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Old December 1, 2006, 08:27 PM   #1
Mokumbear
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How 'bout this for a 1st time, home defense model?

I read the following on Wikipedia:

Home Security model

The model 500 HS410, or "Home Security" model, is only available in .410 bore, and is specifically designed for defensive use. It comes with a youth sized stock, a vertical foregrip with, in some versions, a built in laser sight, and a special muzzle brake and spreader choke on an 18.5 inch (47 cm) bead sight barrel. The .410 bore, while by far the least powerful common shotgun chambering, still generates energy in excess of a .357 Magnum, and the spreader choke produces wider patterns in the short ranges to be expected in a defensive situation. This model is targeted at the novice user, who needs a simple, easy to use yet effective defensive weapon, and is packaged with an introductory video covering use and safety.


Here is a link to a pic and some specs:

http://www.triggerfin.com/index.asp?...PROD&ProdID=95

Would this actually be a good choice for an adult, to build confidence and skill?

Is this a quality gun? Effective/reliable?
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Old December 1, 2006, 08:32 PM   #2
jhgreasemonkey
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Yeah that'll work its a mossberg and those are decent quality. I would personaly use slugs in a .410. Keep in mind the youth model has a smaller stock and if you are big it wont fit you too well. Also if you want to shop around try www.budsgunshop.com they have a ton of mossberg shotguns around $200-$300.
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Old December 1, 2006, 08:35 PM   #3
Syntax360
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If you are that worried about recoil, I would get a 20 gauge. I think it would be a much better choice for HD and won't rock you like a 12 gauge might.

Still, I would just go out on a limb and get a 12 gauge if I were you. It's really not that bad, especially if you have the right gun and stock. Plus, reduced recoil loads are available if you do think it's "that bad".
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Old December 1, 2006, 08:49 PM   #4
Mokumbear
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Well...

I guess it's more of a concern of the unknown and wanting to buy a model I will like, enjoy and what to keep.

I held this model at the gun shop:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/96471

To me, it felt unwieldy and too long/large to be comfortable...
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Old December 1, 2006, 11:53 PM   #5
dixierifleman
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they got one of those at a gun shop i got my mossberg 500 at. i liked it it handled nice. but i already had a 410 single shot so i got the 12 gauge.
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Old December 2, 2006, 12:42 AM   #6
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I've got an FN Police which is the same as a Winchester 1300 Defender. It has an alloy receiver and is a full pound lighter than a Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870 and is a much better fit for me. As far as length, the length of the one you held is as short as it gets without a special permit from the ATF.
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Old December 2, 2006, 05:19 AM   #7
Daves-got-guns
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i like my mossberg 12 gauge for home defense, even with a 3" in the magazine. I have heard of 1 case on another forum of a teenager defending his house with a .410 and killed the bg with one shot to the chest, so home defense isnt too far fetched but i believe the 20 is the premier night time hd shotgun gauge. You can get plenty of power out of a 20 gauge, and kick is very mild atleast in a proper sized gun, and ammo for practice is right on par with 12 gauge ammo, atleast at the local wally world. For all of my friends i would say a 20 will do just dandy for home defense, and there are some good hunting applications too.
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Old December 2, 2006, 07:49 AM   #8
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Ok...

What exactly do you mean when you say "a properly sized gun"?

Being new to shotguns, I am clueless.
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Old December 2, 2006, 02:54 PM   #9
Syntax360
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The stock on most shotguns is too long for the average shooter. If the stock doesn't fit the shooter, you probably will not hold it right/stand right and won't shoot it as well as you could. Fitment is important.
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Old December 2, 2006, 05:54 PM   #10
Daves-got-guns
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the way ive been taught o measure up a shotgun, is to put it on ur bicep, roll ur arm around to the grip and without stretching your trigger finger should be comfortably on the trigger.
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Old December 6, 2006, 01:34 AM   #11
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i was just checking my mossberg 835 this way and its about a half inch short for me. I would say with'in 1 inch, either way of where your finger comes natural to with this method will do. Remington 870's, i believe but am not positive on their lop, are generally a inch or so shorter then 835s, not positive and i havent looked at the factory lop. After you shoot a shotgun for awhile you will get a feel for what lop you need naturally.
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Old December 6, 2006, 05:14 AM   #12
Diggers
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Getting back to your question. I think that .410 would be a fine HD gun. Its simple light, won't kick very much, will not be as loud as a 12 or 20 ga, and it will do the job.

Winchester makes the ammo you would want to use. Its a 3 inch shell with 000 buckshot. The shell has 5 pellets in it. I figured out the energy. Each pellet has about 212 foot pounds of energy, this just a little bit less than the .38 special has.

That is 5 pellets with 212 foot pound of energy EACH. I would say that would do the job just fine.

A lot of people think the .410 is not as powerful as other shotguns. Not true it just holds less shot.

I would not use a slug, if you did that you might as well get a rifle. The 000 would be much more effective and the gun is made for shot based on it having a special spreader choke. (what ever that its)

Just know that even with buckshot you still have to aim. At HD ranges you would be lucky to have the shot spread out into a foot wide pattern.
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Old December 6, 2006, 12:15 PM   #13
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That guns a marketing scam if there ever was one. The choke guaranties all pellets will not be on target and even if they were do you think they would reach the vitals? Its as if they asked an expert what the least effective defensive shotgun would be and built it. A tiny amount of pellets spread far apart is the complete opposite of what you need. I'd rather use a knife honestly.
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Old December 6, 2006, 02:18 PM   #14
Diggers
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I think thats being pretty extreem Timothy. 5 pellets at 212 foot pounds each is nothing to laugh down the barrel at.
That is plenty of power, and the choke isn't going to be able spread pellets out at HD range much. If it could I think it would be a good thing. At HD ranges all the shot tends to be in one lump. This ofcourse isn't what you want shot to do, the POINT of shot is that it spreads out.

Also its only 3 less pellets than a 12 ga has.

That gun would work fine for HD

People always go to extreems with this stuff. Plenty of people have been stoped with the puny .22.
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Old December 6, 2006, 06:30 PM   #15
Daves-got-guns
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yeah it has 3 less pellets then a standard 12 gauge load. 3" loads have 3 times more then that winchester 3" .410. I won't knock the .410 for home defense, cause i have heard of one case with a kid using the .410 as home defense, shot and killed the bad guy dead on the spot. For a affordable "throwaway gun" you probably can't beat the .410. Just like any service pistol its where you shoot that counts the most, and he will get by very well with this. My thinking is if it has killed deer, it will stop a person from attacking.
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Old December 8, 2006, 02:45 PM   #16
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I actually have this shotgun, and we do use it in our home as a defensive weapon. My wife is 5'3" and weighs barely 100 lbs, so this is actually a perfect gun for her. It's cheap to shoot which means in turn she has practiced with it (and practice as much as anything is crucial in defense), the smaller size of the shotgun and caliber are ideal for a smaller person, and most importantly she feels both confortable and confident in her ability to use it as a home defense weapon.

Also, one thing I consider to be of great importance with any defensive firearm is that one will be able to fire multiple controlled shots if necessary. And with this shotgun, its nice to know that my wife can easily follow up an initial discharge with additional shots both quickly and accurately. A 12-Gauge is a more powerful round of course, but for our situation it sort of goes back to that old adage of a .22 in the hand being better than a .45 in the gun safe.
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Old December 8, 2006, 03:01 PM   #17
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I have the Mossberg 500 persuader with pistol grip and folding stock loaded with 3" 00 buckshot for hd use. Yes it has some hefty recoil, however in a life or death situation I have no doubts that the recoil will not even be on my mind, adrenalin would surely take over, I'll worry about the sore shoulder later. Not to say that the 410 couldn't do the job equally, but unless we get to shoot some deserving people with each we just won't really know will we? I prefer maximum firepower in a hd shotgun just so i know there is no question that the bg is going down as long as I hit him, although I'd rather use my pistol if possible, to minimize damage to my house!
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Old December 8, 2006, 06:13 PM   #18
akr
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When your life is at stake, particularly at night in a panic situation, I would rather NOT have a .410.......maybe a 20 ga would be better for you.
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Old December 9, 2006, 07:44 AM   #19
Daves-got-guns
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opinions, opinions. Fact is a .22 will kill a man, hell a bb gun will kill a man but thats stretchin it. Sure i could get a 12 gauge with 3.5 00 or maybe triple ought buck loads that hit as hard as a 10 gauge but why? why excessive recoil without the big gain in power? unless you are a ****-pour shot and your just gonna point the gun in the general degree of where the bgis then, why all the excessive shot? 2 3/4 standard loads in 12 are fine, and time and time again have proved their merits in the usual home defense ranges. I would rather be able to get 2 standard 2 3/4 loads delivered on target, then dump a barrel of 3.5 or even 3" loads in the general direction, and muzzle blast with a 12 guage is horrendous in closed areas as it is, and those loads will damn near knock you out in home defense situation from the percussion witch is gonan be messy. If you think your 3" loads are gonna do it for you in the house, goto a confined area, you can try the gun range but i doubt they'll let you do this, take off your ear muffs or w/e you got for protection and just dump 1 3" load and tell me how that goes. I guarentee in a self defensive situation you will not have hearing protection, and if you have time to put hearing protection then your situation probably isnt that serious. .410 is fine for a self defense load, even though it is pushing the envelope of comfort, if i had to i would use that, and find the BEST load that anybody makes witch so far seems to be the winchester load.
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Old December 16, 2006, 11:07 PM   #20
auburnboattail
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home defense

410 handles well, not enough knockdown for me.
Ideally 20gauge is perfect light handles well. Again I like more knock down.
I choose 12 gauge simply for knock down, pattern ,and I have been shooting for 40 years and am comfortable with a gun I have been shooting since I was a boy.
The gun is an extension of my body and I have total condidence in it and my ability with it. It is comfortable, I use an old Winchester model 12 with short barrel. The old models do not require trigger release after shooting and can be shot as fast as one can pump and has great magazine capacity.

Key to defense is dependable, accessable easy to use firerm
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