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Old December 13, 2006, 01:50 AM   #1
WeedWacker
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long range elk caliber

Is a standard winchester .30-'06 round sufficient for ranges out to 300 m for elk? I have mostly hunted whitetails in wisconsin and we took whitetails out to 220 yards with a .30-30 but now I live in Idaho and the opportunity for larger game has arisen.

On another note can a .308 win mag be used in closer ranges for elk as well (out to 250 m)?

(Not an experienced shooter in these calibers as you can probably tell)
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Old December 13, 2006, 03:02 AM   #2
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Yes to both questions. Enjoy beautiful Idaho.
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Old December 13, 2006, 04:46 AM   #3
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Idaho is kinda weird. I live in lewiston which has an average yearly temperature of around 50 degrees F yet drive far wnough south and you have fantastic skiing. Lewiston is also plains with a canyon on a river. Almost exactly ike iowa when you get out of the valley. But drive up north to the montana border and you have mountains and elk as well as antelope, mulies, and whitetail. Surprisingly I was working at a state park last summer and the guys there were telling me about a black bear that came walzing through (not through the campground area) (Winchester Lake State Park, home/birthplace of of the Winchester rifle according to the locals )
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Old December 13, 2006, 12:24 PM   #4
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If you are used to the .30-30 then go with the .30-06. The 06 will be effective on Elk past 300 yards with the right bullet and proper shot placement. The 06 will recoil less than the .300 Win Mag so jumping from a .30-30 to a magnum rifle might not be the best idea. Ammo is cheaper as well in the 06, I've been picking up Federal ammo with either 150 or 180 grain bullets for around $10 a box.

I'd hate to see anyone develop a flinch from recoil by recommending a magnum caliber to start with. There are products out there to reduce the recoil of all rifles, but I've never liked the noise from muzzle brakes, so I went with a PAST recoil pad. I can shoot rifles all day at the range I normally could only shoot at most 10 rounds at one sitting.

You can still use your .30-30 for Elk as well as long as you shorten up the distances that you shoot to 150 yards or less. After 150 yards the .30-30 just starts loosing too much energy to be an effective elk cartridge. 150-170 grain flat points or that new 160 grain Leverevolution ammo is what I'd stick with for elk with a .30-30.
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Old December 13, 2006, 12:43 PM   #5
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Use "enough gun"

50bmg
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Old December 13, 2006, 12:48 PM   #6
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7mm Remington Mag or .300 Win Mag is perfect for 300meter shots on elk. 30/06 is also well suited for those types of shot on elk, plus doesn't ahve the recoil like the magnums have. I would even check out the new .338 federal (supposedly the recoil of a /06 with a little less power than a .338 Mag.

30/06 would be my recommendation though for a good all aroung gun up there. I have a 7mm Rem mag and a .338 Mag and I think they are sometimes too much recoil and noise for their worth compared to my old 03A3 springfield in 30/06. Plus the 30/06 ammo is way cheaper compared to the 7mm rem mag and .338mag.
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Old December 13, 2006, 01:18 PM   #7
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I've shot the winchester supreme gold 12 gauge slugs. Those kick a bit if you stand (hurts like the dickens if you don't have it shouldered right :barf: ) Is that recoil equivalent to the .300 mag?

On another note is the .338 federal the same as the .338 Lapua?

And I know a place that had a M99 .50 BMG for sale for $1200. Had a 3x-18x scope and bipod too
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Old December 13, 2006, 01:38 PM   #8
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Weedwacker ,
You have elk very close to Lewiston, no need to go north much. We got one a few years back south of you near Dowrshak reservoir. It was killed with one shot from a 7mm-08. If memory serves me it was a 140 grain bullet.
Your in a good area for hunting and fishing. A 30-06 is plenty enough for elk but if you feel you need more why not a 338 mag? It is a very good sometimes over looked caliber, sending a 200 grain bullet on par with a '06's 150.
YOU have elk and deer all around you in Lewiston, enjoy.
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Old December 13, 2006, 05:31 PM   #9
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M99 .50 BMG for sale for $1200. Had a 3x-18x scope and bipod too
Way overkill for elk, plus find out if it is legal to even hunt with. I know you can't hunt with 50 BMG in Colorado. Plus with the weight of those rifles who would want to carry one for very far.

338 Federal isn't even close to a 338 Lapua, the 338 Fed is based off of a 308 Winchester case or 7.62 NATO. .300 Win is probably close to the 12 gage slugs, but I've never shot slugs. I know the 00 Buck can deleiver pretty harsh recoil but it will probably still be different than the .300 Win. I think you will be best served by the good old .30-06.

Trapp you are not helping things!
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Old December 13, 2006, 06:04 PM   #10
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If you ever go griz hunting take a 12ga rifled slug gun with the winchester supreme gold sabots for when walking to your stand. They pack enough punch to easily take them out in close quarters and if the gun is modified correctly can be fired over the shoulder while running (the supreme gold has about 1900 fps muzzel velocity while the platinum tips have 1700 or so) And as for the hunting location we have freinds up north that my dad has gone horseback hunting withand they sometimes cross over into montana to try to get some deer or antelope. I've been to Dworshak and it does look like elk counry. Oh and I went camping with one of my supervisors at round lake and saw a bull moose wading around. My supervisor was surprised to see one that far south that time of year (was about 100 degrees that day )

back to topic:

if I were to get a .300 ein mag I think I would go with a TPG-1 if I could afford it and probably a savage 10FP-LE2A if I decide on the 7.62x51.

Would a 7.62x39 work on elk? (speculation and doesn't need an answer. I wouldn't think so but then again what do I know)
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Old December 13, 2006, 06:09 PM   #11
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if the gun is modified correctly can be fired over the shoulder while running
This is a mod I simply MUST see! Is there a rear view mirror on it for thwunking a Charging, Predatory Griz successfully?

Also, what is the advantage of these special Winchester Goldfinger Killer Sabots over say, Brenneke Classics, in Griz CQB encounters?
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Old December 13, 2006, 06:58 PM   #12
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Back pack with a chain ammunition style minigun. Flip the switch and start running

Edit: forgot to reply to your other question: The sabots are copper and have a higher energy retention than most other ammunition. Also you can hit a target with a 10' diameter at i think he tested 400 yards so that sabot is going where you want it. Kicks like a mule tho and I take the platinum tips for deer because they are lighter = less recoil and they have a FLAT trajectory for sabots. I have used remington, einchester, and some others I can't rememeber right now but I know the winchester supremes are very good performers
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Old December 13, 2006, 07:05 PM   #13
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'06 is plenty for an elk out to 300--no worries at all about the rifle's capabilities... I wouldn't put much faithinto a 7.62x39, however. Not that it couldn't work (this coming from a guy who's been very successful dropping elk with a 6mm Rem), but the 7.62 is a bit under-powered for that big of an animal,

WEEDWACKER>> Alright now, you'd better be coughing up the where-abouts that M99... I could have an easy time justifying that one being added to the vault.
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Old December 13, 2006, 07:11 PM   #14
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A little shop in lewiston I can't remember the name of the store but the name has sportsman on it. I was in there a while ago so good luck finding it

For those who dont' know (not than any of you wouldn't)

Barrett M99 = .50 BMG single shot bolt action
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Old December 13, 2006, 07:34 PM   #15
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Is a standard winchester .30-'06 round sufficient for ranges out to 300 m for elk?
Absolutely!.... Use the new Federal Fusion bullet... or some expensive premium design like Barnes X or Accubonds...

If you want some serious smack with even bigger bullets (200 grains) at even longer ranges, like 400 to 500 yards... I really like the .325WSM...

I also believe you would be very satisfied with 30-06 performance out to 500 yards...

Note: Such long ranges are very, very rarely necessary in elk hunting, and should be avoided unless conditions are very, very good.
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Old December 13, 2006, 08:45 PM   #16
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30-06 if fine in my opinion. Also you asked if the recoil of a 12guage slug is similar to a .300 win mag and I think the magnum slug kicks harder. The .300 mag is pretty tolerable. It has a heck of a boom though. whhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwww
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Old December 14, 2006, 08:30 AM   #17
taylorce1
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Back pack with a chain ammunition style minigun. Flip the switch and start running
Quote:
. Also you can hit a target with a 10' diameter at i think he tested 400 yards so that sabot is going where you want it. Kicks like a mule tho and
Ok thought this was a serious post, but we can have fun anyway. How many deer sized animals would I have to have in a 10' diameter circle at 400 yards to get a clean ethical kill with your shotgun ammo.
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Old December 18, 2006, 10:46 PM   #18
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not for anything only a person not knowing what they were in for, would carry a sabot slug for grizzly. Not to mention running away will just get you killed even faster. If you are going to load slugs for grizzly, its going to be hardcast heat treated full bore size slugs. like at www.dixieslugs.com or at the very least a black magic slug from brennke (sp?)
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Old December 20, 2006, 01:19 AM   #19
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"...Is that recoil equivalent to the .300 mag?..." Depends on the weight if the rifle. However, there's no game in North America that needs a magnum anything to kill. The .30-06 or .308 Win will kill anything you can hit properly. Sight in 3.5" high at 100 with a 165 grain hunting bullet using either calibre and you'll be fine out to about 300. If you can regularly kill a deer at 220 with a .30-30, you're all set.
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Old December 20, 2006, 07:04 AM   #20
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heavy game heavy bullet. .338 win mag 250 grn. and if it kicks to much its motivation to only shoot once.
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Old December 20, 2006, 09:56 PM   #21
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I also think .30-06 or .35 whelen is enough. But .338 win mag is arguably the consummate long range elk cal.
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Old December 20, 2006, 10:24 PM   #22
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I hunted in Montana a few weeks ago with a couple of guys using the 300 Ultra Mag.One was saying that his was zeroed at 100 yards and only down 4 inches at 400 yards.Nonsense.He proceeded to shoot at a good bull at about 400 yards as measured through a range finder and did not touch it.I wonder where he aimed.Whatever caliber you choose,study the ballistic charts and not some sales hype.Sure, some are flatter than others, but none are magic.
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Old December 20, 2006, 10:55 PM   #23
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What dipsticks they are. Spend all that time and money for a big hunt and not know your trajectory...

With a 100 yard zero, you're gonna be about -13" with 150 grainers down to -21" or so with 200 grainers, at 400 yards. And you should zero a laser super duper mag for about 250 or even 300 yards, not 100.... *especially* if you don't know your trajectory like the back of your hand.
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Old December 25, 2006, 05:58 PM   #24
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WeedWacker,

Your 30.06 can take elk but the further the distance is, beyond 250 yards, your shot options decrease. Also, knowing your rounds ballistics is a must.

I hunt elk using a 180 gr. Barnes X in .300 Weatherby. Awesome round with excellent ballistics out to 400 yards. BUT, you rarely need to take a 400 yard shot.

BTW, I'm considering buying another rifle for my first elk hunt in grizzly country (WY) in '07...a Weatherby Accumark in .338-378. I want a little more energy should the need arise.

CK
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Old December 29, 2006, 06:53 PM   #25
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Your 30.06 can take elk but the further the distance is, beyond 250 yards, your shot options decrease. Also, knowing your rounds ballistics is a must.
I can agree with this except the "cutoff" is more like 350 to 400...

There's nothing wrong with any .300 magnum for elk or anything else... except it's expensive...
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