and if pain is in the way, the body temporarily shuts the pain off. klick and you keep fighting no matter how lethal your wound might be in the end.
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Old January 4, 2007, 03:56 PM   #21
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Aside from everything else that has been said.....

Why was the guy pulled over?

What gave the cop the right to ask to search the vehicle? The fact that it was not legally registered, or the issue of registration?

I am more troubled with the reasons for the stop, than the reaction of the officer once in the situation. The guy made a move, but was he provoked by an unjust stop?

I am not siding with anyone here, simply asking the, what I consider to be, OBVIOUS.
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Old January 4, 2007, 04:08 PM   #22
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seems to me cop asked to search the truck, man complied THEN when his coke stash was found out he went at him with a knife. I think he was high on drugs, cause while people are erradic after they have been shot he charged a effing cop with a knife. Then he grabbed the radio and pitched it and kept on refusing when it was a cop for christs sake! Not a cop, dont know protocall but i always thought once a person allowed the cop to search, that it was all legal.
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Old January 4, 2007, 04:52 PM   #23
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There are plenty of cases of bad guys taking several "good hits" and continuing. (lots of good guys too)

All the talk of stopping power lull people into the false belief that 1 or two shots (double-tap) will take care of the attacker

People need to be aware...and understand that multiple good hits will be required and may still not get the job done in time...no matter what caliber or magic bullet you are using.

You may still end up grappling with the bad guy, you may get cut, etc unless you are moving off the line as well.

Even if you shoot them multiple times

One shot might be enough (unlikely)

But you should not bet your life on it...oand don't be surprised if it doesn't even seem to have any effect.

Shoot them until they are down...and then watch them closely
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Old January 4, 2007, 10:47 PM   #24
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The officer did not do a good job and here is why.

This man obviously had a knife in his hand and was out inflict severe injury on the officer. The officer should have shot the man 2-3 times all at once.

Shooting him once only provoked him further and the man could have had more hidden weapons.

When you fire on a person, you always try to place at least two, but preferably three, shots. What if this man was able to use the knife on the officer afterwards, would you still be saying he did a good job?
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Old January 5, 2007, 05:14 AM   #25
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if i fire on a person, its gonna be enough to put him/possibly her on their back. Drugs have gotten soo potent, that these methheads dont care about anything, they just act and even boozed up guys can still cause alot of damage with lead in their gut region.

Even if i had a .454 with big expanding bullets i would fire atleast 3 times, if he was still standing after the first 2 that is.

Where we goto hunt is very very full of drugged out people, who fit 30 people in a trailer that is surrounded with add ons to look somewhat like a house and i never really thought about it, but its a good thing we generally keep noisemakers with us all the time.

I usually like to have the .357 under the seat and ready to go, but the 9mm with its bottomless clip is nothing to laugh at either.
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