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Old December 26, 2006, 12:05 PM   #26
FirstFreedom
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I don't believe you said what KIND of .22 caliber you were using? Got the caliber (.22), the load, and the bullet, but what case? .22 remington fireball, .219 Zipper, .218 Bee, .219 Donaldson Wasp, .22 K-hornet, .22-.243 Middlestead, or what?
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Old December 26, 2006, 12:17 PM   #27
Tom Matiska
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Most hunters who do this here in PA have spent the summer drilling holes in wood chucks at hundreds of yards. Well placed shots are par for their course. One character I've crossed pathes with used his pet 17 Rem on Bambi without fail. It could reliably turn several inches of neck into jelly..... clean ethical kills with no debate about it.

Yes, it was and I beleive still is allowed by PA game law.
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Old December 26, 2006, 01:31 PM   #28
juliet charley
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I don't believe you said what KIND of .22 caliber you were using?
22.250--you didn't read the entire thread.
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Old December 26, 2006, 02:40 PM   #29
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Put it in the right place and you can kill em with a spoon. Practice it and you can do it every single time.
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Old December 28, 2006, 04:40 AM   #30
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That you used a .22-250 is no surprise to me. My sister took one of the heaviest bodied bucks I have ever seen this year with a .220 swift. One shot in the right place will get it done pretty much every time. She's taken two large whitetail bucks w/two shots in two years from the same gun.
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Old December 28, 2006, 01:28 PM   #31
roy reali
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Deer Size

Maybe deer in some parts of the country are bigger and tougher then in other parts. This could explain the controvery.
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Old December 28, 2006, 07:18 PM   #32
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Some of it has to do with the deer size but I would guess that most of it has to do with bullet construction, SHOT PLACEMENT, velocity, range, SHOT PLACEMENT, the shot angle, SHOT PLACEMENT and......did I mention SHOT PLACEMENT?

Some people can do it consistently others should NEVER attempt to take a deer with a .22 centerfire...and we all know which camp we are each in...
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Old December 28, 2006, 07:35 PM   #33
roy reali
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Re:mikejonestkd

The deer along the California coast are small. A dog could just about retrieve one. Here in Nevada the deer are considerably larger. This is espically true of the ones that feed in the alfalfa fields.

Once in California I was scouting some woods with a fellow that had just moved there from Missouri. We found some deer tracks. He could not believe how small they were. He asked if we had some pygmy subspecies of deer in California.

Using a rimfire for deer is illegal in California. But for some of our deer it wouldn't be too outrageous.
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Old December 28, 2006, 09:07 PM   #34
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I don't know what to think about all of this.I have had a couple of failures with a 140 grain .284 bullet at about 3150 fps and a 150 grain .308 at about 3300 fps.The 7MM was a Barnes X and the other was a 300 WBY factory load.Hornady bullet I think.Both were lung shots on approx.120 pound deer.Neither expanded resulting in long tracking and dragging.I'm not sure a 22 caliber bullet doesn't deform and expand much easier, perhaps with better results if no rib is hit on entry.I have also considered going larger perhaps to a 35 Whelen or similar wildcat.Beats me.I took one yesterday with a 3 1/2 00 Buck.Make enough holes I don't guess it matters.
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Old December 29, 2006, 11:12 PM   #35
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casnblast--you called it..stirred it all up!

Congratulations on a successfull hunt.

I say hunt the way you want within the confines of the law.
To hell with the you have to have a 7mm magnum to kill a deer crowd. What good is all that gun if you can't put the bullet were it needs to be.

I know guys who used to poach deer with .22lr's and claim to get instant kills, never actually saw it done, but the meat was in the freezer.



hmmmm.....I may need to get one of those flame suits. Are they expensive?
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Old December 29, 2006, 11:43 PM   #36
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It aint the arrow you've got to worry about...it is the In'jin.

I've seen plenty of deer taken with the .223, even a few with the .204 Ruger, and they all fell like they were hit with Thor's hammer.

These people shoot MUCH better than your average internet commando wannabe.

I used to be very critical of these people, but after watching them in action, they have nothing left to prove to me (not that they ever did.) Using a small for animal caliber is not for everyone. But for those who can, get off their back.
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Old December 30, 2006, 07:09 PM   #37
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zero junk, standard 2 3/4 00 buck is PLENTY murder on deer as it is, and well 3 1/2" 00 buck with what? 15 pellets? is damn near identical to the 10 gauge loading, it just doesnt pattern the same or so thats what the hype is on 10 guage over 12 guage. I have scene 1 deer that was killed at 20-25 yards with 1 standard remington double ot with 9 pellets, and you know what? the shoulder was blown clear out of the socket, and the deer was dead before he could take another breathe. Frankly you can kill a deer with a .22lr, not reccomended not smart and not ethical by anybodys means, but i think .223 class weapons are plenty ethical with the RIGHT bullets for the job that dont shatter or the like. Same friend who got the deer with his 00 buck load shot a deer 2 years ago with a 30 06 and a 150 grainer, witch nailed the spine and DESTROYED the bullet, and the spine. Now he switched to the federal fusion witch keeps the jacket to the core so there will be less chance of the explosion, but none the less i dont see how anybody can say that taking a deer with a .223 class weapon is unethical.

Last edited by Daves-got-guns; December 31, 2006 at 06:57 PM.
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Old December 31, 2006, 12:34 AM   #38
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Howdy folks, read the first page and browsed over the second page, but decided to post before reading to completely , so just ignore if this is a duplicate to somebody else.

Anyway, the southern deer tend to be much smaller than northern deer and therefore a .223 or .22-250 is no problem given the right bullet and shot placement for southern (smaller) deer. Up north where I am from, if you shoot a large whitetail or mulie with a .223 all you are doing is breaking the law and most likely wounding it. It is illegal in most northern states to shoot with anything smaller then .243 or 30-30, just because of the size of the animals.

You said that your deer was in the low 100 range, heck we have does that are pushing 200 up here on a common basis. Personally a .243 with 95 or 100 grain bullets are a must up here as the minimum. you try to shoot them with a body shot from a .223 and I guarantee you that 9 out of 10 times they will take multiple follow up shots before going down. Head shots are a whole different ball game.

congrats on the deer, but if you go hunting up north bring something a little bigger.
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Old December 31, 2006, 01:29 AM   #39
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Growin' up I was a big fan of Robert Ruarks book "Use Enough Gun".


but I also think most folk know what works best for them......congrats on the deer .
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Old December 31, 2006, 07:05 PM   #40
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i was thinking about my "thoughts" on if its geared for people, it will generally work on deer and vice versa, but theres a few differences in how a .223 is usually used against a person, atleast in the army. They have burst fire, so they are sending multiple bullets down range quick and the m4 platform or even a ar15 is generally meant for tight spaces, so closer combat typicly, and well when your hunting deer you usually are taking shots not much further then 150, but typicly over 50 yards and you cant put alot of lead downrange that far and that acurately enough to have the same effect that it would on close quarters. This is from, the bits and pieces i have heard about why the .223 was chosen over .308 so bear with me folks im no expert! Also putting alot of shells downrange on deer usually destroys alot of meat... this is all speculation on my part, dont get pist at me and call me a idiot ive heard enough of that b/s on this forum. Still though, if you are a damn good shot and its within 100 yards i wouldnt mind trying a .223 in a state where it is legal.
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Old December 31, 2006, 08:27 PM   #41
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D-g-g, with critters, the idea is a clean, ethical kill. With Bad Guys, it doesn't really matter...

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Old January 1, 2007, 12:57 AM   #42
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yup...As stated earlier, my 7mm mag is my deer gun of choice. I traded my 300 win mag for this 22-250 I shot this deer with. Next deer I shoot with it, I'll post pix of the internal damage. See guys, I used to belong to the big bore club too. I still love my 7mm. I had a shoulder problem (rotator cup) that was really giving me heck, so I decided to get something fun that would do the job on bambi down south. If I were mule deer hunting or hunting larger deer, I'd use the 7mm and not think twice. Anyway, thanks for the lively discussion... For those of you unfamiliar w/ 22-250, think of a it as a 223 mag. Fatter case, longer overall length. Happy Hunting!
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Old January 1, 2007, 08:58 AM   #43
Daves-got-guns
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i would loove to buy a 220 swift rifle, but they just dont last as long as i would hope! 22-250? is that a similar concept?
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Old January 1, 2007, 10:53 AM   #44
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Dave,

the .22-250 is just below the .220 swift in term of velocity, but not by much, both are significantly faster than the .223 rem with the same bullet weights.

The .22-250 is THE varmint round that the others are compared to...

I have no doubt that with a fairly heavy bullet with fairly tough construction a .22-250 would be fine on most deer in the hands of an excellent shot.

Most of us would be better served by a larger caliber and heavier bullet ( its the whole ' margin of error ' thingy )

My personal favorites for deer are in the .243 win, 6mm rem, .250 savage, .257 roberts, 6.5 mm swede, .260 rem class of cartridges. They don't kick much, they tend to be fairly accurate, and the deer drop quickly.

That being said I use a .308 win for my deer hunting cause it what I have..
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Old January 1, 2007, 12:50 PM   #45
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Yeah, I was thinking 220 swift too, but components are harder to find, and more expensive. Benchmark powder is getting velocities right up there close to 220 swift. Mrawesome22 had just loaded some 50 grainers that are exceeding 4000 fps. I shoot 55 gr 'ers that are 3700+. If I had more twist, like a 1 in 10, or 1 in 9, I'd shoot 70 grainers. however, that is too much twist for a 55. That's a whole 'nuther discussion. Send me a p.m. and I'll expand on what I've learned.
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Old January 2, 2007, 03:18 AM   #46
T. O'Heir
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"...from a varmint gun..." It isn't the gun. It's the bullet. A 7mm mag is too much gun for deer anyway.
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Old January 2, 2007, 04:03 AM   #47
Daves-got-guns
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yeah, i know a guy who has a 7mm that "patterns" at the 100, and while i have had similar coffee-related issues with my 45-70, it has no scope and i can probably get minute and a half of arivial, atleast out to 150. Muzzle blast from the 7mm is RIDICULAS, and my 45 70 with the stubby isnt quite that loud. I think 220 swift is a neato cartridge, but the barrels wear out premature compared to other cartridges, or so ive heard from a few folks.
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Old January 2, 2007, 10:58 AM   #48
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I really don't think the 7 mm is too much gun. My wife shot her first deer w/ it using a 139 gr. BTSP. I get 1/2" moa w/ it off the bench consistantly. BUT, I don't have to worry about flinching w/ the 22-250. That's what makes it fun. I can shoot it knowing I'm not going to blow out my eardrums, or get the crap knocked out of me. When I pull the trigger, the bullet is going where I put it...every time. That confidence in every shot makes the shot happen. It's not being cocky...Just reality.
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Old January 2, 2007, 12:45 PM   #49
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I don't have to worry about flinching w/ the 22-250. That's what makes it fun. I can shoot it knowing I'm not going to blow out my eardrums, or get the crap knocked out of me. When I pull the trigger, the bullet is going where I put it
I would consider any gun that did this too much gun for deer, or any other game animal for that matter. I'm not saying that you did this with you 7mm but it is a good reason not to buy into the hunting rags and their magnum philosophy. I prefer the .270 for deer and the minimum caliber for deer in my State is .243/6mm. If the .224 caliber was legal for hunting in my State I don't know if I'd try it but like it was said before it is placement of the bullet not caliber that usually gets the job done.
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Old January 2, 2007, 02:38 PM   #50
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I can put 3 shots almost touching w/ that 7mm. BTW, that IS my Colorado gun...That's why I own it. My wife shoots it, and before (smart move here...key word...before...) I got married, I purchased a Browning 300 Win mag Stainless Stalker. Yup...I bought into the "must have magnum to kill elk" philosophy. Not that it's a bad idea though. I'll probably buy another one when my kids get bigger and I get to go elk hunting again. It's just these little South Texas Deer don't need a mag to kill em. The 224 is plenty gun to get the job done...well, and they are legal in TX...
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