The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 29, 2006, 03:26 PM   #1
101guns
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 226
Contender Pistol in .308: a beginner's question

This will be my first contender and I purchased the reduced recoil cartridge Remington is now making in .308. I understand Federal makes a reduced load now to but my questions are these:

1. What type recoil should I expect?

2. Do you recommend one hand on the forearm? Or, what hold do you suggest?

Sorry for the stupid questions.
101guns is offline  
Old December 29, 2006, 04:49 PM   #2
tulsamal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2004
Location: Vinita, OK
Posts: 2,473
If it is .308 Winchester, then you must be talking about an Encore, not a Contender. Right?

Recoil depends on many things including gun weight. If you don't have a scope and rings on it, it is going to kick quite a bit harder. More weight is good!

I shoot an Encore just like a .44 Magnum or other handgun. Standard two-handed grip. The front forend is mostly useful when you have a chance to rest the gun on a backpack, rolled sleeping bag, etc. Or from a rest at the range.

Gregg
tulsamal is offline  
Old December 29, 2006, 05:13 PM   #3
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 2,769
I have an encore in .308 win, they do not make the contender in .308 win.

It never lets me forget that I am shooting a rifle round out of a pistol....

Unless you are going for big ( elk, moose, bear... ) game, get a 7mm08, .260 rem or .243 win.

Without a brake it will be comparable to shooting a 12 ga shotgun with slugs ONE handed..If you like that kind of pain then please go ahead and get one.

A brake tames the recoil significantly but the noise is incredible.

sometimes less is more....
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old December 29, 2006, 06:36 PM   #4
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,829
Give me a brake!

A muzzle brake of some kind will help tremdously. It will not eliminate the fierce recoil, but it will help you control it better. I shoot a Contender, and while the .308 would have to be an Encore model, some things are the same. Recoil is a very personal thing. Since you are shooting a single shot, control for fast follow up shots is not a consideration. All you really need to do is be able to hang on to the gun, and not suffer injury.

My 14" Contender .45-70 has bitten s couple of inexperienced shooters when they fired it. Even after watching me shoot it, one fellow had a chunk taken out of his nose whith the edge of the red dot sight! The barrel is ported, and to me the recoil is more back than up. However, not everyone would agree!

My 10" .44 Mag barrel (unported) has alot more muzzle flip than the .45-70. For pete's sake, get some kind of porting/muzzle brake on your .308! Even with "reduced recoil" loads it will slam back into your hand pretty hard. Expect to have your middle finger wacked by the back of the trigger guard! Remember you are shooting a RIFLE cartridge! A shooting glove might help you as well. Just remember to hold on. Nothing is quite as embarassing as losing your grip on the gun in front of witnesses! And dropping them don't do them any good either!

Let the gun go for a ride when it fires, just hold on enough to control the direction (don't let it come back and hit you), and don't drop it. Forget about trying to hold it so you can watch the bullet strike through the scope (you can't).

Enjoy it, but remember, alot of shooting a heavy kicker like this can result in nerve/muscle/tendon damage if you don't do it right and take precautions. And here is a tip, you will not shoot it more than once without hearing protection! A polite thing is to ensure everyone in the area also has adequate hearing protection before unleashing the blast from that hand cannon!

If you don't handload, look into it seriously. Being able to tailor the loads for what you want (reduced recoil, blast, etc) is one of the big advantages.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old December 29, 2006, 06:49 PM   #5
RoyP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2002
Location: corning,new york
Posts: 213
I had an encore in 7mm-08 with a 10" barrel.off the bench,both hands on the grip.I got about a foot and a half of muzzle jump and two foot of flame.It was awesome.sold it in a moment of weakness and wish I never had.The recoil is quick with the rifle cartridge so its over before yuo even realize it kicked.I just picked up a lone eagle in 7mm-08.hoping to shoot it this weekend.If you find you don't like it you can always swap the barrel off for a smaller caliber.
RoyP is offline  
Old December 29, 2006, 07:38 PM   #6
hpg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 14, 2002
Location: in the Bluegrass State
Posts: 1,610
If it is indeed a handgun, can you say hand held cannon?
__________________
NRA member
Semper Paratus
hpg is offline  
Old December 30, 2006, 06:07 AM   #7
101guns
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 226
Thanks, I think I will invest in some Uncle Mike's shooting gloves before I sight it in
101guns is offline  
Old December 30, 2006, 06:40 AM   #8
blume357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 2, 2005
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 3,943
Maybe a good helmet with face shield too!

Anybody want to post a picture of one of these?
blume357 is offline  
Old December 31, 2006, 10:56 AM   #9
Ozzieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 5,027
30-30

Never having shot a contender like gun in 308 I cant tell you what its like but I have a contender in .223 and 30-30.
I was very UN-impressed with the 30-30. The main reason is that the barrel is to short for slow burning powder used in most rifle cases and most of it burned outside the barrel, which in it self make a great show.
For me the 44 mag loaded to earth shattering pressures (Remember kids don’t try this at home) is the hardest kicking contender that I have shot and it always brings a smile to my face.
With hard won lesions shooting rifle cases in a contender, to get the most from the gun you MUST hand load and there are many many loads listed in all books for contenders which will help with short barrels. Manufactures don’t load riffle cases for hand gun barrel lengths.
My best round is with the 223 and 2400 powder, I can get a 40 gr bullet over 2800 FPS. Hit a ground hog with that and I will assure you his days are numbered.
I have tried to load the 30-30 but shooting through water jugs I was never able to get bullets to open. 1900 FPS at the barrel is just not enough to get rifle bullets to perform very well.
What length of barrel do you have?
Going from 10 to 14 inches increased the velocity of 30-30 by over 15% just with the 4 inches.
Again not having fired or worked with 308 I don’t know what luck you’re going to have but the 30-30 didn’t kick any harder than a light 44 special revolver.
To answer your last, two handed hold just like a normal hand gun but set down and shoot across sand bags.
Ozzieman is offline  
Old December 31, 2006, 12:55 PM   #10
101guns
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 226
Great info Ozzie
101guns is offline  
Old December 31, 2006, 01:54 PM   #11
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 2,769
As far as getting good performance out of a rifle caliber in an encore, please remember that the ruger scout rifle has only about a 16" barrel, and the socom rifle has the same, VS an encore with a 15" barrel so the performance is still very impressive and about the same.

I am getting 2650 FPS ( 150 gr NBT ) out of my .308 encore with a 15" barrel...far more than ordinary handgun rounds in terms of long range performance.
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old January 1, 2007, 09:11 PM   #12
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,829
Compared to regular handguns

The performance of rifle round from short (for a rifle) 14" barrels is very impressive.

Rifles with short (<20") barrels are properly carbines, and performance is sacrificed to a degree compared to full length rifle barrels.

The difference in performance between a 14" Contender and a 16" carbine would be slight. Proper tailoring of the ammo for the shorter barrel minimises it. But don't think you are getting the full rifle performance. We give up some velocity for portability. There is no free lunch. Want to get the absolute most out of your round? Use a 26in (or even longer for some rounds) barrel. Want something you can carry eaiser?, go shorter, just realize that you are traiding off.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old January 1, 2007, 09:33 PM   #13
Socrates
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 5,866
Thompson lists the .308 encore at 4.5 pounds, with 15" barrel.
With 150 grain bullet, going 2650, thats 37 ft lbs of recoil,
at a slow 23 fps.

Thats what the 400 grain XTP @ 1350 recoils at out of my FA 83. Piece of cake with gloves.. Enjoy.

That is by the way, near 3x a 44 magnum, but grip design may affect recoil immensely.
Without custom grips, fitted for my hands, I couldn't shoot the 475 before, and, almost sold it.

Make sure your encore grips fit your hands...

S
Socrates is offline  
Old January 2, 2007, 02:09 AM   #14
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,615
An Encore in .308 is a very potent round for your first go-around with a single shot pistol.
Why do you need the .308?
With a muzzle brake rounds like .308, .260, 243 are LOUD! Louder than anything else at the range other than a .50 BMG maybe.
Without a brake, recoil is tough. Not just the slap the palm kind of recoil, but the wrist twisting muzzle rise.
My Encore is .44 Rem Mag that I cut down to 9". Plenty of power with the .44 in a cartridge that was designed for handguns. Recoil and muzzle blast are very tolerable.
It's much easier and cheaper to learn with a .44 and then move up in power later.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old January 2, 2007, 08:24 AM   #15
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 2,769
Agreed!!! Less is more. The only reason I got my encore in .308 was that I got a great deal on the barrel and the custom brake on it. otherwise I would have gone with a .243.

It tain't fer the faint o' heart.....Do not get wood grips on a rifle caliber encore, wear plugs and muffs at the same time and get a good shooting glove.
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old January 2, 2007, 11:10 AM   #16
dakotashooter2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2005
Posts: 498
Quote:
Without a brake it will be comparable to shooting a 12 ga shotgun with slugs ONE handed..If you like that kind of pain then please go ahead and get one.
????????????????????????????????????????????????

I think somebody is trying to scare you. I personally find the recoil from this round much more comfortable in the 15" encore than in a rifle. Yea there is some muzzle jump but the experince is not the monster some are making it out to be. I also don't see the need for a muzzle break on this cartridge but to each is own. Just in case you wondering I am no big brute. Just a 5'9", 150 lb (130 when I bought it) arthritic middle ager. I think too many guys try to "tame" these guns rather than just "control" them. Now the encore in 45/70 is where I find recoil starting to get interesting.
dakotashooter2 is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 04:46 AM   #17
Socrates
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 5,866
YAWN!! ONLY 38 POUNDS OF RECOIL???
TRY A MAN'S GUN, LIKE 62 POUNDS OF RECOIL....


s
Socrates is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 06:34 AM   #18
WSM MAGNUM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 746
Quote:
If it is .308 Winchester, then you must be talking about an Encore, not a Contender. Right?
Quote:
I have an encore in .308 win, they do not make the contender in .308 win.

Unless he is talking about a G2 Contender. A .308 would be too much pressure for a Contender. A .308 for a Contender would be possible if it derives from 30-30 case or small diameter rifle cases.

If you think a .308 is a cannon, check out the calibers that JDJ industries put out.
www.sskindustries.com
__________________
Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member

If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
WSM MAGNUM is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 06:43 AM   #19
WSM MAGNUM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 746
Blume357, heres one. This picture shows my 22-250 barrel on it.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...1&d=1165359519
__________________
Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member

If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
WSM MAGNUM is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 09:34 AM   #20
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 2,769
They do not make the contender or the G2 contender in .308 win/ 7.62X51 nato.

too much pressure, it is an encore caliber only.

SSk and several others like bullberry and E Arthur brown make some in REAL calibers....how's a .375 H&H pistol sound? Anyone want a .458 win mag with a 15" barrel?

Me neither....LOL
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 11:07 AM   #21
WSM MAGNUM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 746
T/C does not make the barrel in .308 for Contenders or G2`s. I meant to say you can get .308 for G2`s from other sources. G2`s can handle the pressure.
__________________
Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member

If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
WSM MAGNUM is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 11:12 AM   #22
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 2,769
WSM,

Where can you get .308 win G2 barrels? I looked at a few places and they are not listed..
for example from www.eabco.com:

These are the barrels listed from their custom shop.

17 Mach 2 Rimfire (+$30)
17 HMR (+$30)
17 K Hornet (+$30),
.17 Ackley Bee (+$30)
.17 Mach IV (+$30)
.17 Rem (+$30)
204 Ruger
22 Long Rifle
22 LR Match
22 Win Mag
22 Rem Jet
22 Hornet
22 K Hornet
218 Bee
219 Zipper
221 Fireball
222 Rem
222 Rem Mag
223 Rem
223 Ack Imp 40º
6mm TCU
256 Win Mag
25-20 Win
25-35 Win
6.5mm TCU
6.8mm Rem SPC
7mm TCU
7-30 Waters
30 M1 Carbine
30 Herrett
300 Whisper
30/30 Win
30/30 Ackley Imp
32-20 Win (.308 Groove)
32 HR Mag (.308 Groove)
9mm Luger (.357 Groove)
357 Mag
357 Maximum
357/44 Bain and Davis
357 Herrett
35 Rem
38-55 Win (.375 Groove)
375 Win
375 JDJ
44 Rem Mag
445 SuperMag
45 ACP
45 Colt
45/70 Govt
410 Ga Vent Rib (+$30)
28 Ga Vent Rib (+$30)

Not one single .308 win based cartridge in the group..no .243, .260, 7mm-08, .308win, .338 fed or .358 win.

I may be mistaken but I have always been told that the G2 cannot handle that much pressure.
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 11:38 AM   #23
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,615
No one is going to build a barrel for a G2 in .308/.243/30-06.
There is just not enough beef in a G2 and any barrel built for a G2 will also fit the original Contender so no.
The JDJ cartridges were designed to max out the original Contender's performance. So if it has to be a Contender/G2, and you want top performance, go to SSK's website and pick your caliber.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 11:43 AM   #24
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,615
If your serious about single shots, join this site:
http://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x
You have to join it to read it, but it is well worth it.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old January 3, 2007, 02:35 PM   #25
WSM MAGNUM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 746
mikejonestkd, the link I posted on SSKindustries will have the barrels. They are actually necked down .444 cases. Do not confuse with the actual .308 Winchester cartridge.
__________________
Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member

If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
WSM MAGNUM is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13556 seconds with 7 queries